Hey Tape Fans...

[Anderton]

In the Pro Review I'm doing of the Universal Audio powered plug-ins, I'm checking out the Studer A800 plug-in and post #33 gets heavily into bias, EQ, sel-sync, and a bunch of other tape-related concepts. Forumites who weren't around back then might find the trip down technology memory lane interesting. And Mike Rivers (who invented recording on stone tablets, which led directly to the invention of recording on tape), might find some errors and correct me, thus adding to the post's value.

[Anderton]

I should also mention...the next posts will have audio examples.

[Beck]

"I had the right to remain silent... but I didn't have the ability"

~Ron White

 

Eh... yeah I can do it... bite my tongue on this one. Ok, I will say the graphics for the UA plugs are cute and the background info is good. Other than that... well ok... Godspeed!

[MikeRivers]

 

I'm checking out the Studer A800 plug-in and post #33 gets heavily into bias, EQ, sel-sync, and a bunch of other tape-related concepts.

 

 

I'm waiting for them to do a plug-in simulator for the Recordgraph. Be sure to read the original article linked at the end of the description of the new player.

[Jeff da Weasel]

I should also mention...the next posts will have audio examples.

 

Ooh!

[ggm1960]

I've had the UAD PCMCIA model for a while now but only recently have I finally tried one of the default plug-ins (the LA2A I think) on some bass I recorded. I fully expect to buy some of the other plug-ins at some point but that tape emulator isn't high on my list.

[Bookumdano2]

Lots of UAD Studer reviews and discussions on the planet. MAJOR REQUEST TO MAKE THIS ONE DIFFERENT ......

 

Post all the before/after demos you want .. BUT ... also, get actual TAPE audio demo in there too as your THIRD comparison.. So you'd have...

 

1.daw with plug on the track

2. daw without the plug on the track... and most importantly...

3.daw track run through an actual tape reorder and back into the track... any reel to reel recorder.. anything 1/4", 1/2", 1", 2".. Studer or not.

 

And for gawdsakes, not a mix. Just individual instruments or vocals.

 

This then does four things.

1. It lets the kids who have no clue of real tape sound get SOME kind of bearing.

2. It promotes conversation as to the differences or not of THIS plug compared to something in the neighborhood of the real thing

3. It lets those of us with tape machines who are too lazy to run our own tests take a listen

4. It opens a good five years of heated arguments over which REAL tape recorder you shoulda used for the real thing, which tape, which bias settings, which speeds (but we don't care about that)

 

Just my opinion. I fully plan on getting the UAD at some future time for the EMT stuff. Not real eager to to that yet, but I will. And I'll probably get the Studer plugin then too so that I can a/b it myself with the tape machines here to see if/how I like it .

 

But for major real reviews, until this sort of review is done with REAL tape in the test as the third point of reference on demos, the Studer UAD reviews around are not really about whether this plug has anything to do with tape, but rather, whether or not it's just a cool plug.

 

Every single conversation/ad I've seen so far for this thing is "it gives you tape sound"... I sometimes ask those who say that ... "do you mean you've compared this to your tape machine"? And the answer is generally "no, I don't have a tape machine". Or.. "no, but I was around tape machines 86 years ago".

 

So... no way to know if this resembles a tape machine until someome actually puts it up against a tape machine with demos.

 

Have I over-stated my worthless point long enough yet?

[temnov]

Hey Craig, very good review, thank you very much!

 

I use UAD cards on all my mixes and I found the sound of Studer A800 plug-in is very useful on drums and bass. I also use the combination of Studer A800 plug-in on single tracks and Waves MPX on busses, that creates a really fat sound. And if you play with the speed of tape you can find really nice highs, not harsh and not brittle but rather "silky" in character.

 

I think you should mention Fatso Jr. in your review, too.

[temnov]

 

Have I over-stated my worthless point long enough yet?

 

 

Here is some samples from soundonsound:

 

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar11/articles/uadaudio.htm

 

I'm sure Craig will provide his as well. I really liked the way Craig reviewed A800, it is very thorough.

[Anderton]

Lots of UAD Studer reviews and discussions on the planet. MAJOR REQUEST TO MAKE THIS ONE DIFFERENT ...... Post all the before/after demos you want .. BUT ... also, get actual TAPE audio demo in there too as your THIRD comparison.

 

If I had a tape machine set up, I could do that...my two-track might still be working, I'll have to find out. Then I'd have to find a reel of tape...problem is it's a TASCAM Model 32 that bears no sonic resemblance to an A800.

 

But as Tenmov has given a link to audio examples of sounds using tape, the pressure's off For other examples of sounds recorded on tape, listen to any music recorded before about 1972! FYI I intend to do only solo sounds for example, not mixes.

 

Now, about whether it really sounds like tape or not...I actually wonder how important that is, compared to whether it's just a plug-in that makes cool sounds. If someone likes how it sounds, it doesn't matter whether it sounds like tape or not and if they don't like it, it doesn't matter if it sounds like tape or not. I understand it would be nice to be able to grade UA on how good a job they did, but like I said, I have to get my Model 32 set up first...and find the head cleaner...and the demagnetizer...

 

It's like the Slate Virtual Console Collection. I don't have a $250,000 console here to do an A/B, so all that really counted to me was did the plug-in improve the sound, for whatever reason. I think it does improve the sound, but is it because it sounds like a Neve, or something other reason? I just like what it does to the sound.

[Anderton]

Hey! I just realized...I have the Freshtones loop library of drum loops and such recorded exclusively to analog tape. Would that work?

 

Also, why aren't these comments being posted in the review itself ?

 

Finally...with UAD plugs, you can download a demo version and play with it for 15 days. So, you can compare to tape without paying for it.

[Bookumdano2]

...problem is it's a TASCAM Model 32 that bears no sonic resemblance to an A800..."

 

hahaha.. find some tape and post it that way. Maybe a billion people will gasp with joy at the sound and UAD will then have to model a bunch of Tascam stuff next. Buncha little 3340 plugins spinning on the screen.

 

I like your review so far. I'll post at the review area too once you get to the emt stuff.

 

I just can't get into moving to UAD on Macs. I use Macs. I don't like them. That's the way it will always be. As UAD starts getting more windows friendly via firewire or thunderbolt, that's probably when I'll invest.

[Anderton]

 

I just can't get into moving to UAD on Macs. I use Macs. I don't like them. That's the way it will always be. As UAD starts getting more windows friendly via firewire or thunderbolt, that's probably when I'll invest.

 

 

I've been using UAD on my Windows machine, with the PCI card. But the Satellite works only on the Mac at the moment.

 

UA says there's too much variance in Windows FireWire interfaces to guarantee performance. I said "Why not just say 'you have to use this FireWire interface card or we won't support it'"? But I guess if you have to use a card to interface with the Satellite, you might as well just get a UAD card in the first place unless you're cross-platform and want to be able to use the plugs on both without having to rip cards out.

[veracohr]

 

I just can't get into moving to UAD on Macs. I use Macs. I don't like them. That's the way it will always be. As UAD starts getting more windows friendly via firewire or thunderbolt, that's probably when I'll invest.

 

 

This doesn't make sense to me. You're willing to use UAD, and you use Macs, but you're not willing to use UAD on Macs? And why use Macs if you don't like them?

[techristian]

Has anyone done a plugin for WOW & FLUTTER ?

 

I miss that.

 

I also miss the sound of a cassette tape wrapping around the capstan !

 

Dan

[Bookumdano2]

 

This doesn't make sense to me. You're willing to use UAD, and you use Macs, but you're not willing to use UAD on Macs? And why use Macs if you don't like them?

 

 

Where I was raised, it's impolite to ask how much someone makes, what their religion is, or why they don't like Macs. But since we're a nice , small dysfunctional famliy here who don't mind putting each other down, I use Macs for lots of biz stuff (where there's only a Mac version) and not at all for music stuff, except for a program called Isolate.

 

And while we're at it, I'm starting to not like my tube mics either. I'm seriously thinking of buying an sm7b

[temnov]

 

Has anyone done a plugin for WOW & FLUTTER

 

 

Waves - MPX Master Tape http://www.waves.com/content.aspx?id=11702

[MikeRivers]

 

Now, about whether it really sounds like tape or not...I actually wonder how important that is, compared to whether it's just a plug-in that makes cool sounds. If someone likes how it sounds, it doesn't matter whether it sounds like tape or not and if they don't like it, it doesn't matter if it sounds like tape or not.

 

 

My point, exactly (if I even bothered to make that point). There is no "tape" sound. Tape can sound like a lot of different things. And for what most people want when they say they want that warm analog tape sound, your TASCAM 32 will do fine. After all, people use machines like that (and worse) as signal processors now.

 

 

UA says there's too much variance in Windows FireWire interfaces to guarantee performance. I said "Why not just say 'you have to use this FireWire interface card or we won't support it'"?

 

 

No sooner do they qualify a card than the manufacturer will discontinue or change it. If they want to buy a stock of cards that they know work and then sell them, that would work (until they run out of cards and have to find another one that works). But that's not the business they're in.

[MikeRivers]

 

Has anyone done a plugin for WOW & FLUTTER ?

 

 

Somebody, I think Steinberg/Yamaha had a tape plug-in with a flutter control. The Waves (a)MP(e)X plug-in also has wow and flutter, and noise, too. It's an Ampex 350 deck with 351 electronics.

[Jeff da Weasel]

Has anyone done a plugin for WOW & FLUTTER ?

 

Of course they have.

[the stranger]

I love the smell of analog tape in the morning.

 

I do think there is a "tape" sound. I read in a Tape Op interview and it makes the most sense...as far as limiting goes, tape does it better. This engineer said it was tape's limiting characteristics that made him prefer it. Considering how hard I liked to hit tape, I think he pegged it. The more you push it, the more it limits. So, instead of "warm and punchy", you could come up with a more accurate way to describe what the tape sound is based on what's happening when you use it...like "hard limited and pleasantly distorted"...I even think you could work "smearish and gluing" into it.

 

A little tape and a real plate reverb and hit-city here we come!

 

The more I think about it, I think the analog console isn't getting a fair shake in this whole analog vs digital equation. It always comes back to tape, but a good console probably does more to shape the sound than anything.

 

I read a review for an API 1608 and it sounded like the be-all-end-all to me. An analog console with channel strips that accept 500 series modules. This is a serious machine. Etc...drool...

 

And what's going to sound better?

 

1. Record and mix with a Mackie mixer with a Studer.

 

2. Record and mix using the API configured accordingly into a digital medium.

 

Which will sound better, 1 or 2?

[MikeRivers]

I read in a Tape Op interview and it makes the most sense...as far as limiting goes, tape does it better. This engineer said it was tape's limiting characteristics that made him prefer it. Considering how hard I liked to hit tape, I think he pegged it. The more you push it, the more it limits.

 

Well, maybe so, until things just go to pot. There may be occasions where this is appropriate, but remember, not everyone records music that sounds better when processed that way. Not all music has to smack you in the face until you puke all the time.

 

We got away from tape because we wanted to have more dynamic range. Now we have so much dynamic range that we need to compress and limit so we can actually listen to the music. Are you implying that our compressors and limiters don't do as good a job as the tape along with which they coexisted for 40 years?

 

No, I think that what people are looking for today with things like tape simulators is an exaggerated version of what we didn't like about tape.

 

So, instead of "warm and punchy", you could come up with a more accurate way to describe what the tape sound is based on what's happening when you use it...like "hard limited and pleasantly distorted"...I even think you could work "smearish and gluing" into it.

 

There's nothing pleasant about distortion. It makes music sound more aggressive. That's not pleasant, but it does grab your attention. But then, so does a good melody and good lyrics.

 

The more I think about it, I think the analog console isn't getting a fair shake in this whole analog vs digital equation. It always comes back to tape, but a good console probably does more to shape the sound than anything.

 

How about a good engineer? And a good artist and producer? Tools help, but they don't make or break a hit.

 

I read a review for an API 1608 and it sounded like the be-all-end-all to me. An analog console with channel strips that accept 500 series modules. This is a serious machine. Etc...drool...

 

It's today's version of a larger and more expensive console that was built around what became 500 series modules. Still out of reach for most of the people recording music today.

 

And what's going to sound better? 1. Record and mix with a Mackie mixer with a Studer. 2. Record and mix using the API configured accordingly into a digital medium. Which will sound better, 1 or 2?

 

It depends on what you're recording, what your criteria for "sound better" is, and whether the person operating the gear knows what he's doing and is in tune with what you think sounds better. But for people who like distortion, I'll bet the Mackie/Studio combination would sound better. Mackie mixers, when used properly, can be pretty transparent, and can put out enough level to hit that Studer as hard as you want. An API console can offer more interesting sounding mic preamps, but as a mixer, it's nice and clean, with a very solid sound overall.

 

If you wanted it to sound like tape, you'd still need tape or a good emulator of what you like about the tape sound. If you wanted it to sound clean with a little character, then the API/DAW combination with converters that are of the same caliber as the API is probably the way to go. But if you don't have the money for that, you'd better have a damn good song and good arrangement.

 

A video that goes viral would help more than anything else.

[Anderton]

 

There's nothing pleasant about distortion. It makes music sound more aggressive. That's not pleasant, but it does grab your attention. But then, so does a good melody and good lyrics.

 

 

I'm not familiar with the good melody and good lyrics plug-in. Is that from PSP Audioware or some other smaller company?

[Anderton]

 

Has anyone done a plugin for WOW & FLUTTER ?

 

 

Make your own...

 

Get a chorus plug-in and narrow it down to one voice.

Set balance for wet sound only.

Modulate the delay. Now you have vibrato.

Use automation to vary the delay and vibrato rate.

 

Bingo! Wow and flutter!

[MikeRivers]

 

Get a chorus plug-in and narrow it down to one voice. Set balance for wet sound only. Modulate the delay. Now you have vibrato. Use automation to vary the delay and vibrato rate.

 

 

I rememember reading in some scholarly publication that we don't have wow any more, it's all flutter, but the term now carries the full range of modulation speed. What used to be wow is now just slow flutter. Slow flutter (wow) tends to be periodic so you don't need to vary the vibrato rate.

 

There's another type of flutter that's sometimes called scrape flutter. This is a high frequency amplitude modulation that results from the tape bouncing up and down as it scrapes across the face of the heads and guides. It's a subtle kind of distortion that's not electronic but it's really obvious when it's reduced by careful cleaning and mechanical alignment. The Waves Ampex-modeled plug-in includes scrape flutter since it's common (and tricky to fix) on the Ampex 350 and their advisers considered it to be a part of the recorder's sound.