Monitor Mayhem...

As some of you who read my blog know, to my profound disgust, one of my beloved ADAM P11a monitors died over the weekend. The internal amps were both distorting and crackling horribly, rendering it completely useless. I was so furious at first as this was the last thing I needed while in the midst of mixing the new album. In the end, I suppose I figure I did okay, getting almost seven years out of the ADAMs. I'll most probably get the faulty one repaired if I can find a decent tech in the area without a months-long waiting list but, in the meantime, I desperately needed new monitors.

I spent most of Saturday at my local Banjo Shack inflicting an entire CD's worth of my rough mixes on two very patient sales guys. Unfortunately, my budget was only about half of what it was when I got my ADAMs so I had to be extremely thrifty as well as critical.

I had almost settled on a pair of KRK VXT 8s but every one of the four units I tested had some weird flaw - a silent tweeter, a fluttery woofer, an intermittent high-pitched whine, etc. It has completely soured me on KRK as a brand. Shame, because the VXT 8s looked to be a perfect fit.

The M-audios I tested colored the midrange too much, the JBLs had too many "bells and whistles" adding much to the cost and little to their functionality, the Events were too colored, the Mackies weren't in stock, etc...

My final choice was a bit of a revelation for me. After hours of listening and re-listening, I finally ended up settling on a pair of Yamaha HS80M monitors. I had been prepared not to like these as Yamaha modeled their aesthetics on their famous NS10 grotboxes, white woofers and all. Sound-wise though, they were a welcome surprise with a very flat response and nicely revealing of the subtle flaws in my test mixes. At less than $400 a piece, the price was seriously too good to be true - especially considering the sound quality. Suffice to say, I left with two largish boxes on a hand truck.

So far these HS80Ms have been perfectly lovely in the studio, much better than I had hoped in fact! Working with them has been an absolutely painless process. They're not overbright and the response seems very flat all the way down into the lower bass regions. I hate to admit it but, in some ways, these are more helpful to me than the ADAMs have been. Placement of instruments in the stereo field seems more accurate and the bass extension seems more detailed, allowing me to fit "bassy" instruments together better with less overlap.

The HS80Ms have a slightly more "forward" or "aggressive" sound than the ADAMs but, so far, haven't been fatiguing, even during long mixing sessions. The "sweet spot" is a lot wider than what I've grown used to as well. I've had a chance the last few days to remix a number of my tracks and check their translation on other systems and have been getting astonishing results! We'll see how these "budget" monitors hold up but, so far, I'm completely floored by the quality/price ratio on these things. I'm even starting to get used to the ugly white woofers.

Congrats on the new monitors! Not too surprised that you're happy with them though, considering the NS-10 legacy. They weren't the industry standard near-fields for nothing.

Congrats on the new monitors! Not too surprised that you're happy with them though, considering the NS-10 legacy. They weren't the industry standard near-fields for nothing.

Indeed. Though I've noticed many people forget the NS10s weren't particularly "good" monitors in many ways but served a very specific purpose as secondaries (to test translation), much like the Pyramids, Auratones or the modern Avantone clones. Hardly anybody ever mixed on NS10s alone. The old adage "if it sounds good on an NS10, it will sound good anywhere" was more properly about the speaker's limitations than its strengths...funnily, the NS10s specific limitations were its strength.

The HS80Ms have the bass extension the NS10s lack and have, to my ears, a flatter response and a much less fatiguing sound. This is kind of why I was so completely surprised - not so much by the similarities to the NS10s (which definitely are there) but the welcome differences.

I'm still planning on fixing my broken ADAM at some point but I plan to keep using the Yamahas as well.

cool to hear an Adam user impressed by them. I ALMOST went Adam and then went YAM cuz they sounded great to me and saved a bundle. Still love mine. Although nothing like the NS10, they are building their own new following and I feel are overlooked and underrated. I can't think of one review that said anything bad about them. Except this one guy who thought some lesser monitors sounded better... but.... yeah. I did months of research and listening before snagging the 80s, and haven't looked back since.

Does db still rep for Adam? I may have him confused with another forumite. If so, maybe they can recommend a tech in your area if they know of one. Good to know about the Yamaha's. I figure my M-Audio BX-8's are about due too. I've had them about as long as you had your Adam's. I was kinda planning on Mackie's if and when they go, but now I'll be sure to give the Yamahas a test drive.

Yeah, there was a bit of a falling out. I think Dave is with Summit Audio now...another company with drool-worthy gear.

respect Carbon

thanks for the healthy review - curious if we were to ask you in 3 months if you still are at peace with the timbre of the Yamahas . . .

Congrats, James

and your experience reaffirms what I've experienced myself a few times... sometimes it's refreshing to get a different set of speakers - it will give you a new approach to listening and mixing.

How's the bass on the Yamaha though? I thought I read some reviews that said those speakers were "too bassy" on the 80 model (not on the 50)

Grats! I ordered a pair of Yamaha MSP7 Studios recently, and as reported on GS discovered that one had a farty woofer. The replacement was just shipped today as they were back-ordered. I did a lot of reading before deciding on these and learned about the famous NS10's which were apparently hi-fi audio speakers and not specifically designed to be used as studio monitors.

Interesting I also have a set of VXT6's that I use for my digital piano, and one of the original set had a fuzzy sound to it right out of the box (exchanged it right away). Now one or both of the monitors are having some weird fuzziness that happens when certain frequencies or groups of notes are paired. I have been listening and testing just the last couple of days to try to figure out what to tell customer support at KRK. This is definitely not right and also not a problem the monitors had to start with.

Love my HS-80ms, which I've had for almost two years ... (Got them for $250 a piece at GC when they were first introduced ... )

They really give you the good, bad and ugly of your mixes ... I love that they force you to MAKE your music sound better ...

Paolo ... My experience with HS-80ms is that they're not at all too bassy ... in fact, almost the opposite ... It's actually one of the aspects that's got me wondering as I'm mixing my first alb on them and wondering how that's going to work out ... However, this project (electronic cabaret) is not that concerned with bass so I'm not pushing it anyway ...

You can spend a lot more on monitors, imo ... But you can't spend any less and get the same quality and honesty ... Everything else below it seems too coloured and bassy for my taste (and lacksing the detail in mids and highs) ... Sometimes, HS-80ms are sort of brutal, imo ... (for instance, streamed MP3s are almost unlistenable in my book) ... But I like that ...

Of course, I got them for the price of BX8as ... so it's really hard to complain ... Even at $400, though, I still think they're worth it ...

However, I'd also love a pair of VXT6s if I could ... As much as I dislike Rokits, I really like those ...

Ladies and Germs, Meet James/Carbon- The Yamaha Corp. newest spokesperson.

really, you just need to stop.

this reminds me ... i was watching The Greatest American Hero on DVD the other day (i scored it for 15 dollars for the first 2 seasons) and there's a bunch of really crappy modern rock songs added in place of tunes that couldn't be used on the DVD for licensing reasons.

Agreed.

I've seen that done on other series releases too. Usually not very successfully.

"Believe it or not I'm walking on air..."

-1 ... This place needs a new crank ... We've got the Crunk ... !!!

WLECOME ... !!!

...................

Yeah ... Keep the HS-80ms away from the walls ... They sound MUCH better ...

qHZswzk0424

Interesting, I didn't like the Yamahas, but then I'm not a huge fan of the ADAM sound either (though I do think they make good monitors). I think the KRK V/VXT series do a better job of the mid-forward aggressive sort of sound the Yamahas do. Sorry to hear the quality of those has gone downhill though. I have a pair of V4's as second reference that have never had a problem. I really overall prefer Dynaudios or PMCs as monitors. I currently have the Digidesign RM2's & RM1's which were made by PMC. They have much better amps than most of the active monitor's I've used, and the ATL instead of ported design takes a bit of getting used to but works well for me.

-D

Interesting points.

FWIW - I would have walked out with a pair of the VXT8s if I could have found a flawless pair. The flaws weren't subtle at all.

Interesting about the Digidesign monitors - I was curious as to their pedigree. What exactly is ATL by the way? Another name for an infinite baffle (unported) design?

I should mention that they did have a pair of ADAM A7s there but, for whatever reason, they didn't speak to me...maybe partly because they were a bit too strident with the smallish woofers. Very agressive-sounding indeed - much more than the HS80Ms which I think hit a good "middle ground" between 'bright' and 'detailed' for me. Maybe I just finally got tired of the folded ribbon tweeters?

Rubbish

Yamaha only allow people with mangina's to be their spokesperson

REPORTED

Congrats. I've had my HS80Ms since they came out and still luv'um. I have been though a lot of monitors and even had a pair of NS10Ms for a while. The lack of bass is what caused me to sell the NS10Ms. They are great for mixing but, not the best for everyday song writing. Enter the HS80Ms. IMHO. They are very similar sounding to NS10Ms but, have a lower bass response because of the 8" woofer. They are a bit forward in the mids like NS10Ms which cause you to mix the mids back a little. This causes your mixes to have slightly scooped mids which seem to help them translate on other speakers more accurately. Enjoy.

Blasphemy! A significant fraction of the appeal of old shows and movies is the music. Then again, you knew that right?

I just remembered a bad review: a guy over in RECORDING forum wanted to ditch his after 3 months due to their "harsh" sound. When pressed about the circumstances, if I recall, the room was odd and he had needed to adjust the room EQ switches on the back and that seemed to make them fine. I'm sumerizing but I think that is what it was.

A side note, I usually run a cheap version of a Real Time Analyzer+Ref mic when I move my HS80s to a new room and in most cases, I end up with a 2k dip which is at the crossover point I think. There is a switch on the back that boosts that and sometimes I use use it, sometimes not. Using a flat sound source, and the mic that is about +/-1, these speakers are NOT flat. yet work great

...and compared to the rest of the Yamaha HS line:

As I mentioned, the HS80Ms aren't razor-flat but they're relatively flat compared to many monitors...especially at this price point.

There are a couple "areas of concern" but nothing serious IMO. One good thing is they dont have the big bump centered around 2K that the NS10s exhibit.

Bottom line: The HS80Ms work well with my ears...which is the main thing.

Frequency plots can only take you so far though...

It can be easy to forget the response can be altered very drastically depending on room acoustics, room treatment, physical monitor decoupling, on/off axis listening and monitor placement.

Unfortunately (or fortunately!) none of us has an anechoic chamber for a studio.

Consequently, in the real world, frequency plots can be as useful as a chocolate lawnmower...which is why many monitor and mic manufacturers don't publish them.

Best thing to do with any monitor is to run a series of test tones in your room and see if there are any "problem areas" that can be addressed either by tweaking the room or the monitor. IMHO, it's best to leave the monitor flat/untweaked and fix the room.