Taming peaks on a DAW?

I run my bass player's bass through a bass amp, (how many times can I say 'bass' in one sentence?) and into the mixer.

For some reason, the bass track clips the DAW every so often for no apparent reason. He isn't playing louder, or doing anything wierd that I can tell. The waveform looks tame, but all of the sudden "BAM!", it peaks hard.

Anyway, is there a way I can tame this kind of stuff before the DAW records it? Is it possible to put a limiter on the track in Cubase PRE-record?

Any ideas why this may be happening?

My guess is that the meters aren't picking everything up. They don't, you know.

You can use a hardware compressor beforehand, intonate the bass better, get the bass player to play more evenly, back the mic off the bass amp slightly, use a compressor between the bass and the amp, make sure there aren't odd resonances in the room that you are recording and move the amp/mic or use acoustic treatment, see if there are resonances and addressing them with EQ on the amp or before the recorder, etc.

Hopefully I'm understanding this properly and that it's not a software glitch.

I'm not micing the bass amp, I'm using the direct out of the amp into the mixer.

Turn down the bass input into the soundcard

My gut tells me it's a performance issue. As a bassist myself, I know how easy it is to "clack" the string when I'm in the moment. That can translate into an ugly peak. Short of having the player adjust his technique, using a limiter will solve this problem. A good cheapo to be found on eBay for next to nothing is the Alesis Micro Limiter. It has a great, ballsy sound to it. The FMR is supposed to by very nice for those with limited finds. Something like the Aphex Punch Factory can actually make this situation worse because of it's slow attack which accentuates the transient.

Is the peak a clack or a boomy resonance?

The only thing is, the signal is not that hot. If I turn it down anymore, I won't be getting a useable recording. Which is why it's wierd that I'm getting all these crazy peaks. I'm recording the lead guitar the same way, and it never does that.

Clack.

Is it possible to use a limiter on the DAW?

No. You need hardware pre-converter. Check the Micro Limiter on eBay. That is your answer. Or... do he have an amp with a compressor in it? Those frequently are designed for this issue. And just as frequently they suck. Check it out with a direct out from the amp and see how that works for you too.

Here you go. Like I said, for next to nothing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ALESIS-MICRO-LIMITER_W0QQitemZ180142912613QQihZ008QQcategoryZ23793QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Cool, I'll check that out! Thanks.

I just noticed... the one I linked here doesn't have a power supply. Hard to find too. If you grab one, and there are a few there, check for the PS.

you might check your signal flow, running from the direct out to the mixer [what mixer?]... sounds like you are {censored}ting out the pre/line in on the mixer to me, especially if it is a low note he is hitting. also are you able to make it happen at will or is it random?? if its random, there might be a whole other issue.

there are a load of things to check before slapping a limiter on there. your peaks SHOULD be around -12dbFS at most. past that you arent getting anything extra. if you are running higher than that, you could be clipping your ADC.

Gotcha. A few of my suggestions will still work (intonating the bass, getting the bass player to play more evenly, putting a compressor between the bass and the amp or before the converters, looking for resonances and EQing them, etc.).

I personally like FMR RNCs for basses, using them either in Super Nice Mode (my favorite for basses) or Regular Mode, which works well also.

Regardless, you should turn down the input into your DAW, and then using your DAW, compress it and turn it up afterwards. If you are getting peaks, then clearly something needs to be turned down.

Excellent points. I glossed over the mixer info...

I had a bass player who used to use a pick and the pick hit a pickup when he played. Didn't know what it was ti I watched him closely

Excellent points.

(whooops, Lee beat me to the "excellent points" comment!! )

That was the first thing I thought of, or something along those lines.

There is a cheaper compressor still, free actually.

The speaker in the bass amp!

Mike it!

While you guys are on this subject, how "hot" should the bass be recorded? As the original poster pointed out, bass tends to peak(in my case it is becuase the bass player is beating certain strings and odd time for no apperent reason!) so I have been recording it fairly low.

Pointers?

DI bass can have nasty transient peaks -- although running it through an amp should help smooth things somewhat, depending on how much saturation you're achieving.

As others have no doubt noted, VU-type meters are NOT set up to reflect transients. VU meters were designed for telephony initially and not recording. But no mechanical meter can ever hope to capture the range of transient peaks potentially created by real world instruments.

That's why it's important to monitor your AD unit's peak meters or to keep an eye on your DAW's peak metering.

It's certainly true that there are those so accustomed to VU weighted meter ballistics that they have trouble adapting to modern peak metering -- but take it from someone whose recording roots go back to the early 60s but who has been recording digitally for a decade and a half (more counting mixdown): peak metering is your friend. Learn how to use it.

Absolutely. I always mic my bass amps, rarely going direct. Sounds so much better to my ears.

If I went direct, unless the bass player were a very consistent, professional quality player with a well-intonated bass, you can be sure that I'd have a compressor before the signal hits the converters. Typically much more dynamics going direct.

Peaks no higher than about -12dB. No reason to crank it. Better too low than too high.

I'd bet on that.

I know a bass player who would play with an SVT basically on 10, regardless of where he was playing. He'd control his volume by touch....

I once tried to play through his rig, and it was ridiculously hard to keep an even volume - which was this guy's forte and style. I'd guess this guy is leaning in that direction, but isn't there yet.

/ this guy could also play steady 1/8th notes at any tempo, and make a meter read exactly where you asked him to put it -3 db, 0db, whatever - and it would stay there the whole song, sans compressor....