Andrew Lloyd Webber weighs in on file sharing...

[AluminumNeck]

First off no new artists get a cut anywhere near that deal. Secondly No bands I know and I know a few make money selling records.

Yes I would be happy to see a dynamic shift in the music distrobution scheme. I am happy for the artist and privateer studios who are busting ass and putting out good material.

Also with the initial setup costs that most reord labels smack bands with if they don;t tour they don't make any $$$.

I really don't care to hear this bull{censored} any longer. There are so many artists that got {censored}ed by a record company its disgusting.

Have you ever had a record deal? Have you ever sold a million CD's? Have you ever personally known someone who has? Here is some research for you: If you sell a million CD's with 12 tracks that you actually wrote at half of the current per song royalty rate (minus publishing) you would net over a half a million dollars. If you sold a million copies it means that your CD was getting heavy radio play which could easily mean another half a million dollars or more. Now much depends on the kind of deal you have, how much front money you got, how much the label invested in producing, promoting, and distributing your music. If you are someone like Kid Rock who has his own label deal and is in his fifth record of that deal you make a lot. If you are Rihana and you are in the first record of a crappy deal you won't make as much. So to answer your question; your math is whack and yes you do make a big chunk of cash from million seller if you are the writer and you made a good deal with your label to begin with. Well I hope you know more about medicine than you do about the music business, but a pimple on someones ass rarely results in their death.

 

[Jotown]

I really don't care to hear this bull{censored} any longer. There are so many artists that got {censored}ed by a record company its disgusting.

So when somone confronts you with facts that go against your imaginary theory of how the record biz works its "Bull{censored}" and you don't want to hear it.

That is exactly why you don't really know what you talking about.

Yes the record biz sucks. Yes there is a lot wrong with it. But destroying the structure that allows artists to get paid at all for their work fixes nothing and is ruining an industry and an art form.

But I know. That Bull{censored}; right? Everybody should be able to steal anyones work just becuase they want it. I mean its only fair. Right?

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[AluminumNeck]

I really don't give 2 {censored}s about what kid rock has to say. I am not condoning stealing. I am saying that the end of the record companies is not a bad thing. Its a good thing. who employees more people ? small bussiness or large corporations ?

How many musicians can no longer make a living as entertainers on a local level becuase of the Music Industry ?

There was a time when talented musicinas got paid for the efforts they put forth and made a decent living.

Secondly if a record companie sells a million records at a wholesale cost of roughly $3.85 per unit and the artist gets at best $0.50 on the record and the cost of production is maybe say $100k and then the cost per unit is $0.085 how can you not the see ludacricity of this ?

so lets extrapolate.

$3.85 per unit x 1million is 3.85 million dollars. We now subtract from that a gestimated cost of $5-7K per song on a 12 song LP figuring a 5-6 man rock band. These are average production costs in modern studios today using digital capture and an average time of 40hrs per son at 80 per hour plus mastering. Initial market exspense artwork and prints it work out to roughly 100k. Thats on the cheap side.

So we subtract 100K from 3.85 million.

Thats 3.84 million.

Now the artist on a 50 point deal at $0.01 per point is now getting 0.50 per record. so we subtract 500k from the 3.84 million leaving the record company with 3.34 million.

Now I know record companies spend money on marketing but who really does the marketing ? Lets thing about this.

Lets see the band travels. they pay all their exspense out of the 500k so that self funded. Then they go on tour where yet again they self fund that event sometime with label support.

Then there are the radio plays. The hidden genie in the bottle.

a local station in my area can play a song 15-20 a day 7 days a week on prime rotation for roughly $1000. Now add in say 120 markets and that where the money is.

so the record label spend $120k to hit 120 markets for a week. Now they know in about a week if something is gonna bomb but with proper market placement selling a million albums through a major well funded label is pretty {censored}ing easy.

So let review.

The record company spent lets be generous and say 1million dollars promoting producing and recording a band.

sold 3.85 million worth of product and then made a tidy 2 million dollar profit and the band got 500k ??

Ahh yeah. Thats slave wages relatively speaking. Considering the band wrote,created,performed,promoted and otherwise pressed flesh to sell 1 million records and most likely slept in a van, toured for 200+ days and played small dig for years to get there.

Sure I think its a great deal for maybe a one hit wonder for 500K to split against 5 guy. {censored} maybe one day I can hope to make 50k a year to. I will stick with my good paying day job.

 

[Dean Roddey]

whats it cost to press,print,package a CD ? $0.85 ? I used to work in duplication and printing. This is just plain common {censored}ing sense. The cost of a completed CD is under a $1.00. They were exspensive in 1982 becuase the technology was new. Someone had to pay for the tooling costs.

 

 

You aren't paying for the CD itself when you buy the CD. You are paying for the cost of producing the music that went on the CD, and the 85% failure rate of new acts. Just as you aren't paying for the cost of the actual DVD and it's creation, you are paying for the cost of making and promoting the movie itself.

 

So the cost of the CD or DVD itself is not really important, other than it's another buck that goes to cost instead of profit.

 

And yes, they were more expensive at the time, but because it's gotten cheaper, the price has not gone up, though inflation has, so they are effectively 2.5x times cheaper now, though the cost of making the music (at least at a high professional level) has gotten more expensive along with most everything else.

[Etienne Rambert]

"Lord Lloyd-Webber issued a clarion call on Thursday for a crackdown on illegal downloading as he attacked the internet as a

[AluminumNeck]

Well thats not really my problem nor should I have to pay for it. With this logic a car that costs 14k should cost 145k.

Common. The prudction cost os a 72 minute LP is peanuts and yes it far cheaper then it used to be considering hardly anyone uses tapes at $200 a reel.

You aren't paying for the CD itself when you buy the CD. You are paying for the cost of producing the music that went on the CD, and the 85% failure rate of new acts . Just as you aren't paying for the cost of the actual DVD and it's creation, you are paying for the cost of making and promoting the movie itself. So the cost of the CD or DVD itself is not really important, other than it's another buck that goes to cost instead of profit. And yes, they were more expensive at the time, but because it's gotten cheaper, the price has not gone up, though inflation has, so they are effectively 2.5x times cheaper now, though the cost of making the music (at least at a high professional level) has gotten more expensive along with most everything else.

 

[Jotown]

I really don't give 2 {censored}s about what kid rock has to say. I am not condoning stealing. I am saying that the end of the record companies is not a bad thing. Its a good thing. who employees more people ? small bussiness or large corporations ? How many musicians can no longer make a living as entertainers on a local level becuase of the Music Industry ? There was a time when talented musicinas got paid for the efforts they put forth and made a decent living. Secondly if a record companie sells a million records at a wholesale cost of roughly $3.85 per unit and the artist gets at best $0.50 on the record and the cost of production is maybe say $100k and then the cost per unit is $0.085 how can you not the see ludacricity of this ? so lets extrapolate. $3.85 per unit x 1million is 3.85 million dollars. We now subtract from that a gestimated cost of $5-7K per song on a 12 song LP figuring a 5-6 man rock band. These are average production costs in modern studios today using digital capture and an average time of 40hrs per son at 80 per hour plus mastering. Initial market exspense artwork and prints it work out to roughly 100k. Thats on the cheap side. So we subtract 100K from 3.85 million. Thats 3.84 million. Now the artist on a 50 point deal at $0.01 per point is now getting 0.50 per record. so we subtract 500k from the 3.84 million leaving the record company with 3.34 million. Now I know record companies spend money on marketing but who really does the marketing ? Lets thing about this. Lets see the band travels. they pay all their exspense out of the 500k so that self funded. Then they go on tour where yet again they self fund that event sometime with label support. Then there are the radio plays. The hidden genie in the bottle. a local station in my area can play a song 15-20 a day 7 days a week on prime rotation for roughly $1000. Now add in say 120 markets and that where the money is. so the record label spend $120k to hit 120 markets for a week. Now they know in about a week if something is gonna bomb but with proper market placement selling a million albums through a major well funded label is pretty {censored}ing easy. So let review. The record company spent lets be generous and say 1million dollars promoting producing and recording a band. sold 3.85 million worth of product and then made a tidy 2 million dollar profit and the band got 500k ?? Ahh yeah. Thats slave wages relatively speaking. Considering the band wrote,created,performed,promoted and otherwise pressed flesh to sell 1 million records and most likely slept in a van, toured for 200+ days and played small dig for years to get there. Sure I think its a great deal for maybe a one hit wonder for 500K to split against 5 guy. {censored} maybe one day I can hope to make 50k a year to. I will stick with my good paying day job.

 

I don't know where you cut and pasted your figures from but you whomever wrote it is generalizing about what a deal looks like. Also, you don't even factor in songwriting/publishing royalties in your package.

 

Every deal is different. Some are good, some are bad; just like most things in life. If you start with the premise that all labels are bad, all acts get screwed, so we should steal all of the music we want; it really doesn't matter what the facts are as you have already made up your mind so go ahead and continue stealing all of the music you want. I know that your perspective makes you feel good about this so carry on.

[AluminumNeck]

Hey dickhead. I have recipets for every piece of music in my library.

Yeah thats the typically deal a typical band gets sucked with.

Yeah those numbers are pretty {censored}ing average.

No I don;t think its ok for labels to ROB and STEAL from artists.

The downfall of the record companies will only serve to enrich our lives and theirs as the middle men get the big {censored}ing boot they deserve.

You probobaly are ok with bands selling tickets and not getting payed to play to ?

I don't know where you cut and pasted your figures from but you whomever wrote it is generalizing about what a deal looks like. Also, you don't even factor in songwriting/publishing royalties in your package. Every deal is different. Some are good, some are bad; just like most things in life. If you start with the premise that all labels are bad, all acts get screwed, so we should steal all of the music we want; it really doesn't matter what the facts are as you have already made up your mind so go ahead and continue stealing all of the music you want. I know that your perspective makes you feel good about this so carry on.

 

[Jotown]

You probobaly are ok with bands selling tickets and not getting payed to play to ?

I have made my living for many years performing live. I have also made my living for my entire adult life in the music business. To me the music industry is not some theory based on an anarchist philosophy. It is my life.

I have watched it fall, and the people who are suffering the most are not fat cats. They are writers, producers, engineers and yes; even muscians. But you wouldn't know that would you?

Way to go. Name calling and personal attacks. Just what intelligent people do to prove their point; right? I do thank you though because your mindset and behaviour illustrates the profile of the kind of people who are ruining the music industry for everyone else.

[BlueStrat]

whats it cost to press,print,package a CD ? $0.85 ? I used to work in duplication and printing. This is just plain common {censored}ing sense. The cost of a completed CD is under a $1.00.

Spoken like one who hasn't learned anything about the business of music.

 

Your figures would perhaps be true if you were buying packaged CDs with nothing on them. Those of us who like our CDs to have professionally produced music in them understand that sandwiched between the cost of the raw disc and the cost of the shrink wrap is the cost of hiring a good studio, in some cases good players, a good engineer, a mastering lab and engineers, producer, agent, entertainment lawyer, graphic designer, photographer, publicist, paying royalties and publishing on any songs not written by the artist, shipping, distribution and profit for retailers.

 

Other than that, yeah, CDs are cheap to produce.

 

Common sense, indeed.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

My sons mountain bike disappeared out of the garage, including the red $130.00 helmet.

According to the police via the bidirectional internet socket in my Maybach.

[TheToneGestapo]

whats it cost to press,print,package a CD ? $0.85 ? I used to work in duplication and printing. This is just plain common {censored}ing sense. The cost of a completed CD is under a $1.00. They were exspensive in 1982 becuase the technology was new. Someone had to pay for the tooling costs.

 

 

Are you really this ignorant.

[Etienne Rambert]

Rudolph:

My sons mountain bike disappeared out of the garage, including the red $130.00 helmet. According to the police via the bidirectional internet socket in my Maybach.

 

 

Do you think one of us might have stolen it?

 

If so, I confess. I did the dirty deed.

Now come and get it sucker!

 

And I use the term "sucker", knowing full-well the implications.

Anybody who would pay $130 for a helmet is in fact, a sucker.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Rudolph:

Do you think one of us might have stolen it?

Absolutely!!! Those east Asians are all thiefs...


If so, I confess. I did the dirty deed.
Now come and get it sucker!

And I use the term "sucker", knowing full-well the implications.
Anybody who would pay $130 for a helmet is in fact, a sucker.

I better don't tell you what the bicycle did cost, even though I have no idea what "sucker" stand for in New Guinea, except what the dictionary says:

[Etienne Rambert]

I don't need to know how much the bicycle cost you.

I needed to know how much I could sell it for.

 

I sold it for $75 USD and somebody's sister.

But I had to give the red helmet for free.

 

"Sucker" means an intelligent consumer in American slang.

 

There is a quote by an American circus impresario, P.T. Barnum,

 

"There's a sucker born every minute."

 

PT Barnum may not have said that. But people believe he said that.

That is what's important. In America, beliefs - not facts are important.

 

 

"When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." Film Director John Ford from the movie "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"

 

 

Your son's red helmet has become a legend. So kiss it good-bye, sucker!

 

Also...you need to be careful. If you do not know whether you are in Hong Kong or Shanghai, someone may try to deceive you. Maybe they will tell you that you are neither here nor there. Be cautious.

[Will Chen]

Thank you Aluminum Neck for providing a real world example for the ignorance which is destorying the music industry. As the others have stated, your price to press a CD example clearly demonstrates the disgusting attitude that the music on the CD is completely worthless...

[BlueStrat]

 

PT Barnum may not have said that. But people believe he said that. That is what's important.

 

Thereby making the observation, regardless of who said it, true.

[Jotown]

Thank you Aluminum Neck for providing a real world example for the ignorance which is destorying the music industry. As the others have stated, your price to press a CD example clearly demonstrates the disgusting attitude that the music on the CD is completely worthless...

Exactly. And this ignorance is all over the place. I have been writing/talking about the percieved value of music for almost ten years now and it is something that has declined for a big part of the younger generation. I don't know how we will ever get it back, but people like Aluminum Neck will keep believing it, and keep posting about it with utter conviction that they are correct.

[claveslave]

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[Jealousblues]

the guy is right...

but thats not going to take piracy away and no amount or prosecution, litigation, or arms race technology is going to either.

what we need is a new model for giving music away, wheather thats comercials on downloads or websites that have requestable music with ads or something

[Surrealistic]

An interesting alternative view to that of Lloyd-Webber here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/its-not-a-crime-to-download-say-musicians-1643217.html

To quote Billy Bragg from this group

... the record industry in Britain is still going down the road of criminalising our audience for downloading illegal MP3s ... If we follow the music industry down that road, we will be doing nothing more than being part of a protectionist effort. It's like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube.

The point being that the music biz needs a new model to replace the old one. The old model is pretty much broken now that digital media is the norm.

[Will Chen]

 

An interesting alternative view to that of Lloyd-Webber here: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/its-not-a-crime-to-download-say-musicians-1643217.html To quote Billy Bragg from this group The point being that the music biz needs a new model to replace the old one. The old model is pretty much broken now that digital media is the norm.

 

 

Agreed, however I refuse to be silent and apathetic regarding this topic and will voice my opinion whenever the topic comes up. To be honest, the new model exists. Subscription based music programs are fantastic and an absolute bargain. However, the issue is to many 1 penny is too much to pay for a song. There is no economic model which will attract them as they would steal anything they could if they were confident they would not get caught.

[AluminumNeck]

I value the music. I don;t value the distrobution system.

The cost to press a CD is real. You attitude sucks. Basically the record company is a very exspensive middle man costing the artists wether that is a recording artist or a performing artist or the recording work itself which is part art and part science alot of money.

Studios are going out of bussiness becuase the labels are robbing them blind for the work they do.

Think about how muhc better off a studio would be if they could get say $0.15 an album ?

Yeah the problem is the distrobution model.

Thank you Aluminum Neck for providing a real world example for the ignorance which is destorying the music industry. As the others have stated, your price to press a CD example clearly demonstrates the disgusting attitude that the music on the CD is completely worthless...

 

[Jotown]

Yeah the problem is the distrobution model.

Yeah the problem is the distrobution model because the model that is repalcing the old model is called "FREE."

But of course in your view this is enriching humanity.

When talking about the cost of a CD most music thieves make the same argument. Production costs of recording, mixing, and mastering the CD are the least of it. What of the value in the talent of the artist who dedicates their entire life to music? What is that worth? How does the artist get compesated for that?

[Will Chen]

I value the music. I don;t value the distrobution system. The cost to press a CD is real. You attitude sucks. Basically the record company is a very exspensive middle man costing the artists wether that is a recording artist or a performing artist or the recording work itself which is part art and part science alot of money. Studios are going out of bussiness becuase the labels are robbing them blind for the work they do. Think about how muhc better off a studio would be if they could get say $0.15 an album ? Yeah the problem is the distrobution model.

 

 

I have no idea how to even address this other than believe you are either a troll or have no concept how the music industry functions...probably a little bit of both.

 

Name 5 independent artists who has been able to mount a marketing campaign which is even close to what a record company can do. Granted they don't spend the big bucks on all their artists, but at a bare minumum they are able to promote road shows IN THE REAL WORLD rather than simply post a date on your MySpace page and magically expeceting the crowds to show up. Do you have any idea how much advertising costs? While the chances of getting signed and making it big might be 1 in a million, the Ani Difranco's of the music industry are more like 1 in a billion.

 

Did you know that a large majority of Hip Hop artists have used contract advances to build home studios for years now right? Not to mention the DAW completely eliminating the casual recording studio customer and small/independent acts. The record labels are what keep these studios alive for so many years. What indepent artist could afford the top tier studios in New York, Nashville, or LA?