my so called music career, i need to hear from you

[Sir Punk]

long story short, because I don't want to bore anybody. I moved to Minneapolis from Italy because I got accepted into grad school but the other major reason for moving was to pursue my music in the States. This happened in August '06.

 

After almost a year and many e-mails, phone calls, and try-outs I put together a band and started playing around and did some recordings. In the period between May '07 and March '08 I worked my ass-off with all the band duties you could possibly imagine: recording, mastering, promoting, printing-out cds, trying to find someone who could draw a t-shirt for us, getting shows, coordinating a recording session with an audio engineering class, selling tickets, etc. All these in the meantime of writing songs and practicing my vocal and guitar skills.

 

Our last show was January 30th and last recording at the end of March with an audio engineering class. After the last recording session the bass player told me he wanted out because was not having fun anymore, wanted to pursue his music, felt under-utilized and said I was lacking in leadership and motivation at practice. Following that I decided to fire the drummer for a fresh new start. Up until January we were on the rise, people would come to me after the shows for congratulations and asking how much my cd costed, I would always tell them "IT'S FREE!" because I made a couple of hundreds of free demos to give out at shows. After that I started to burn-out. The other 2 band members would not help me out with all the huge band work load, the drummer would not practice on his own but only when we all played together, he promised me multiple times to use his connection to get us shows and bring demos to the venues. In a few words it was a big let down for me. I started feeling like I was just going to practice to be his "cd-player", and was disappointed by the false promises he kept making. It would have been definitely easier for him to get shows than me since he has been in the Minneapolis music scene much longer and knew a lot more people.

When it all ended it was a big let-down, my music is the first priority for me, a big part of my life, my passion, and all the hard work I've been putting into it without the others really helping me out. Since then I can't find any motivation to start all over again: find a drummer, bass player, a practice space, teach them the songs. I really don't know what to do. I will probably graduate in December and then who knows where I will find a job, I don't know if I'll be in the area or somewhere else. I am 26, not old but not young for the music industry. If I try to start a band now, by the time we will be ready to play I might have to leave. Sorry for the long post but all those details were needed to describe my situation at best. you can listen to my music at http://www.berzaghi.com/ the bohemian grove song is the bassist's. I didn't even have the motivation to upload the latest March recordings. I need to hear from experienced fellow musicians because I am lost and it doesn't feel good at all.

[ermghoti II]

Hooray for paragraphs!

 

In addition to the myriad other realities that make a career in music a virtual oxymoron, there is the simple fact that most people are morons, only a small percentage of people are pursuing a career in music, and frankly, pursuing music as a career is such a bad plan that those doing it are disproportionately morons.

 

This leaves us with a little problem. We need highly skilled, dedicated people, but we have dingbats to choose from. We have expenses that must be met, we have semi-unemployable airheads in our camp. We have to make tough compromises to take a tiny slice of the imperceptibly small opportunity for success, but our cohorts are irrationally inflexible on meaningless topics. We need to analyze ourselves mercilessly, from a business perspective and artistically, we are surrounded be narcissists in denial of their reckless actions, their ruseness towards people we need, and all too often, their pedestrian level of mastery on their instrument.

 

People suck.

[germs]

Wow, I can totally relate.

 

I think everyone goes through this at one point or another. Some people can dig themselves out and find the motivation to continue persuing their dream, others take the safer, more rational route and keep music as a hobby. It's a tough decision to make, and ultimately the one you have to make for yourself.

 

At least once every few weeks, one of us here has a crisis-moment similar to yours (including yours truly). I would recommend going back and looking through the histories and seeing what everyone else had to say about the matter. It's important to keep perspective on the issue, and get as many different view points as possible.

 

But since I'm here, I'll reiterate:

 

I got frustrated by the success of people who weren't around as long as me. I've been doing this a fair amount of time. Not as long as some here, mind you, but long enough. Does that make them better musicians than me? No.

Do they have better business skills than me? Doubtful. All that means is that they were in the right place at the right time. It doesn't mean they will ultimately succeed.

 

It always sucks to get screwed around by other people, in any regard. The hardest part about forming a band is finding people who are all on the same page, and keeping them there. I'm sure you realize life is full of variables and things are always changing. Everyone's got a life outside of music. It's as simple as that. Some are more dedicated, some align themselves to be as un-attached financially as possible in order to succeed, and others just take life one day at a time; in other words, {censored} happens.

 

There are a few things that helped me:

 

1. My inner drive to succeed. I believe I can achieve what I want to do. I refuse to give up. Call it stubborn or ignorant or naive, if you wish. I possess the drive and determination to make it work. No one will help me along the way; it is up to me to make it happen. It helps if there's a group of people willing to follow you (i.e. a band), but if you can make it as a songwriter, you can do it yourself. I'll probably catch hell on the boards for saying that...

 

2. My leadership ability. Some people have it, some people can be taught it. Some people were born to follow. You need to learn which one you are.

 

3. Understanding that no one will GIVE me what I want. In this world, you have to go out and get it for yourself. Within legal limits, of course. I have to do it on my own, or with the help of my family/band/friends. I prefer to have help, but I'm capable of travelling light if need be...

 

4. Above all, stay positive! Turn every negative into a positive. Example: I recently got a REJECTED stamped presskit returned from Epic records. I turned around, slipped a cover-set list inside, and submitted that to an out-of-town venue. That turned into a major payday! We got the gigs and good money to boot. Don't let every little thing get you down.

 

So there you have it. I'll probably catch hell and flame for that. People around here expect you to have this huge humility complex or something when it comes to "making it". I don't mind talking about what helps me be successful, if I think it can help someone else in return.

 

Best of luck in making your decision. Hope it helps.

[masterbuilt]

Welcome to the music business. You are maturing as a musician and they are not.

 

Do yourself a favor, audition with a group of older guys (and gals) and play with them for a while and make some money with them. Don't worry so much about your original tunes for the time being, but, keep writing songs. Just enjoy the ride and gather your thoughts.

 

My brother-in-law was in a group on the top 100 charts in Europe and he fronted for Dwight Yoakam before 30,000 people. He played bass for that band and he had a good time, but, he has not played a crowd that large since that band. He would never trade those memories for anything.

[jaxn slim]

A lot of your story reminds me of my own experiences and a lot that I have heard from others on these boards.

 

I think it comes down to surrounding yourself with the right people. I'm still working on doing that myself. It's just so easy to settle for the first group that you find. You get in a rush and want to make the best of what you have... When all along, you're busting your ass for a bunch of suckers that refuse to carry their own weight. It's easy to burn out when you're pulling everyone else's load too.

 

Keep your head up, man. If you keep looking and don't settle for a bunch of wankers again, you'll do fine.

 

As far as what you should do next, you're the only one who can decide that. Personally, I like to take some time off between bands. It gives me time to analyze where things went wrong and to look inward for moving onward. Also, since you're in for a big life change coming up, you might not want to commit to a new band unless it's too good to pass up.

[Scafeets]

I may be way off base here, but I'll make this recommendation anyway.....

I visited your MySpace page and listened to all your music. From reading your post and listening to your songs,I get the impression that the band was all about you, your music and your vision. That would be OK if you were a really strong singer and songwriter...but I don't hear that. You could probably benefit from more of a collaborative effort where everyone puts their creative energies into the music. Is it possible that you didn't get any cooperation on band business because everyone else felt excluded musically?

[Deeprig9]

He said he didn't include the March recordings, perhaps he should for a more modern snapshot of his right-now situation.

[BATCAT]

I can relate to a lot of the OP's experiences. For the record I'm 31.

 

Band lineups can be very fickle, for sure. When I started writing and fronting my own project, I made a resoloution to approach things like this:

 

Whoever wants to play live and/or record with me, fine, welcome to the band. Learn the songs, show up ready to go, don't have a {censored}ty attitude. If you can do that I will treat you as my friend and collaborator.

 

But people move, or they lose motivation to play in a band, or whatever. Fine. I'm going to continue to use the same band name and treat it all as an extension of the same body of work. If my entire band left today, I'd recruit a new band as soon as I could, in the meanwhile playing acoustic solo shows and, if necessary, playing all the instruments myself on albums.

 

For sure I love the comraderie and musical chemistry of being in a collaborative band, but I don't ever get too attached to playing with any one person. Nor do I expect much more from my bandmates than showing up and maybe helping a little with recording costs and the like. That means I generally do all the songwriting, booking, MySpace, emailing, whatever.

 

Is that exhausting? Sure. But it's less exhausting that holding onto the hope that I'm somehow going to fine magical bandmates that are as driven as I am. I can tell SP, that you're probably the same personality type, someone motivated by a really strong passion for playing music. The hardest part about being that kind of person is realizing that most other musicians aren't on the same page.

 

I hope my perspective has been useful to you.

[Sir Punk]

thanks for everyone with the great replies. I wanna answer to some posts individually since you took time to write it.

 

 

For sure I love the comraderie and musical chemistry of being in a collaborative band, but I don't ever get too attached to playing with any one person. Nor do I expect much more from my bandmates than showing up and maybe helping a little with recording costs and the like. That means I generally do all the songwriting, booking, MySpace, emailing, whatever.

 

 

I am always of the opinion that a band is a group of people working towards the same objective. Even economically, when I started proposing paying for some serious recording, they all turned the other way. At that point I started to understand that we were not on the same page. Unfortunately as someone said, it is rare to find someone who is on your page, at times I think it's almost impossible unless you grow up together. If you look at many bands that made it, the core of the band is made by people who have known each other forever. One people doing everything gets pretty old very fast, especially if you go to grad school and have two jobs.

[Sir Punk]

 

I can tell SP, that you're probably the same personality type, someone motivated by a really strong passion for playing music. The hardest part about being that kind of person is realizing that most other musicians aren't on the same page.

 

 

I just wanted to add. I am TOTALLY like that! Right now a lot of it has faded and I am looking inside of me to bring it back. Unfortunately when you set high goals, when you fall you hit very hard, and it hurts! Pretty much my plan was to get to the States, get a band up and going in 4 months, then do a small midwest tour during summer school break. Then the second year record a 7", or a demo to send out, and keep hitting the local scene and hook up with some bigger local band and hit the road again for a bigger tour, and then who knows. Ambitious? Definitely, but to reach high you need to aim higher. So last March when nobody was helping me and we struggled getting shows and thing organized I started fading. Unfortunately as soon as we started the bassist was on my same page his motto was "we need to get signed by fat wreck in 2 years" and we dismissed a few musicians because they were lacking balls and motivations. But then I guess things fell apart and he got busy with law school and got engaged and...the rest is history.

 

I am glad though I am getting some positive feedback from here.

[BlueStrat]

 

people would come to me after the shows for congratulations and asking how much my cd costed, I would always tell them "IT'S FREE!" because I made a couple of hundreds of free demos to give out at shows.

 

 

Marketing 101:When someone expresses interest in your work by asking how much it costs, never say "Free." Why give away something someone is telling you they're willing to pay you for?

[Scafeets]

Again, this may or may not apply to the situation; but maybe this is why you're having problems keeping a band together.

There was a period in my life where I was just a hired gun...playing with a bunch of songwriters and original start-up bands. I would put a lot of energy into some of these projects...months... always deferring to the leader's vision.

After a while, it became clear that we were only going to play a handful of gigs for little or no money. And, even after we had worked on the songs for a long time, I wasn't feeling like they were anything special, so I moved on.

 

The whole syndrome of helping people put their orignals together, recording (for free) and "showcasing" for free gets a little tiresome if you've done it for any length of time.

[sabriel9v]

To the OP, listen to Scafeets and Bluestrat's points

[modulusman]

Marketing 101:When someone expresses interest in your work by asking how much it costs, never say "Free." Why give away something someone is telling you they're willing to pay you for?

+ 1. If you are not smart enough to charge for your music then you need a new career.

[Sir Punk]

It was just a batch of home produced demos with 3 songs in each. IMO it was not worth asking people to pay for it. It is also a good business practice at the beginning to give away things for free. Look at e-bay, and I could make a ton of other examples. It's fine to do at the beginning to promote. I probably spent less than $50 on it.

[modulusman]

It is not a good business practice to give your music away for free. If you don't understand the concept the get use to playing in {censored}ty bands and never making any money.

[ermghoti II]

 

It is not a good business practice to play music. If you don't understand the concept the get use to playing in {censored}ty bands and never making any money.

 

 

Seriously. Something like 1 out of 200 working bands earn a living wage. That doesn't even count the attempted bands. Play what you love, because you love it. Play live if you like, record if you like. Unless you're playing weddings/corporate/etc, you have no expectation that you might make money.

[modulusman]

Seriously. Something like 1 out of 200 working bands earn a living wage. That doesn't even count the attempted bands. Play what you love, because you love it. Play live if you like, record if you like. Unless you're playing weddings/corporate/etc, you have no expectation that you might make money.

WRONG. If you can't earn any money then you are not in a working band. Something is NOT working.

[sabriel9v]

 

It is not a good business practice to give your music away for free. If you don't understand the concept the get use to playing in {censored}ty bands and never making any money.

 

 

I agree and disagree with this statement. The problem is, this comment does not wholly encompass the idea or concept of free music. Independent artists can benefit from giving away little free music samplers at the beginning of their career. It gives these artists a chance to build up demand and flood the market with their material. As always, I feel we need to specifically state what "free music" means before we bash it.

[ermghoti II]

 

WRONG. If you can't earn any money then you are not in a working band. Something is NOT working.

 

 

Change the vocabulary however you like. A 1 in 200 marginal success rate for those making a earnest attempt.

[BlueStrat]

 

Seriously. Something like 1 out of 200 working bands earn a living wage. That doesn't even count the attempted bands. .

 

 

This is because they haven't taken the time to learn anything about business, and so giving it away to "get your foot in the door" the only thing they can think of to do. It's silly, because (oh God, here I go again, for the 100th time) it teaches you nothing about business. It is a lazy way to try to gain acceptance. It is a shortcut that is misapplied. Sure, it works for Costco to give away free samples of soup or salmon patties, because people are going to go back and buy those soups or salmon patties maybe 10 or 20 more times. If you give away your music, what else do you have to sell? Once you give it away, what is there to go back and buy? No one is going to buy multiple copies of your CD, are they?

 

When I read stuff like this, I cringe:

"It was just a batch of home produced demos with 3 songs in each. IMO it was not worth asking people to pay for it." '

 

If it's that {censored}ty, why put it out at all? Your recordings and your live performances are the only two things you have to represent your band and your songs. If it's not ready to market, what is it doing in the marketplace? If it's not good enough to sell, it's not good enough to have anyone listen to it. That's another axiom of business 101.

 

Just my .02.

[sabriel9v]

 

When I read stuff like this, I cringe: "It was just a batch of home produced demos with 3 songs in each. IMO it was not worth asking people to pay for it." ' If it's that {censored}ty, why put it out at all? Your recordings and your live performances are the only two things you have to represent your band and your songs. If it's not ready to market, what is it doing in the marketplace? If it's not good enough to sell, it's not good enough to have anyone listen to it. That's another axiom of business 101.

 

 

Hmm...I agree with you when you say that your recordings represent your artistic work and business as a whole. In turn, it's only logical for a person to strive to release material that is noteworthy in terms of sound quality and content. Nonetheless, you can't bash all people who give away free music. You used the Costco analogy, which is pretty good. But no representative from any company is going to taste a free sample of soup at Costco and decide to sponsor that can of soup. But in the music business, it's different. Someone like Lil Wayne or the Arctic Monkeys can give away free tracks, let demand build, and start receiving offers to have their music played in commercials, movies, etc.

 

Free music is a very interesting concept to me. It definitely has its cons, but the ones who understand how to properly manage and utilize the pros usually come out on top.

[Sir Punk]

In what era are you guys living?!?! Known bands give away their new albums for free on their website, people download and exchange cds like crazy over the internet and with mp3 players. And do you expect to make a living out of selling your UNKNOWN band cds at live shows?! I had the fortune of meeting a few pro musicians like The Ataris, MxPx, Sum 41 and asking them a few question about business and FOR SURE their revenue doesn't come anymore from selling records.

 

Our recording were good enough for a demo and wouldn't make us look good. But I assure that if I spend $5000 an a recording I would not give it away for free unless it was a specific situation were it was smart to do so.

 

I agree on the point that "if your product doesn't stand to the market standards, then it shouldn't be in the market".

[masterbuilt]

This discussion is getting interesting. I'll make one more comment for now and watch what happens.

 

There are lots of people that play music extremely well, but don't understand business. If more musicians were business oriented, they would concentrate on making money more effectively.

 

There is another side, however, if music is your passion, it shows in how you play, so, be passionate about it, and understand the business of it, too, and you have a formula for success. If you love playing making money is icing on the cake, it's true, but, if it is your "living", then you need to sharpen your business savvy and marketing skills, or hire someone to look out for your best interest for you.

[BlueStrat]

 

This discussion is getting interesting. I'll make one more comment for now and watch what happens. There are lots of people that play music extremely well, but don't understand business. If more musicians were business oriented, they would concentrate on making money more effectively. There is another side, however, if music is your passion, it shows in how you play, so, be passionate about it, and understand the business of it, too, and you have a formula for success. If you love playing making money is icing on the cake, it's true, but, if it is your "living", then you need to sharpen your business savvy and marketing skills, or hire someone to look out for your best interest for you.

 

 

 

Precisely.

 

Sir Punk asked in what era are some of us are living. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm from an era before playing for free was even a consideration unless it was a friend's birthday party or some such private affair. No one thought of playing for nothing in public, and if they did, doing so could get them an asswhipping from a large group of guys who depended on paying gigs for their living.

 

Of course, in that era, not just any swinging dick with a guitar and pro tools was considered a 'recording artist'. Few bands could come up with the scratch to make a vinyl record. You actually had to have enough on the ball to get someone to front your record, which means they were investing in your earning potential.

 

Now, every hobbyist on the planet fancies himself as a songwriter, recording artist, record producer, recording, mixing and mastering engineer, graphic designer, distributor, booking agent, and band manager. And it shows. They make a CD and, armed with a wheelbarrow full of myth and misinformation, plow on ahead into the business, without a clue as to how any of it works. The have no idea of any of it, from copyrights to licensing to publishing, or what ASCAP or BMI does, how airplay works, how record company submissions work, and lots of other things one needs to know to succeed in the music biz. When a suggestion is made to hire an entertainment lawyer or a producer, the response is something on the order of "WHAT!? But that costs money! I'd rather do it cheap! Can't I just write on the CDRs with magic marker...", as if being in any successful business doesn't have costs. So the only alternative to education is to just give it all away in hopes of getting interest. Give away CDs, MP3s, play for free... In the rest of the business world, it's laughingly called "throwing everything against the wall and seeing what sticks". Hardly a sound business model or plan.

 

To my mind, it's the difference between building bird houses in the garage and real ones for the public to live in. Today, the music biz has become the equivalent of the birdhouse builder entering the housing market and giving their product away for free. The only reasons to do so is either 1) the knowledge that the product isn't really good enough to compete in the marketplace (Yeah, I know I'm giving it away, but it was recorded in my basement with one mic on a two track reel to reel..."), or 2) the artist in question has no idea how to go about marketing, and can't be bothered to learn, and since everyone else is giving it away (because they don't know any better either), that appears to be the current model to success.

 

I don't care, if guys want to spin their wheels for a few moments of momentary local progress, that's their business. I'm at the end of my musical career and don't care much about it one way or another anymore. It just saddens me to see the business I devoted a lifetime to morph into something that is unrecognizable. Being pro musician used to be not only possible at the local level, it used to be a bit of a prestigious occupation. As a young guy at age 25 I made more money playing 24 hours a week than my friends did framing houses or plumbing for 40 hours. In 1980, 400-500 dollars a week cash was nothing to sneeze at. But this is now, most of the paying gigs are gone, and the ones that do pay don't pay any more than they did 28 years ago. And there's no shortage of guys lined up to take them.