Members dcindc Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 I didn't have much luck with the torch cleaners for nut work. What I found works well and is practically free is the remnants of a set of 11 strings. I kept a piece of each string about 6 inches in length. I keep them in a can, so I don't get stuck. I just run them thru the nut slots and it takes the ping out of a new guitar's nut. You can go deeper but I wouldn't use them for slotting a new nut. Too slow. I have all three sizes of the planes. I got them from Tower Hobby cheap. All three get some use, so get all three. The backwards paper, and the hand stop are great ideas for the fall-away work! NevrDull is great for polishing the frets. I go from 320 to 600 to NevrDull. It's some effort, but it's quick and works well. I've used a stone and it makes quick work of single high or misshapen frets. Make like Holly, and go lightly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lost_Cause Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 Pardon my ignorance but the cut-up card? Why is it necessary to cut it up to check for the level of the frets? Is it for the frets that are closer together so you do not bridge too many and can determine the level of a shorter run of frets? A picture would be appreciated if I am not correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members webwarmiller Posted April 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 Pardon my ignorance but the cut-up card? Why is it necessary to cut it up to check for the level of the frets? Is it for the frets that are closer together so you do not bridge too many and can determine the level of a shorter run of frets? A picture would be appreciated if I am not correct. Yes, the longest side of a standard card is good up to span 9-10-11 frets and the shorter side good up to 17-18-19. so in order to check the upper most frets a slightly shorter edge is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lost_Cause Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 Thanks, I plan on doing doing this as soon as I can order the 11" sander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ILikeGuitar Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 When you fret level with a straight block with no radius, does that just make all the frets flat and have no radius? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doctor Morbius Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 ... Trust me, this isn't rocket science and just about anyone with any amount of handiness ...Dohhh! That leaves me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members webwarmiller Posted April 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 When you fret level with a straight block with no radius, does that just make all the frets flat and have no radius? No, not at all. As you sand lengthwise you also move the bar from side to side to ensure you are evenly sanding the frets. As the fet tops get sanded it's easy to tell how much material has been removed by looking at how wide the flat spot is on the top of the frets. The aim is to have the width of the flat top even across each individual fret as this means you have maintained the original radius. You also do some sanding with the radius to help smooth things out a bit. It sounds a LOT more complicated than it actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Toadroller Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 Instead of the Great Plane level, I took an old woodworking plane I had lying around and used it. Makes for a nice handle, easy to control. And you know that sucker's going to be flat.The martini was helpful but not necessary to the task. I did this and my daughter's squire bullet strat a few weeks ago. It turned her 7.5" radius neck/spoke shaver into a very playable little guitar for $99. Oh, and it's pink, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Toadroller Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 point of clarification- I took the blade out of the plane and simply carpet-taped sandpaper to it. It would be another challenge alltogether to actually plane the frets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members normh Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 Do you have pictures of the fretboard from the side? It would seem, from looking at the pictures, that the frets have flats across the tops, and therefore are not properly crowned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IBDBB Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 cool yo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ILikeGuitar Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 No, not at all. As you sand lengthwise you also move the bar from side to side to ensure you are evenly sanding the frets. As the fet tops get sanded it's easy to tell how much material has been removed by looking at how wide the flat spot is on the top of the frets. The aim is to have the width of the flat top even across each individual fret as this means you have maintained the original radius. You also do some sanding with the radius to help smooth things out a bit. It sounds a LOT more complicated than it actually is. So it's just eyeballing that you did it all evenly with the flat block? and then afterwards you radius or just skip straight to crowning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vetmxer Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 Do you have pictures of the fretboard from the side? It would seem, from looking at the pictures, that the frets have flats across the tops, and therefore are not properly crowned.When I did mine I musta taken 20 pics and with the glare after ya polish them it just seems to look like that. Just keep on the finger bump(light pressure) till they round off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katillac Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 So it's just eyeballing that you did it all evenly with the flat block? and then afterwards you radius or just skip straight to crowning? You're making it out to be more difficult than it should be. When you do the sanding, you don't move the bar just lengthwise up and down the frets in a straight line. You also move it from side to side. The purpose of marking the tops of the frets with a Sharpie are so you can track how level the frets are, and that includes the radius. Where you see black marks, it needs more work. Once you get the tops leveled, then you move on to crowning. Some people blacken the tops of the frets again as a guide when using a crowning tool. Otherwise, you can eyeball them. They may not be perfect, but you also aren't paying $200 for a machine to do all the work either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members normh Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 When I did mine I musta taken 20 pics and with the glare after ya polish them it just seems to look like that. Just keep on the finger bump(light pressure) till they round off. The reason I ask is that these are a few of the tools I use for fret leveling; I have others.I have tried the method given and while it did work, I was unsatisfied. However, also bear in mind that I am unhappy with the crowning file and am learning to crown with a modified corner file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vetmxer Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 some ppl are never happy I guess :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chuck1016 Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 Thanks for the thread. Fretwork is something I've been a little hesitant about, but between the pics, explanation and Q&A, this thread explains it all perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members normh Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 some ppl are never happy I guess :poke: Not that at all. There is no one single method that will be the best in all given situations. Therefore, a variety of tools and methods are needed. The method that was presented here, as stated earlier, does work and generally works well. It does not, however, work well on low frets - somewhere between .30 and .35 of crown left. It is difficult to crown stainless steel or evo wire with a crowning file, let alone sandpaper. Sometimes you have a warped neck and need a down and dirty method to "adjust" the frets to the neck without removing, reradiusing, and refretting. The method given in this thread does not work for me, unless I have new frets. For me, this method does give a crown that contributes to buzzing when I release the note. It is a playing style thing. So I have to 'adjust' the crown with a steeper roll off on the bridge side of the fret than there is on the nut side. This is tough with bumping the crown, not difficult with a crowning file, and easy with a corner file. I also always ask people about the work that they do. I have heard that a wise man learns from his own mistakes. I that person a fool; a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. I will give that the 'bump' method is both fast and easy. It takes more time to tape the fret board than it does to level the frets. You can bump a fretboard faster than I can use a crowning file, especially the one shown. You talk - 45 min. for a level and recrown. I can tell you with the file shown, I cannot crown a board in under three hours and I have to work at it. Maybe that is because I file until the flat on the fret is between .3 and .5 mm before I bump the frets with sandpaper. A diamond file is supposed to be quicker and less effort, I do not know. A corner file is faster and offers more control than either 'the bump' or a crowning file, but it takes more skill and practice. In regard to this subject, Lynn Wheelright of Pro Audio Musician in Clearfield told me when I asked about going pro in repair -"work all day to fret and level a guitar for $125, are you crazy?" This is a man who has been doing the work for 40+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted April 7, 2009 Members Share Posted April 7, 2009 Not that at all. There is no one single method that will be the best in all given situations. Therefore, a variety of tools and methods are needed. The method that was presented here, as stated earlier, does work and generally works well. It does not, however, work well on low frets - somewhere between .30 and .35 of crown left. It is difficult to crown stainless steel or evo wire with a crowning file, let alone sandpaper. Sometimes you have a warped neck and need a down and dirty method to "adjust" the frets to the neck without removing, reradiusing, and refretting.The method given in this thread does not work for me, unless I have new frets. For me, this method does give a crown that contributes to buzzing when I release the note. It is a playing style thing. So I have to 'adjust' the crown with a steeper roll off on the bridge side of the fret than there is on the nut side. This is tough with bumping the crown, not difficult with a crowning file, and easy with a corner file.I also always ask people about the work that they do. I have heard that a wise man learns from his own mistakes. I that person a fool; a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.I will give that the 'bump' method is both fast and easy. It takes more time to tape the fret board than it does to level the frets. You can bump a fretboard faster than I can use a crowning file, especially the one shown. You talk - 45 min. for a level and recrown. I can tell you with the file shown, I cannot crown a board in under three hours and I have to work at it. Maybe that is because I file until the flat on the fret is between .3 and .5 mm before I bump the frets with sandpaper. A diamond file is supposed to be quicker and less effort, I do not know. A corner file is faster and offers more control than either 'the bump' or a crowning file, but it takes more skill and practice. In regard to this subject, Lynn Wheelright of Pro Audio Musician in Clearfield told me when I asked about going pro in repair -"work all day to fret and level a guitar for $125, are you crazy?" This is a man who has been doing the work for 40+ years. I'm right with you on a few points here. I also prefer to have more control over the crown profile. I actually end up using just about all the methods. I start the round over with a half round diamond crowning file, just to take the shoulders off. Then I angle them in with a corner file but leave a little flat spot. I've accidentally taken off too much with a corner file too many times, so I don't get too aggressive with it. Also, I don't want to take all the flat spot off because then you run the risk of removing too much material, and possibly UNleveling your frets during the polishing process. Then, once all the frets are almost crowned, with a tiny just visible flat spot on the top, I do the bump method to finish the round over, and start the polishing process. It takes some time, but it works best for me. I think everyone needs to try it a few times, and find what works for them since it seems we all do it a bit differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katillac Posted April 9, 2009 Members Share Posted April 9, 2009 Not that at all. There is no one single method that will be the best in all given situations. Right, and what some of you guys don't get is that this is about how one guy did his, not a fret level, crown and polish Ten Commandments. Norm, I like you as a person. I want you to know that. But sometimes you go off on a complete aspergian rant, it's impossible for you to see that the discussion is about something simple, not so complex that it needs a team of experts to decipher. You're not the only one to do that around here, especially when it's in the DIY forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members normh Posted April 14, 2009 Members Share Posted April 14, 2009 I want you to know that. But sometimes you go off on a complete aspergian rant, it's impossible for you to see that the discussion is about something simple, not so complex that it needs a team of experts to decipher. Love ya too Kat. Please don't confuse me with mythical disorders - even if they (Aperger's Syndrome) are listed in the DSM IV. Seems that no one really knows what it is, including the American Psychiatric Association. I actually had to look it up, so thanks for throwing me. Not trying to put the guy down, just explaining my position and the tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HumanFuseBen Posted June 25, 2009 Members Share Posted June 25, 2009 this is a great tutorial! demistifies a lot about fret work that had always scared me... i totally want to try this out now with confidance! i maybe don't understand the crowning part, you went over that kind quickly... what is the purpose of that? and how exactly do you feel that out by hand? if my crowns aren't all identical and perfect, is the whole thing {censored}ed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rob14 Posted June 25, 2009 Members Share Posted June 25, 2009 As katillac said, this is one guys method and it works for him, either give it a try and see what you think or don't. This is handwork guys, it's not following ABC to install a software program, there's a degree of feel in this. You can ask 10 different luthiers and you'll get 10 slightly different ways of doing the job. I've been doing this for 30 years and my way is basicaly the same, but I change how I crown to meet specific customers needs. This is a good easy starting point and it will give a result that suits most players. If it doesn't suit you work out what you need to add to the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stratotak Posted June 25, 2009 Members Share Posted June 25, 2009 this is a great tutorial! demistifies a lot about fret work that had always scared me... i totally want to try this out now with confidance! i maybe don't understand the crowning part, you went over that kind quickly... what is the purpose of that? and how exactly do you feel that out by hand? if my crowns aren't all identical and perfect, is the whole thing {censored}ed? Point of crowning the frets is after it has been leveled frets will have a flat top..you want the top to be curved.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members irishstu Posted June 25, 2009 Members Share Posted June 25, 2009 Thanks for posting this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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