Members AndrewGG Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 Yes, because 800 dollars for a Gibson Les Paul Jr (without tax) is such a STEAL Nobody's breaking your arm to buy one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AndrewGG Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 The car analogy does work. Put an LP Standard next to the Epiphone version of the same and tell me what the differences are? Not a whole lot, maybe some slightly better materials and a bit better fit and finish, but what else? Now take a Ford Crown Victoria and put it next to a Lincoln Town Car. What are the differences? Put a Rolls Royce next to a Nissan; what are the differences? They both get you from A to B? People buy what they want and what they can afford; if you can't afford what you want then no amount of 'justifying' your cheap-ass alternative is going to get you it. If it makes you feel better, go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diceman1000 Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 The car analogy does work. Put an LP Standard next to the Epiphone version of the same and tell me what the differences are? Not a whole lot, maybe some slightly better materials and a bit better fit and finish, but what else? Now take a Ford Crown Victoria and put it next to a Lincoln Town Car. What are the differences?sure...when you're comparing two models based on the same frame and concept,form the same auto maker...i'm talking about saying that a Gibson lp studio is better than a Cort Z Custom simply because it's US made and says Gibson on it...apples and door knobs brother...Gibson LP StudioCarved maple top and mahogany back (Mahogany top on faded finish models)Mahogany neck, '59 Rounded Les PaulRosewood fingerboard (Ebony on Alpine white)Tune-O-Matic bridge with stopbarChrome or gold hardware490R and 498T Alnico 2 magnet humbucker pickups (BurstBucker Pro on faded finish models)2 volume and 2 tone knobs, 3-way switch$1,319Cort Z CustomCONSTRUCTION Set-inBODY Mahogany w/ quilted maple topNECK Maple 3pc, Modern ''C'' ShapeNECK WIDTH 1F : 43mm / 22F : 56mmNECK THICKNESS 1F : 19.5mm / 12F : 21.5mmFINGERBOARD Rosewood, 12'' Radius(305mm)FRET 22 / Large (2.7mm)INLAY ''Z'' Mother of PearlTUNER LockingSCALE 24 3/4'' (629mm)NUT GraphiteBRIDGE TonePros Lic. Locking bridge (C-TPFP) w /string thru bodyPICKUP Seymour Duncan SH1('59) & SH4(JB) (H-H)CONTROL 2vol, 1tone (w/ push pull), 3way togglePICKUP SWITCHING Coil Tap Push DownPosition1 : NeckPosition2 : Neck & BridgePosition3 : BridgeCoil Tap Pull upPosition1 : Front Coil of NeckPosition2 : Front Coil of Neck & Rear Coil of BridgePosition3 : Rear Coil of BridgeHARDWARE GD(Gold)UNIQUE FEATURE Coil Tap Push DownPosition1 : NeckPosition2 : Neck & BridgePosition3 : BridgeCoil Tap Pull upPosition1 : Front Coil of NeckPosition2 : Front Coil of Neck & Rear Coil of BridgePosition3 : Rear Coil of Bridge$699both are made from the same materials.the Cort clearly blows the Gibson away in specs and options and is half the price to boot.yet some will still argue until their last breath that the Gibson is better because,well,"dude,it's a Gibson":rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metalheadUK Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 I LOVES a good Gibbo...I has some, but so many of the production ones here were really nothing special at all when I was looking.People can disagree until they go blue in the arse, but my Tokai and Edwards LPs are CONSIDERABLY better than the majority of LP standards I played in 2005.I've got no axe to grind..I have 2 very sweet Gibson Lps, + a faded DC and an SG special, but trying to find them almost put me off Gibsons for good.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kellanium Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 Short answer to a long post: You really don't need to defend Gibson. They have lawyers and publicists for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AndrewGG Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 sure...when you're comparing two models based on the same frame and concept,form the same auto maker...i'm talking about saying that a Gibson lp studio is better than a Cort Z Custom simply because it's US made and says Gibson on it...apples and door knobs brother... Gibson LP Studio Carved maple top and mahogany back (Mahogany top on faded finish models) Mahogany neck, '59 Rounded Les Paul Rosewood fingerboard (Ebony on Alpine white) Tune-O-Matic bridge with stopbar Chrome or gold hardware 490R and 498T Alnico 2 magnet humbucker pickups (BurstBucker Pro on faded finish models) 2 volume and 2 tone knobs, 3-way switch $1,319 Cort Z Custom CONSTRUCTION Set-in BODY Mahogany w/ quilted maple top NECK Maple 3pc, Modern ''C'' Shape NECK WIDTH 1F : 43mm / 22F : 56mm NECK THICKNESS 1F : 19.5mm / 12F : 21.5mm FINGERBOARD Rosewood, 12'' Radius(305mm) FRET 22 / Large (2.7mm) INLAY ''Z'' Mother of Pearl TUNER Locking SCALE 24 3/4'' (629mm) NUT Graphite BRIDGE TonePros Lic. Locking bridge (C-TPFP) w /string thru body PICKUP Seymour Duncan SH1('59) & SH4(JB) (H-H) CONTROL 2vol, 1tone (w/ push pull), 3way toggle PICKUP SWITCHING Coil Tap Push Down Position1 : Neck Position2 : Neck & Bridge Position3 : Bridge Coil Tap Pull up Position1 : Front Coil of Neck Position2 : Front Coil of Neck & Rear Coil of Bridge Position3 : Rear Coil of Bridge HARDWARE GD(Gold) UNIQUE FEATURE Coil Tap Push Down Position1 : Neck Position2 : Neck & Bridge Position3 : Bridge Coil Tap Pull up Position1 : Front Coil of Neck Position2 : Front Coil of Neck & Rear Coil of Bridge Position3 : Rear Coil of Bridge $699 both are made from the same materials.the Cort clearly blows the Gibson away in specs and options and is half the price to boot.yet some will still argue until their last breath that the Gibson is better because,well,"dude,it's a Gibson":rolleyes: ...and that's a very precious thing called 'reputation'. It's pointless trying to make comparisons. People buy Gibson and Martin for more reasons than just a cost/spec comparison. Heritage, reputation, warranty, the kudos of owning an iconic instrument from an American icon. Can Cort claim any of this? No, and that's why, whatever the market alternatives and no matter how much better spec'd and cheaper they might be, Gibson will always sell Les Pauls.Gibson has something called class; a Cort is, well, a generic no-name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diceman1000 Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 ...and that's a very precious thing called 'reputation'. It's pointless trying to make comparisons. People buy Gibson and Martin for more reasons than just a cost/spec comparison. Heritage, reputation, warranty, the kudos of owning an iconic instrument from an American icon. Can Cort claim any of this? No, and that's why, whatever the market alternatives and no matter how much better spec'd and cheaper they might be, Gibson will always sell Les Pauls. um,yeah,Cort has a lifetime warranty also,and for those that are misinformed,if you play a schecter,ibanez,squier,anything made in korea or indonesia,it's probably from a Cort factory...i cannot argue reputation though,but,as stated above...if Jimmy Page(and the like) had never played an LP,would Gibson be an icon?if Jimi Hendrix(and the like) had never played a Fender,would it be an icon?...something to ponder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AndrewGG Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 um,yeah,Cort has a lifetime warranty also,and for those that are misinformed,if you play a schecter,ibanez,squier,anything made in korea or indonesia,it's probably from a Cort factory...i cannot argue reputation though,but,as stated above...if Jimmy Page(and the like) had never played an LP,would Gibson be an icon?if Jimi Hendrix(and the like) had never played a Fender,would it be an icon?...something to ponder... Well there you go; like I said it's a generic guitar from an anonymous factory churning out thousands of badge-engineered products. It isn't something which Gibson USA does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members papaboom Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 Short answer to a long post: You really don't need to defend Gibson. They have lawyers and publicists for that. Yep half are posting in this forum - trying to convince us that poorly-made, over-priced, swiss-cheese versions of Les Pauls are the genuine article..The worst argument you hear against those of us who criticize Gibson's practices do so because we cannot afford them... which is impossible to prove and downright mean-spirited (to people who are less fortunate.) To those assholes - I assure you - MANY of us can afford them..we are just wiser in how we choose to spend our money.Get this - I'm not a Gibson hater.. I revere the name Gibson.. I have played many great Les Paul's in my life. It's for that reason that I criticize them now - they're not living up to the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AndrewGG Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 Yep half are posting in this forum - trying to convince us that poorly-made, over-priced, swiss-cheese versions of Les Pauls are the genuine article..The worst argument you hear against those of us who criticize Gibson's practices do so because we cannot afford them... which is impossible to prove and downright mean-spirited (to people who are less fortunate.) To those assholes - I assure you - MANY of us can afford them..we are just wiser in how we choose to spend our money.Get this - I'm not a Gibson hater.. I revere the name Gibson.. I have played many great Les Paul's in my life. It's for that reason that I criticize them now - they're not living up to the name. I have to disagree; all Les Pauls from the Standard and Traditional up are being Plek'd at the factory; finishes have improved by leaps and bounds and QC is right up there with the best, finally.For your information you can buy a chambered LP or a weight-relieved version or a Traditional. The choice is yours-as well as getting your facts right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jhorne Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 'Less fortunate' always cracks me up. There was a time in my life when I was 'less fortunate'. I got off my ass and did something about it. Too bad others don't have a little drive in them. More excuses than ambition I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trashedlostfdup Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 sure...when you're comparing two models based on the same frame and concept,form the same auto maker...i'm talking about saying that a Gibson lp studio is better than a Cort Z Custom simply because it's US made and says Gibson on it...apples and door knobs brother... Cort Z Custom CONSTRUCTION Set-in BODY Mahogany w/ quilted maple top NECK Maple 3pc, Modern ''C'' Shape NECK WIDTH 1F : 43mm / 22F : 56mm NECK THICKNESS 1F : 19.5mm / 12F : 21.5mm FINGERBOARD Rosewood, 12'' Radius(305mm) FRET 22 / Large (2.7mm) INLAY ''Z'' Mother of Pearl TUNER Locking SCALE 24 3/4'' (629mm) NUT Graphite BRIDGE TonePros Lic. Locking bridge (C-TPFP) w /string thru body PICKUP Seymour Duncan SH1('59) & SH4(JB) (H-H) CONTROL 2vol, 1tone (w/ push pull), 3way toggle PICKUP SWITCHING Coil Tap Push Down Position1 : Neck Position2 : Neck & Bridge Position3 : Bridge Coil Tap Pull up Position1 : Front Coil of Neck Position2 : Front Coil of Neck & Rear Coil of Bridge Position3 : Rear Coil of Bridge HARDWARE GD(Gold) UNIQUE FEATURE Coil Tap Push Down Position1 : Neck Position2 : Neck & Bridge Position3 : Bridge Coil Tap Pull up Position1 : Front Coil of Neck Position2 : Front Coil of Neck & Rear Coil of Bridge Position3 : Rear Coil of Bridge $699 both are made from the same materials.the Cort clearly blows the Gibson away in specs and options and is half the price to boot.yet some will still argue until their last breath that the Gibson is better because,well,"dude,it's a Gibson":rolleyes: lets see which will hold its value better in 20 years. Gibson has a reputation for its quality.Cort doesnt have much of a reputation beyond this forum.Nobody can sanely tell me they would take a Cort over a Gibson if they had adequate funds.There is just no comparason, when it comes to ALL of the following: quality, reputation, long term value, warranty, fit and finish, etc. you are not going to get it elseware.the root of this arguement is sociological. it is the have and the have nots. i hate how it comes down to that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AndrewGG Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 um,yeah,Cort has a lifetime warranty also,and for those that are misinformed,if you play a schecter,ibanez,squier,anything made in korea or indonesia,it's probably from a Cort factory...i cannot argue reputation though,but,as stated above...if Jimmy Page(and the like) had never played an LP,would Gibson be an icon?if Jimi Hendrix(and the like) had never played a Fender,would it be an icon?...something to ponder... Gibson have been in business longer than Jimmy Page and his grandparents have been alive-since 1894 and their reputation for quality was established way before rock was even thought of as a genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members superdistortion Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 I like all guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drunkinminer Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 Yep half are posting in this forum - trying to convince us that poorly-made, over-priced, swiss-cheese versions of Les Pauls are the genuine article..The worst argument you hear against those of us who criticize Gibson's practices do so because we cannot afford them... which is impossible to prove and downright mean-spirited (to people who are less fortunate.) To those assholes - I assure you - MANY of us can afford them..we are just wiser in how we choose to spend our money.Get this - I'm not a Gibson hater.. I revere the name Gibson.. I have played many great Les Paul's in my life. It's for that reason that I criticize them now - they're not living up to the name. Alot of goodpoints. For me I like seeing what I can make out of a lower end guitar. with that being said that's not to say I won't ever buy a higher end guitar or can't afford one it's just that for now I'm happy with what I got. Though i'm considering a US made guitar for my next purchase just haven't decided what I want yet still trying to decide. There are so many to choose from. The thing I don't like about Gibson is that one time I ask my shop if they had any Melody makers and the salesman said that Henry said no MM for Canada. I couldn't believe it the one Gibby I wanted (at the time) and Henry was telling me I couldn't. To me that's not a good move because he is telling me what I want. It's like me telling my customers they can't have beef wellington. For one they are likely to not return and two they will tell people they know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dimmypage Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 Gibson have been in business longer than Jimmy Page and his grandparents have been alive-since 1894 and their reputation for quality was established way before rock was even thought of as a genre. But ole Jimmy has sold a whole {censored}load of Les Pauls:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stratocaster202 Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 Does else anyone find it interesting that this glass door place is teeming for reviews about Gibson it has only 3 reviews for fender, 1 for Dunlop and none for Marshall and Korg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stratocaster202 Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 'Less fortunate' always cracks me up.There was a time in my life when I was 'less fortunate'. I got off my ass and did something about it. Too bad others don't have a little drive in them. More excuses than ambition I guess... I'm not saying you didn't work your arse for your job, but there are more people than there are jobs, I'm sure other people were working there arse's off and just got unlucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_bleeding Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 I also love that the Gibson bashers conveniently forget that Gibson has more than a half-dozen USA made models under $1000. Melody Maker, SG Special, Les Paul Jr, Faded Flying V, Les Paul Studio, Raw Power series, etc. yeah but hteyre all crap. you can get better guitars for cheaper elsewhere. Thats the problem. Quality does not reflect price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dimmypage Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 lets see which will hold its value better in 20 years. Gibson has a reputation for its quality.Cort doesnt have much of a reputation beyond this forum.Nobody can sanely tell me they would take a Cort over a Gibson if they had adequate funds.There is just no comparason, when it comes to ALL of the following: quality, reputation, long term value, warranty, fit and finish, etc. you are not going to get it elseware.the root of this arguement is sociological. it is the have and the have nots. i hate how it comes down to that though. Disregard quality,fit and finnish and warranty and I agree with you:thu: regarding your last statement I say that money cant buy talent and ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Help!I'maRock! Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 lets see which will hold its value better in 20 years. Gibson has a reputation for its quality.Cort doesnt have much of a reputation beyond this forum.Nobody can sanely tell me they would take a Cort over a Gibson if they had adequate funds.There is just no comparason, when it comes to ALL of the following: quality, reputation, long term value, warranty, fit and finish, etc. you are not going to get it elseware.the root of this arguement is sociological. it is the have and the have nots. i hate how it comes down to that though. i'm in the market for a new guitar. show me two of them that meet my criteria. i'll always go with the one that plays the best. honestly, i'll be very surprised if that guitar is a Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members conway Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 After all this bull{censored} about the asian made guitars, I ask.. Does it have Gibson Mojo...NO...... Is it made with great wood...NO............Does it have a great resale value...NO ......Are the vintage guitar from them selling for thousands of dollars...NO...are the companies making them polluting there earth... YES.... and you some of you guys buy them.. Your supporting the asian economy and buying junk.... YOUR {censored}ING NUTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matt Howell Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 I can afford what I want, no Gibsons. I have several trades over the last year on some vintage Gibsons, a few new, and a few used. Flipped all of them and made some nice cash. The only one I liked was the '65 SG Junior Cardinal red Custom Color I traded at Make N' Music in Chicago. It had a killer neck and p-90, none of the others even came close to my Hamers. Gibson and Fenders are for resale for me to get what I really want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joseflovesyou Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 The reason so many guitar companies don't "innovate" their {censored}, is because of all the ridiculous classic rawk purists who think, the original way is the best. That probably makes up 90% of the consumers purchasing high end instruments, so... since they want imperfect classic designs, that's what is going to be built. Things like tele's with the 3 saddle bridge, and Gibson's with the keystone tuners prove that. When the generation of Guitarists who want new {censored} start having some cash in the bank, and the old classic rawk guys get too arthritic to play anymore, maybe we'll see some interesting things from the big companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danhan1113 Posted November 21, 2009 Members Share Posted November 21, 2009 What has Fender put out in the past 55 years that is as innovative as the Stratocaster or Telecaster? Absolutely nothing. I wasn't referring to Fender. I was thinking more along the lines of Ibanez, Jackson, Charvel, PRS, Kramer, ESP, BC Rich, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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