A question about choosing capacitors...

[jelloman]

Hi all...

 

I'm going to be re-doing my Washburn LP and I'm looking at sprague "Orange Drop" .022 caps on allparts...

 

They list both a 200 and a 600 volt model...what's the difference?...which one is preferable for a LP with '57 classics?

 

Thanks!

[Doctor49]

The number is the maximum voltage that the capacitor is rated to deal with.

 

AFAIK there is nowhere near 600v around your guitar.

 

There is a school of thought that says there is an audible difference between different high voltage rated capacitors but I have no first hand experience of that.

 

If you go to www.mylespaul.com forum they will no doubt try to convince you one way or the other.

[igge]

A 5 or 10 volt capacitor from any manufacturer will do. Orange Drops is overkill and a waste of money to put in a guitar. El Cheapo ceramic capacitors will work just as good, you won't be able to hear any difference.

[wagdog]

Those voltage ratings would matter if you were building an amp.

 

In your guitar, the 200v cap will be way more then enough.

[solderjunkie]

 

A 5 or 10 volt capacitor from any manufacturer will do. Orange Drops is overkill and a waste of money to put in a guitar. El Cheapo ceramic capacitors will work just as good, you won't be able to hear any difference.

 

 

Not true.

 

Ceramic caps are very linear in frequency trimming.

 

Sprague Orange Drops are "wet caps"... foil film and oil. They make a very notchy frequency filter.

 

As a tone cap in a guitar, Orange Drops have a cool "cocked wah" sound as the tone pot shunts more signal to ground.

[IdaCrue]

Here is a link that explains the effects of different caps on different pickups and tone. Scroll down to the conclusion if you don't want to wade through the graphs. There used to be a better explanation on a website, but the website has been discontinued. I always use the Orange Drop caps. They don't cost all that much.

http://www.skguitar.com/SKGS/sk/CapTest/CapTest.htm

[guitarcapo]

 

Not true. Ceramic caps are very linear in frequency trimming. Sprague Orange Drops are "wet caps"... foil film and oil. They make a very notchy frequency filter. As a tone cap in a guitar, Orange Drops have a cool "cocked wah" sound as the tone pot shunts more signal to ground.

 

 

nope

[solderjunkie]

 

nope

 

 

Que?:poke:

 

a single-syllable reply is not acceptable.

[Angry Tele]

it doesn't matter unless you are using paper-in-oil in which case the higher the volts the bigger they are. 400 is pretty big, 600 is HUGE. They are mostly made for amps so its hard to find small voltage caps (>400)...But ceramic and poly caps are tiny no matter what, (relatively speaking) so you won't run out of room like you can with p-i-o which can be a pita.

[Quarter]

 

A 5 or 10 volt capacitor from any manufacturer will do. Orange Drops is overkill and a waste of money to put in a guitar. El Cheapo ceramic capacitors will work just as good, you won't be able to hear any difference.

 

The main problem with cheap ceramic caps is they are generally built with very poor tolerances, + / - 20% or more. That means that 2 caps out of the same batch could be as much as 40% different from each other, thats a difference you can hear.

 

I like and use Orange Drops and Mallory 150's. If you shop around you can get them for under / around a $1 or so.

[superdistortion]

A lot of luthiers use ceramic 50 volts. I usually use .022 mylar 100 volts. I like mylar because it harder to damage from a soldering iron than ceramic. The bigger the voltage rating the bigger the cap. Smaller volt and larger volt caps sound the same. The microfarads (?F) is where the tone difference is.

[Angry Tele]

Fender Custom Shop uses cheap ceramic caps in thier Nocasters. Oh nos

[k4df4l]

The microfarads (?F) is where the tone difference is.

 

It's really all about the capacitance

[Pauly 6 String]

So as a wiring newbie who just came across this thread in a search let me get this straight.

 

To replace my .033 capacitor for the tone in my T-60, I only have to find the correct capacitance and the voltage for the component is not much of a concern? 25v vs. 50v is no issue?

 

Do I have this right?

 

Thanks

[Pauly 6 String]

...

[bisticles]

 

So as a wiring newbie who just came across this thread in a search let me get this straight. To replace my .033 capacitor for the tone in my T-60, I only have to find the correct capacitance and the voltage for the component is not much of a concern? 25v vs. 50v is no issue? Do I have this right? Thanks

 

 

That's right. The voltage is the maximum voltage, so unless you plan on sending more than 25 volts through your guitar (hint: no) it'll be just fine.

[Will Chen]

Good read...

 

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2008/Mar/Auditioning_Tone_Capacitors.aspx

 

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2008/Apr/Auditioning_Tone_Capacitors_Part_II.aspx

[Pauly 6 String]

Thank bisticles and Will for the quick replies. Looks like I am breaking out the soldering iron today and will give replacing this thing a go.

[Elazul]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but has anyone tried vintage-style "bumblebee" caps, and if so, do they actually make a noticeable difference? I was considering getting some for my Les Paul a while ago, but I couldn't really justify paying 20-30 pounds for two capacitors.

[jelloman]

Thank bisticles and Will for the quick replies. Looks like I am breaking out the soldering iron today and will give replacing this thing a go.

 

...don't burn your fingers dammit...

 

[Wyatt]

 

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but has anyone tried vintage-style "bumblebee" caps, and if so, do they actually make a noticeable difference? I was considering getting some for my Les Paul a while ago, but I couldn't really justify paying 20-30 pounds for two capacitors.

 

 

Way past the mark of diminished returns. If you want a more vintage-style cap for guitar, find some of the Russian paper-in-oil. They can range from US$2.00 to US$6.00 in price, depending on retailer (less from electronics shops that aren't catering to guitarists or hi-fi nuts). Many of the high-price reproduction caps for guitars are nothing more than these same Russian PIO caps with a reproduction sleeve over top. Otherwise, consider Jupiter Tone Caps, which are built like the old yellow Aston caps found in tweed Fender amps. Both of these options are more expensive than Orange Drops or Mallory 150's or ceramic, but US$12 or so over the course of years you may own a guitar is nothing. HOWEVER, I don't actually think you'll here anything significantly different even if you buy either of these.

 

To the OP, I don't know where you are pricing your Orange Drop's, but you shouldn't be spending more than $1 for a 715/716 series OD. The 715/716 series is polypropylene, they will maintain a little more high end with the Tone on 10 than a polyester 225 OD series.

 

The problem is, most parts suppliers charge a minimum of $6.95 for shipping, even for just two caps. So, shop around. I think Metro Amps is best, his shipping is pretty much what it costs, which means a small shipping amount for small parts.

 

Everyone should own a multimeter, they are as cheap as $8 and in electronics they are as handy as a screwdriver is around the house. Always measure every part that goes into and out of your guitar. Tolerances are often 10-20% and as high as 80% (ceramic caps), so the difference you hear may be the difference in measured value...not construction. If you pull out a ".022uF" ceramic cap that measures .038uF and put in a ".022uF" Orange Drop the measures .021uF, then you can expect a big difference just because of the huge difference in cutoff frequency. If you don't measure it, then one will make the assumption that the brighter sound with the Tone rolled back is because of the different cap, when it's really the different value. And to me, knowing exactly what is in there is important when you decide what the next step is if you aren't happy.

[EADGBE]

 

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but has anyone tried vintage-style "bumblebee" caps, and if so, do they actually make a noticeable difference? I was considering getting some for my Les Paul a while ago, but I couldn't really justify paying 20-30 pounds for two capacitors.

 

I'd pass on the paper in oil caps. They're unreliable. Ceramic or mylar are much better.

[Wyatt]

 

I'd pass on the paper in oil caps. They're unreliable. Ceramic or mylar are much better.

 

 

Not if they are new. One can foot the bill for new Jensens and sleep soundly at night.

 

One should be correctly dissuaded from buying NOS caps which are past their shelf life. I save those for restoration purposes, but most are right at the edge of their tolerances.

[ermghoti II]

 

nope

 

 

Dead wrong. I had a clip where I A/Bed caps of different construction and origin, of the same value. Long after I forgot when and what I had switched on the clip, I could clearly hear a difference. It's not a question of better/worse, I took out a PiO on one guitar and replaced it with an Orange Drop. That said, I've yet to meet a chicklet that can't be improved by throwing it away.

[normh]

 

The number is the maximum voltage that the capacitor is rated to deal with. AFAIK there is nowhere near 600v around your guitar.

 

 

Until your tube amp decoupling circuit (shorted cap) malfunctions and puts 350 - 400 volts on the hot input and you are playing the guitar. It could be... uhmmm... an electrifying experience.

 

However, in the tone circuit of the guitar, you would not be protected from the above. I use period Bumble Bees. There is a mild difference in sound with different caps, but nothing that your amps tone controls cannot clean up.