Convertors: How are you incorporating them into your studio?

[Ernest Buckley]

 

I don't get it for what you need a volume control ---> ?!?

 

 

I have a Mackie mixer I`m trying to bypass so the convertors will now be connected directly to this passive volume controller. According to their site, this unit will not affect the signal in one bit. Whatever the case, its all about which sound I like best so we`ll see. Just posting some updates because I know others will be in the same situation one day...

[UstadKhanAli]

-- but I've seen the gear acquisition syndrome in full grip too many times (and been there once or twice myself, although those times are a bit of a subconscious-self-imposed blur) and I think someone who wants to make the least number of questionable gear choices or unnecessary purchase possible has to develop some finely attuned circuit breakers...

 

My wallet is the circuit breaker. That and hopefully a tiny bit of common sense.

[blue2blue]

My wallet is the circuit breaker. That and hopefully a tiny bit of common sense.

I think that's why poor people make more music even though they often have to scramble harder in other areas just to get by...

 

With less money, there's less self-feeding GAS ('cause we all know that one preamp buys the next), less obsession with shopping, collecting opinions, comparing and contrasting, reading endless threads by people (who may well have really limited experience with the gear in question and never even sat down to do a sighted comparison, let alone a blind one), and less agonizing about your decision and less desperate attempts to justify it by defending it to the last post -- and then going out and buying something else to replace it 'cause, secretly, the haters convinced you...

[Ernest Buckley]

I think that's why poor people make more music even though they often have to scramble harder in other areas just to get by... With less money, there's less self-feeding GAS ('cause we all know that one preamp buys the next), less obsession with shopping, collecting opinions, comparing and contrasting, reading endless threads by people (who may well have really limited experience with the gear in question and never even sat down to do a sighted comparison, let alone a blind one), and less agonizing about your decision and less desperate attempts to justify it by defending it to the last post -- and then going out and buying something else to replace it 'cause, secretly, the haters convinced you...

 

Blue, I agree again, especially that last line... considering this is a major run on sentence where you said "and then going out and buying something else to replace it 'cause, secretly, the haters convinced you...".

 

I`ve been getting by on my MOTU 2408 MKII for the last 10 years. However, 10 years ago I did have a Mackie d8b mixer which to my ears, had better convertors on it than the 2408. Once I got in the box, the mixes started to sound... like they were muffled; especially vocals. And the bottom end sort of lost its balls. Not too happy about that as you can imagine from one guy to another.

 

The funny thing is I`ve been producing several songs this week and have not used the Rosetta. I am doing this deliberately... I will eventually re-record the songs through the Rosetta and the UA as well. I`m talking about tracks with acoustic guitars, electric guitars, bass and lots of vocals. I want to judge each unit on the same material and I also want to do it with something I have not had much time to live with, thats why I`m using new songs. Then of course, I will mix both songs through all 3 convertors (2408, Rosetta and the UA).

 

At that point, if I still cannot hear a definitive difference, I will either retire and spend my days crocheting or I may pursue my life long dream to become... a drummer.

 

[Beck]

...or I may pursue my life long dream to become... a drummer.

But what kind of drums? Which brand cymbals? What sticks? What stool? What brand sweatbands for your wrists? :poke:

I recommend everyone buy a used Echo Layla 24/96 because the converters are so nice and cost effective. I

[Ernest Buckley]

But what kind of drums? Which brand cymbals? What sticks? What stool? What brand sweatbands for your wrists? :poke: I recommend everyone buy a used Echo Layla 24/96 because the converters are so nice and cost effective. I

[blue2blue]

Blue, I agree again, especially that last line... considering this is a major run on sentence where you said "and then going out and buying something else to replace it 'cause, secretly, the haters convinced you..." . I`ve been getting by on my MOTU 2408 MKII for the last 10 years. However, 10 years ago I did have a Mackie d8b mixer which to my ears, had better convertors on it than the 2408. Once I got in the box, the mixes started to sound... like they were muffled; especially vocals. And the bottom end sort of lost its balls. Not too happy about that as you can imagine from one guy to another. The funny thing is I`ve been producing several songs this week and have not used the Rosetta. I am doing this deliberately... I will eventually re-record the songs through the Rosetta and the UA as well. I`m talking about tracks with acoustic guitars, electric guitars, bass and lots of vocals. I want to judge each unit on the same material and I also want to do it with something I have not had much time to live with, thats why I`m using new songs. Then of course, I will mix both songs through all 3 convertors (2408, Rosetta and the UA). At that point, if I still cannot hear a definitive difference, I will either retire and spend my days crocheting or I may pursue my life long dream to become... a drummer.

It's not exactly elegant -- but it's not a run-on. It's a simple list -- although the last item is a bit of a cluster F, with the hyphenated apposition.

 

 

Back to the issue at hand... I know you were kidding in that last line about packing it in if you couldn't tell the diff between old MOTU's and the new upper-mid stuff but... well... there really are people who seem to think like that.

 

But the ability to pick between a couple different converters is of so little consequence to being able to make good-sounding, emotionally satisfying music I just feel like I have to belabor the point.

 

 

A few weeks back I was among those 'golden ears' in a GearSlutz thread (set up by Ethan Winder and Kenny Gioia) who were able to correctly identify between three carefully prepared blind test samples: one an original transcription from a CD through a mid-grade converter, another a second pass copy of that through the same converter and the third a second pass copy of the original transcription through a Sound Blaster. Lots of folks either couldn't or got it wrong. (But a fair number got it right.)

 

I patted myself on the back (and was secretly a little relieved) but, honest to gosh, I am utterly convinced that that ability buys me precious little in terms of making music. Pretty much nothing.

 

I know I don't tap out my quite modest gear. (current chain: RODE NT1, Mackie VLZ pres, ART Levelar hardware compressor, MOTU 828mkII, currently monitoring through NS10m's. I do have a bunch of gear in the other room I almost never use. And a pair of Event 20/20bas I like but are impractical to leave set up in my current circumstance -- unless I want to risk having one of our frequent earthquakes toss a 50 pound speaker out the window. )

 

I could go a long way toward having better quality recordings just by exercising more care and discipline -- not to mention putting a lot more effort into the musical side of things, which I'm usually far too lackadaisical about.

 

Obviously, everyone's situation is different but I'm pretty convinced by most of what I hear out there that the pervasive problems are lack of knowledge, practical skill, care, attention to musicality, lack of solid musical priorities, poor grasp on interrelationships between different elements of the recording and mix chain, and a general lack of musical sensitivity. Bad gear? It's far, far down the list.

 

I think a lot of folk cling to the notion that it's their gear holding them back for ego reasons.

[Ernest Buckley]

It's not exactly elegant -- but it's not a run-on. It's a simple list -- although the last item is a bit of a cluster F, with the hyphenated apposition. Back to the issue at hand... I know you were kidding in that last line about packing it in if you couldn't tell the diff between old MOTU's and the new upper-mid stuff but... well... there really are people who seem to think like that. But the ability to pick between a couple different converters is of so little consequence to being able to make good-sounding, emotionally satisfying music I just feel like I have to belabor the point. A few weeks back I was among those 'golden ears' in a GearSlutz thread (set up by Ethan Winder and Kenny Gioia) who were able to correctly identify between three carefully prepared blind test samples: one an original transcription from a CD through a mid-grade converter, another a second pass copy of that through the same converter and the third a second pass copy of the original transcription through a Sound Blaster. Lots of folks either couldn't or got it wrong. (But a fair number got it right.) I patted myself on the back (and was secretly a little relieved) but, honest to gosh, I am utterly convinced that that ability buys me precious little in terms of making music. Pretty much nothing . I know I don't tap out my quite modest gear. (current chain: RODE NT1, Mackie VLZ pres, ART Levelar hardware compressor, MOTU 828mkII, currently monitoring through NS10m's. I do have a bunch of gear in the other room I almost never use. And a pair of Event 20/20bas I like but are impractical to leave set up in my current circumstance -- unless I want to risk having one of our frequent earthquakes toss a 50 pound speaker out the window. ) I could go a long way toward having better quality recordings just by exercising more care and discipline -- not to mention putting a lot more effort into the musical side of things, which I'm usually far too lackadaisical about. Obviously, everyone's situation is different but I'm pretty convinced by most of what I hear out there that the pervasive problems are lack of knowledge, practical skill, care, attention to musicality, lack of solid musical priorities, poor grasp on interrelationships between different elements of the recording and mix chain, and a general lack of musical sensitivity. Bad gear? It's far, far down the list. I think a lot of folk cling to the notion that it's their gear holding them back for ego reasons.

 

Yeah, I hear ya. At this point, I think I`m more curious to hear if there is any truth behind all the hoopla with higher end convertors. Granted thats a subjective term because here I am looking at 2 AD/DAs, one topping out at $3gs when there are just AD convertors out there for the same price. So, again, its all subjective and as always, let your ears decide so thats why I`m auditioning different units. It was made clear to Sweetwater that I may be returning everything if I don`t hear what I want to hear. I could definitely invest $3gs on other things.

[the stranger]

Drop the 3g's on something better. Like a nice Reel to Reel. You'll get more mileage out of that than some a/d converters. Plus, it's cooler.

[Ernest Buckley]

The UA just arrived... unpacking and wiring it up... let the shootout begin.

[Ernest Buckley]

Quick Update: The convertor battle is still on between the Rosetta 200 and the UA2192.

 

Been using the UA2192 for the last week. I`m not going to review each unit here, thats not the intention of the thread and granted, everyone has their own tastes so... but I am using a Passive Volume Controller to work around the Mackie 1402 mixer and noticed an immediate improvement in the low end. The bass response is a lot more focused and the attacks hit you in the gut. Its refreshing. Even recording vocals through the Avalon 737s... its just a cleaner and fuller sound.

[temnov]

Ernest, did you choose your new convertor?

[Ernest Buckley]

Ernest, did you choose your new convertor?

 

 

I returned both units. Of the two, I preferred the UA2192. The build quality was far superior to the Rosetta as well. Though both units improved my mixes as far as I could hear: tighter bass, more focused mids and less harsher highs, I did not feel the $1700-$2500 investment was worth the price. So I will continue to work with my current setup and audition other pieces with due time.

[temnov]

Thanks!

I'm probably in the same boat right now. I want the new one but I can deal with what I've got.

[Ernest Buckley]

Thanks! I'm probably in the same boat right now. I want the new one but I can deal with what I've got.

 

 

My attitude at this point is to live with what I have. If these convertors were in the $1000-$1500 region I may have kept the UA because to my ears, it was the better piece and it just was made so solidly whereas the Apogee 200 was very flimsy. They both sounded good but I could not honestly say either piece was worthy of the price tag. The sound was improved but was it worth $1750 for the Rosetta or $2500 for the UA? In my opinion, no.

 

I`m also considering the Benchmark DA and the Mytek stuff. We`ll see...

[bp]

Well, I started this same thread over as GS but I kept the OP shorter... sparing everyone over there. Basically you need a passive volume controller to hear the convertor in all its glory. There are several on the market... this one seems to be sufficient for my needs and for $119, it seems like a good deal. We`ll see... Its coming next Wednesday. The 2192 is arriving the day after. Stay tuned.

 

 

If this is passive, why does it need power?

[philbo]

I use them at two places -

One: Between my mic preamp & the PC

Two: Between the PC & my monitor amp...

(It's seems so obvious now...)