Floating bridges...two springs or three?

[genesis3]

a floyd style...or actually even the simpler types on a cheapie Ibanez for example......3 springs can probably be loosened by the two bolts in the back to give a softer, spongier feel to the whammy bar , but then you start losing the nice parallel look and feel of the bridge to the guitar body, assuming 440 standard tuning. No good.

 

2 springs is super responsive , just great...if you really crank the bolts holding the springs , the bridge can stay nice and relatively parallel with the body with 440 standard tuning. But the tuning irregularities with heavy use are a bit too much. Wots the solution mon? Are there magic springs that give the super easy responsiveness with the bar, yet stay magically in tune??? Assume the pivot point knife edges are AOK and not the problem.

[ken361]

i have 2 in my kramer is that why it doesn't hold in tune as good? I dont hammer the floyed that hard.

[Scott Abene]

3 springs

 

 

[webwarmiller]

I've got 3 springs on all of my Floyd guitars (strung with 10's). It would be impossible to set up my guitars with just 2 springs as they could never be adjusted far enough to balance the bridge......claw can only be screwed in so far.

[Les Paul Lover]

Not a floyd, but my Vigier has a a 3 spring floating tremolo - very stable, keeps tuning very well, but no knife edge - they've used heavy duty ball bearings.

Also entering the fray are the rolling saddles & the graphite nut.

 

All in all, it comes back to tuning or on my tuner at 0.05 close - I can't hear that difference.

[Les Paul Lover]

I thought I'd better add that before I adjusted the nut, using the vibrato wasn't an option. Now that I've opened up the nut for the problematic strings, I have no more problems (though I might have anther go on the string that goes off by .05 just for the sake of it).

[humbuckerstrat]

It depends on what string gauge you're using and the length and strength of the springs. For instance, the springs I got with my SX Strat are shorter than "regular" springs, so I ony needed two. I wish I could get some more like that.

[Orange Jackson]

I use 2 on strat type trems.

 

Would like to use 2 on floyds as well, but as you have noted above, it doesn't really work.

 

A floyd needs to be set almost perfectly horizontal with the top surface of the body to hold tunning well. This way the string tension and spring tension are equal and you don't get one of them over powering the other, and so pulling the guitar out of tune.

 

There inevitably is debate about that point, some will say it does not matter. It has always made a big difference on my guitars, and if you look at Mr. Floyd Rose's web page he states that the floyd has to be set this way or the tunning will suffer.

[Scott Abene]

I should have stated that I use GHS Super Steels... .010-.046

[cephus]

on my old 80s kramer, I used 2 springs for a while with 10s and it was much more flickable and i liked the action much more. However, i really had a hard time with other strings going out of tune when i bent one. I started using 3 springs and it was way stiffer. even though the bridge was exactly parallel to the guitar top with 2 or 3. so, it's not just the spring tension. There's something else at work there.

 

Right now, I have it with 3 springs and it feels very heavy and wooden. i think it's a great idea to take a spring off and give 2 a whirl again. Thanks for the idea.

[webwarmiller]

 

I used 2 springs for a while with 10s and it was much more flickable......However, i really had a hard time with other strings going out of tune when i bent one. I started using 3 springs and it was way stiffer.

 

 

Extension springs (the kind used on trems) have a Rate:

1. Extend spring to a length (L1) such that definite coil separation occurs and measure the load (P1).

2. Extend spring further to a second length (L2) and again measure the load (P2).

3. Calculate rate by dividing the load difference by the length difference in: R = (P2 - P1)/(L2- L1)

 

You can think of it as how much force does it take to extend the spring a given distance. So, when you have 2 springs they must be extened further to provide the same force as 3. Now, when you press down on the trem arm the block moves away from the claw. With 2 springs you only have to extend 2 springs while 3 you have to extend 3. So, while the force is EQUAL btw as set of either 2 or 3 springs with the bridge at rest (and parallel); to move it a set distance requires 1.5X the force with 3 springs over 2....50% is VERY noticeable....

[Bro Blue]

Even with nines I have never been able to use two springs with a Floyd.

 

I have an Ibanez S620EX1 with the ZR trem and it uses two springs when you take the zero return bar out and free float it. Very nice and responsive, warbles nicely, stays in tune.

[EADGBE]

It's hard to play power chords etc. with just two springs. Too much warble.

[BuckshotJenkins]

May I join in? I wonder...if you have a flush mounted floyd aka Edward, and want to have 10's on the guitar, can the tension be set (maybe only two springs / ) to make the bridge "almost teetering" on the verge of floating forward?

 

I really hate having heavy handed bends and double stops ruined by floating tremolos, but never really noticed how much more muscle is needed to pull the bar down on a flush. Ed makes it look effortless (and i seen a two spring / pic of his guitar). i get much better harmonics and feedback to play with with a floating bridge...I just feel like I should go ahead and put on the dress and swish around!

 

ZR tremolos look like a decent middle ground, or a tremel-no. Dang, what a tough trade-off! I love Ed the most, but my band is more Hum/Nirvana meets Zappa/Primus than that adorable wanker metal. I put a floyd guitar on for a couple songs, getting all the tasty squeals/cheap thrills wrapped up before they get cliched. Picking my battles make me seem pretty good!

[Bro Blue]

Unless you have really stout springs, using two for anything bigger than nine gauge strings, it seems to me, is asking for stability issues.

[webwarmiller]

 

May I join in? I wonder...if you have a flush mounted floyd aka Edward, and want to have 10's on the guitar, can the tension be set (maybe only two springs / ) to make the bridge "almost teetering" on the verge of floating forward?

 

 

Of course, but you would almost definitely need 3 springs with 10's. All you are doing is setting the spring tension just a hair stronger than what would be needed if the bridge was truly floating and parallel.

[Orange Jackson]

I tried 2 springs with 9s even, that's all I've ever played, but I just couldn't get it to work. I'm all ears if some knows a way to make it work out though.

[BuckshotJenkins]

web, quite obvious as you demonstrate...hearing that makes me excited to look into a axis or something similar, and get that substantial tension lessened for the dives. wonder if i'll be able to hold off using the bar except for songs that really need it. thanks!

[billybilly]

I use 4, takes some adjusting though.

[DeadNight Warrior]

Depends on the string tension.

 

On the Edwards I just sold the other week, I only had two springs in the back. Made for very easy Floyd work, to the point where you could make the trem flutter wildly by just tapping on the body rather than the normal bar technique. But that guitar had 10s tuned down a whole step. When it was in standard E it had 3 springs.

 

My 7s all have 4 springs in there, but that's a bit different.