Members BlueStrat Posted February 12, 2008 Members Share Posted February 12, 2008 The Albini article is good for what it is, but it really doesn't reperesent the state of the business today. It represents as small slice of it, but a lot has changed since he wrote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrbass Posted February 12, 2008 Members Share Posted February 12, 2008 Beware the '360 deal'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bostonwal Posted February 12, 2008 Members Share Posted February 12, 2008 Besides the usual "make sure you understand everything you sign" lesson from Albini, I also learned from that article to be disciplined about all expenses related to the band. Make sure you ("you" in general, not necessarily the OP, who sounds experienced in this stuff) account for all money spent in the name of the band. Don't let some idiot say you need X when you could go with a cheaper Y. Every dime spent is being covered by the record company and they'll need to be paid back first. So keep your expenses low! A huge factor in U2s early success was Paul McGuiness' iron fist regarding expenses. During their first tour of the UK, McGuiness set a stipend of $25 a day for each of the band members - not much of a rock and roll lifestyle with that kind of money! But they stayed in the black and were able to take the next step. I believe they were all still living at home with their parents through the War album. That's financial discipline for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sabriel9v Posted February 12, 2008 Members Share Posted February 12, 2008 Besides the usual "make sure you understand everything you sign" lesson from Albini, I also learned from that article to be disciplined about all expenses related to the band. Make sure you ("you" in general, not necessarily the OP, who sounds experienced in this stuff) account for all money spent in the name of the band. Don't let some idiot say you need X when you could go with a cheaper Y. Every dime spent is being covered by the record company and they'll need to be paid back first. So keep your expenses low! A huge factor in U2s early success was Paul McGuiness' iron fist regarding expenses. During their first tour of the UK, McGuiness set a stipend of $25 a day for each of the band members - not much of a rock and roll lifestyle with that kind of money! But they stayed in the black and were able to take the next step. I believe they were all still living at home with their parents through the War album. That's financial discipline for you! Overall good management is key in order to take things to the next level. To obtain that now, an artist has to have a solid music resume consisting of strong fanbases in more than one or two areas, usually an ep or lp out, and an overall good reputation around town as smart and savvy businesspersons. Ideally all of the aforementioned things should be set in place before signing a deal. Otherwise the label has more room to dictate their terms to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members diceman1000 Posted February 12, 2008 Members Share Posted February 12, 2008 awsome music bud...hope all works out for you.i'm trying to get into the red dirt scene myself... Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lurko Posted February 12, 2008 Members Share Posted February 12, 2008 Yes, I have read the Albini article, I have also read Martin Atkins' book, "Tour:Smart" and just about everything else out there that is commercially available on the music industry. You might say that I have a desire to educate myself. Interestingly, did you note that Albini and Atkins both played in Pigface and maintained a relationship by playing in a lot of other bands (though not at the same time)? It would seem that they ran (maybe still run) in the same circles. I find it engaging that these two opinions are on the whole vastly different and disagree on several key points alltogether. Though I find it good to get different opinions, it would seem to me that Albini is thoroughly negative in personality and has suffered misfortune through a general lack of business accumen. Yeah, Albini doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to the music biz. Forget him. What has he done, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted February 12, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2008 Sorry, I meant to stress "Go team! You're gonna be huge! Don't even bother reading the contract! Yeah, Albini doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to the music biz. Forget him. What has he done, really? Well you have to accept that Albini writes from a rather bitter perspective; not to say he fails to make valid points, but to some degree he was his own worst enemy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 13, 2008 Members Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well you have to accept that Albini writes from a rather bitter perspective; not to say he fails to make valid points, but to some degree he was his own worst enemy... And that article is several years old. The music business has made some quantum changes in that time, making much of what he wrote about back then irrelevant. I believe he'd be the first to admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members germs Posted February 13, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 13, 2008 Interesting... Thanks again for the words of encouragement and management advice. And thank you all who have come to my defence and seen the way of the positive thought process. I'll be the first to admit that it is hard to see what's around every corner out there, however, I do plan on keeping forseeable expenses under wraps. While only time will tell the outcome of this whole endeavour, I must take it one day at a time. I hold the purse strings for the band as it stands now, and with the proper negotiation, that will remain unchanged. I'm known to have somewhat of an iron fist myself, and my bassist is "worse" (if that's your perspective) than me. Take, for instance, the issue of transportation to and from shows: Bus or Van? Which costs less? What is more reasonable? The obvious answer is the van and trailer route. What most artists fail to realize in the beginning is that the band WILL end up paying for that one way or another. We, as a vast majority of musicicans out there, are a far cry from being comp'd the expenses of the road in favor of large ticket gross. But I guess that this is a case by case example of a challenge, and everybody has their own answer and reason. What is right for us is not necessarily the right choice for everyone else. But that is far off topic. I DO appreciate all of the valid advice I have gotten from the HC'ers out there. But if this is going to turn into another flame fest, I would just as soon stop posting to the topic. Face it, I have made valid arguements, and while I welcome all commentary in defence of free speech, still I get emotional and/or sarcastic responses from probable "fans". When you have a valid point to make of your own, please feel free to respond. I choose not to respond in kind to those of you who are making the negative remarks in attempting to travel the moral highground, but I am only human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twohands Posted February 13, 2008 Members Share Posted February 13, 2008 having gone through this in the past year, I can offer a bit of advice. 1. Get a good lawyer2. Get a good manager from a reputable management company(this is really important) 3. Your the hot girl at the prom. If your really good, once one label knows, they all know. Use this and don't worry if they pass the first time, this is the begining, it will take months from when the first a&r agent comes to get the deal done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundwave106 Posted February 13, 2008 Members Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well you have to accept that Albini writes from a rather bitter perspective; not to say he fails to make valid points, but to some degree he was his own worst enemy... I've mentioned this before, but I think the best points of the Albini piece are the points he doesn't say. If his example band treated an advance like a business loan instead of free cash that they can blow on fancy new gear and the like, maybe they wouldn't have been in the hole and actually had some nice income. Granted, the music corporations and managers (back then at least) didn't discourage spending all your advance immediately, which is unlike any other lender you will run into. But still, there are points in Albini's article that go beyond Albini moaning about how the music business will {censored} you and your band over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FireWithin Posted February 13, 2008 Members Share Posted February 13, 2008 def not a new sound but it sounds {censored}ing great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lurko Posted February 13, 2008 Members Share Posted February 13, 2008 To the OP, look, I said originally (and meant it) that I sincerely hope you guys do well. The reason I pointed to that Albini article is that it points out lots of pitfalls that people in your position have made that you don't have to if you heed their example. Don't believe for a minute that the "industry has changed" since Albini wrote that (admittedly bitter) article. The methods may have changed, but one overriding aspect of the record company experience has not: The record companies do not care what you sound like. They do not care about your art. They do not care about you. They care about one thing and one thing only. Can you make them money. If you go in with that stamped on your brain, overriding all other flashing dollar signs and fawning A&R guys, you have a chance at not getting {censored}ed. I sincerely wish you good luck with this. Be smart, be wary, and negotiate a good deal between your lawyer and theirs. And finally, don't only listen to people who tell you what you want to hear or you will really be doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny-Boy Posted February 13, 2008 Members Share Posted February 13, 2008 Exactly - money is the bottom-line. The lifespan of an A&R person is less than a Luna moth's lifespan. Most A&R people have one chance to prove themselves. One financial failure - and it's the axe! So they aren't going to take chances with artistic considerations. Reality check; it's money, money, money! I hope you guys overcome the obstacles Germ. It appears that at least you're in the running - which is a huge step. Best, John:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesway Posted February 13, 2008 Members Share Posted February 13, 2008 . . . When you have a valid point to make of your own, please feel free to respond. I choose not to respond in kind to those of you who are making the negative remarks in attempting to travel the moral highground, but I am only human . . . .i can only wonder where my comments fell on your 'moral high ground' scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members leadguitarman1 Posted February 13, 2008 Members Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hey... all the bull{censored} aside... wish you guys all the best of luck and have a great time at it.. I'll be waiting to hear ya's playing live sometime at a "big" show.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted February 13, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 13, 2008 And that article is several years old. The music business has made some quantum changes in that time, making much of what he wrote about back then irrelevant. I believe he'd be the first to admit that. True, but I was looking at it in its original perspective, and why his 'tone' was as it was...he made mistakes, he's bitter...wah, wah:cry:...but definitely much of his experiences are relics of a bygone era now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pdiddy Posted February 14, 2008 Members Share Posted February 14, 2008 Since this is all about giving opinions, here's my .02. I listened to the clips and agree with earlier posters you guys are good at what you do. If you were the among the first bands with "that" sound you might have already made it. However I don't see much commercial potential in todays market for your kind of thing. Its probably a bit too heavy for popular commercial tastes. It seems like the kind of music that's going to rely heavily on the vocalists star power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cygnus64 Posted February 14, 2008 Members Share Posted February 14, 2008 Congrats, I hope it all works out. Now for the Negative Nancys out there: Call em "Practical Pams". Its not so much a negativity as a general concern. I am signed to one of the big 3. My CD is done and paid for, it was supposed to come out in 2007 (its a christmas CD) but it was pushed back to 2008. What does that mean? It means I am in limbo. I cannot record this style of music for anyone else. Actually, I could be in limbo for several years, because they have 2 years to renew my contract, so I literally could be on hold until november of 2010. I am 43, I will be 46 then. Again, thats worst case scenario. Therefore, think about things like that before you sign. It never occured to me that the album would be pushed back a year. Actually, there is no guarantee it will ever come out. I think it will, its a kickass album and all the players are established pros. I signed 5 contracts: a long form, short form, an overall and two for publishing. I look at it this way: I couldnt possibly turn it down. I got a small advance, not a whole lot but enough. The record is paid for and I had the luxury of hiring a 10 piece string section, not cheap (union players). Anyhoo, if the damn album actually comes out, it might be a pretty interesting ride. Good luck to ya, and take some time to think about the variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted February 14, 2008 Members Share Posted February 14, 2008 Congrats, I hope it all works out. Call em "Practical Pams". Its not so much a negativity as a general concern. I am signed to one of the big 3. My CD is done and paid for, it was supposed to come out in 2007 (its a christmas CD) but it was pushed back to 2008. What does that mean? It means I am in limbo. I cannot record this style of music for anyone else. Actually, I could be in limbo for several years, because they have 2 years to renew my contract, so I literally could be on hold until november of 2010. I am 43, I will be 46 then. Again, thats worst case scenario. Therefore, think about things like that before you sign. It never occured to me that the album would be pushed back a year. Actually, there is no guarantee it will ever come out. I think it will, its a kickass album and all the players are established pros. I signed 5 contracts: a long form, short form, an overall and two for publishing. I look at it this way: I couldnt possibly turn it down. I got a small advance, not a whole lot but enough. The record is paid for and I had the luxury of hiring a 10 piece string section, not cheap (union players). Anyhoo, if the damn album actually comes out, it might be a pretty interesting ride. Good luck to ya, and take some time to think about the variables. It's the same with publishing , you have to make sure that the deal will time out in a reasonably short time in case they just sit on it. All of this just reminds me of how important it is to get help in these matters. Even if you are in the new breed of musician who is more enlightened and actually has spent time thinking about all this , and have bought a couple of books that you slogged through ..( I have ; like a root canal with a dull drill !) you cannot possibly hang with people who do this stuff day in and day out. A contract is so variable and full of nuance... don't believe that there is a "standard " set of parameters. Get a Pro.Get a specialist who has years of experience in these specific matters : you 'll be glad you did!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Booya Tribe Posted February 14, 2008 Members Share Posted February 14, 2008 I am signed to one of the big 3. My CD is done and paid for, it was supposed to come out in 2007 (its a christmas CD) but it was pushed back to 2008. What does that mean? It means I am in limbo. I cannot record this style of music for anyone else. Actually, I could be in limbo for several years, because they have 2 years to renew my contract, so I literally could be on hold until november of 2010. I am 43, I will be 46 then. Again, thats worst case scenario. I have a question Cygnus. You said you are not allowed to record for anyone else in the same style. Does that mean Christmas music only, or in general, any type of album at all that is in the same style? If you are completely prohibited from recording for anyone even non-Christmas music, that is really bad! I hope you get a lot when the album comes out, because otherwise, they are basically taking a year's worth of work away from you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackened01 Posted February 15, 2008 Members Share Posted February 15, 2008 The recording industry... You will never find a more retched hive of Scum and villany. We must be cautious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cygnus64 Posted February 15, 2008 Members Share Posted February 15, 2008 I have a question Cygnus. You said you are not allowed to record for anyone else in the same style. Does that mean Christmas music only, or in general, any type of album at all that is in the same style? If you are completely prohibited from recording for anyone even non-Christmas music, that is really bad! I can play on any album as a session player. What I cannot do is compete with the product as a writer/producer, which in this case is something like Mannheim Steamroller with a more classical slant. I can do a straight out classical disc, but not a classical-rock fusion one like the one that they paid for. It was hardly a megabudget, at the same time it was more money than the average Joe could get together to make an album, especially with union rates which are sky high. Anyhoo, hopefully the album will come out in Nov of 2008. If not, I'm pretty sure they have to cut me loose and thats pretty much the end of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members germs Posted February 18, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 18, 2008 Sorry, it's been a busy few weeks... I'll admit that the soundclips on the website are garbage. Our myspace has the full songs (acutally almost the entire album) available to listen to for free. www.myspace.com/abruptmusic I just didn't post it originally because I didn't want the "style" of the band to color the real opinions of the question originally asked. However, things at HC always go off topic, so this is no exception. Yes, the label interested is one of the "Big 3". And if you look a little further up the food chain, there's really only the "Big 2" left anymore. Stylistically, I fully believe that there is an audience out there. If there were not an audience for our specific genre of hard-rock/whatever you want to call it, then why the attention from the suitor? Why the big shows? Why are we first call in the reigon for Top and Second Tier acts looking for a local opener? There is a large backlash in the musical clubs going on right now. No one wants to hear eighteen year olds whining about "life experience". Even the other eighteen year olds that formerly packed the clubs have enough common sense to recognize the total bullsh*t emanating from the speakers. Emo/punk/post-hardcore whatever is a passing fad. Like all new fads, it'll get a lot of attention at first, and then it will go away and die. Anyone remember Thursday, Thrice, The Used, Yellowcard, Glassjaw? What happenned to their HUGE following? I remember reading in Guitar World about how astronomically huge these bands would be forever. And look at them now. The kids grew up, and more importantly, grew tired of hearing grown-ass men whining about how unfair life is. People still want MELODY, HARMONY, and STORY within a song. People still want the escapist fantasy experience at a show. We provide the audience with that. That is the bottom line. What the people want is what the people get. We are entertainers and musicians first and foremost, and we are there to do a specific job and get paid for it. It is only wonderful coincidence that we happen to write music that people can relate to and enjoy. As an artist, this is incredibly fulfilling. The above is a bold statement, but in the true spirit of the HC forums, I'll go off topic and ask: Can anyone tell me otherwise? Maybe I'll post this to a new topic and let ya'll discuss at length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members clayface74 Posted February 21, 2008 Members Share Posted February 21, 2008 The above is a bold statement, but in the true spirit of the HC forums, I'll go off topic and ask: Can anyone tell me otherwise? Don't let anyone fool you! You guys have a great sound that I believe is becoming more the mainstream everyday. I remember when Metallica was "Heavey"...I turn on the radio now and hear Mushroomhead, slipknot...whoa? I think you guys are the in between right where you should be. In 1995 I was singing in a band that was the headliner...covers of pantera, metallica, chains...etc. The band that opened for us had this guy singing named Ryan McCombs...He had the look, and presense that I could only dream of...Vocaly,,even playing field...he had and still has the it factor!! Looking at your myspace ...listening to your material...Perception is reality....Kid Rock wrote in a song he went platinum 7 times before he even sold a record!! Keep rockin...what your doing is staying around a long time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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