I Have Sonar X1 Up and Running Here...

[Anderton]

Speaking of colors, can you post some pics? I don't see any difference in importing color presets nor assigning colors to object in X1. It stays the same but for one or two things like a background.

 

 

I'll post a picture when I boot up the 64-bit machine later.

 

 

X1 is bumming me out after getting past the 'new' look. The ProChannel is a huge plus, but it doesn't compensate for the changes and lack of what used to be available in SONAR (customization, tool bars, etc.). In fact, utilizing effects in the PC drags my machine down in a big way. Which bring me to ponder why the Bakers justify raising the required specs and not working to make SONAR run more efficiently. I am experiencing more cons then what pros I find...and believe me, I am still looking.

 

 

Very sorry to hear that. I too was not happy about the customization options going away, until I realized that the way the interface was now, with things like the clips/tracks tabs and properties in the Inspector, made a lot of my customizations obsolete. As mentioned previously, the one thing that doesn't work for me is the new control bar except when dealing with a dual-monitor environment; even then, I preferred my own custom toolbar.

 

Haven't noticed a performance hit at all...then again, 8 cores can really shove these instructions around fast. OTOH it's been my experience that performance gets tweaked in subsequent revisions as they wrap their heads around the code better.

 

The main "pro" for me is that I can work much faster. But, it did take me a whlie to a) unlearn some of my muscle memory responses, b) learn the new ones, and c) customize the layout to really fit my workflow. Then it was smooth sailing. I wouldn't want to go back to 8.5...give it a bit more time.

 

 

P.S. Craig, why did you start your review here and not in the Pro Review forum?

 

 

This is just an informal "got questions?" thread. Don't want to commit to doing a full pro review, at least not yet.

[Anderton]

Craig, You'd mentioned elsewhere that X1 is more laptop friendly than 8.5, and with what I've seen of the UI. At first glance, I'd have to agree, as it looks a lot like Logic, and docking helps enormously, but is it true that some objects are larger in X1 which would effectively eat up valuable laptop screen real estate, or do you still think it is viable to use X1 on a laptop.

Well...really, no DAW is ideal on a laptop, just lesser degrees of suckiness. However, I do thnk X1 is a huge improvement over 8.5 IF you set up screensets and get into the habit of using them. The main difference is that instead of having windows open up and having to move and resize them, the windows in X1 open up in place of existing windows. So for example, if you want to bounce between the loop construction window and the MIDI piano roll editor, you can hit a tab and the desired window replaces the previous window. Same kind of thing with the mixer - hit hide, and it becomes a little strip along the bottom and track view takes over. Show the mixer, and it takes over.

I still think the most "laptop-friendly" interface of all the major players is Ableton Live, but X1 isn't far behind...in fact as I get to know it better, it may reach parity.

With 8.5 and now X1, I see Sonar incorporating the best bits and pieces from other players - with the exception of the staff view. I don't need a super notation rewired into Sonar - the notation functionality of Logic would be just fine - unless of course if Melodyne features were included

Staff view isn't important to what I do, in case you're wondering why I don't care about it all that much. But you can tell Cakewalk I can't live without Staff view if you think that would help

I'm still on the fence regarding a switch to a Mac and using my XSkey to upgrade to Logic 9 - it has so much to offer in one package. Then again, I'm sure that there are still some illogical implementations in there. But, X1 has made the decision harder. With Acid support, the Matrix view, the new improved UI and workflow, edit filtering, the smart tool, etc. - Sonar is looking really solid. And I have an existing investment in Producer 8.5. In the end what matters is the software not getting in the way of the creative flow.

Logic is a fine program, no doubt about that. I do find Sonar easier to grasp, but people who were raised on Logic find everything else difficult to grasp . The main pro to Logic AFAIC is the package - you get so much stuff with it. Not just plug-ins but other programs, like MainStage. OTOH I'm not totally in love with all the plug-ins; for example. I'd rather use AmpliTube, Guitar Rig, POD Farm, GTR, etc. over the amp sims that come with Logic. They're good, but not great.

[djwayne]

Yes I have a few other programs that are more specialized than what I'd get with Sonar X1 Producer, for example I have Ivory II instead of True Pianos, EWQLSO Gold for orchestral samples, I have Adobe Audition 3 for editing and mastering, Ozone's multi-band compressor....The strong thing with Sonar is it's midi recording capabilities, and I got all the tools I need with X1 Essentials.

[The Pope]

Any experience with mackie control? Also, can it 'read' a live recording where tempo drifts around and create a tempo track?

[Anderton]

Any experience with mackie control? Also, can it 'read' a live recording where tempo drifts around and create a tempo track?

 

1. Don't have a Mackie Control, but the V-Studio 700 controller is Mackie Control-compatible and works with Sonar in that mode...which I checked only out of curiosity, because obviously, native control offers additional features. I also use the V-Studio controller with Vegas and Reason

 

2. AudioSnap does that in theory; I've only used AudioSnap for other purposes (quantizing audio, adapting tempo to loops, slicing, etc.). I should try that out. So far in my experience, Live does the best job of parsing looooong clips and giving you a tempo map. It would be cool if Sonar was at that level.

 

So many things to check out...

[djwayne]

I'll give you an update...I recieved my boxed version of Sonar X1 Essentials today, and re-installed the program onto an Solid State Drive. The program now opens up in about 4 seconds and works great. The only problem I'm having is the control bar disappears when the program is not in use. The work around for this is to float the control bar then re-dock it, and all is well again. Other than that, X1 and I are getting along very well. It's a fabulous program and has a million aspects to it that I really like. The dual volume controls in the inspector are very handy once you learn how to use them. It's not a hard program to learn, but it does take a little effort. But once you learn it, it's a dream to work with.

[Anderton]

The "disappearing control bar" is something that has been reported by multiple users on the Cakewalk forums, so I presume Cakewalk has enough data to fix this on the next update.

 

The main disappointment I've seen is that staff view hasn't been upgraded. I'm also seeing some comments that aren't true...like one person complained there wasn't a simple keyboard shortcut for the scissors tool (which is correct) and that you had to cycle through the tools on the function key that selects the scissors every time you wanted to select the scissors, which is not correct. Once you select the scissors tool with that function key, it sticks until you choose a different tool with the same key. Even if you go to other tools, when you return to the function key, the scissors will be there.

 

I noticed that the zoom function on the V-Studio controller no longer works, and I mentioned this to Cakewalk. Apparently an upgrade is in the works for the V-Studio controller to take advantage of X1, but not until early 2011.

 

Overall, I'm very pleased with X1. The bugs I've encountered are more along the lines of annoyances than deal-breakers. And some things people have complained about (bigger buttons and text) are aspects I prefer. There are definitely some bugs that need to be squashed, but I know they're beta testing the next rev of the program and what I hear is that there will be an update before the end of the month.

 

My favorite aspect so far is that I'm not always opening, closing, and re-sizing windows. I set up the screensets I like, then show/hide/collapse/expand within that. Much faster.

 

FWIW WaveLab 7 shipped with quite a few bugs and people were really savaging it on the Steinberg forums (unjustifiably, in my opinion - there was a lot more right than wrong). But the 7.0.1 update just came out last week, and tightened down a lot of screws. If X1's update does as much for X1 as 7.0.1 did for Wavelab, that will be great.

[the stranger]

Distortion is always a mystery

 

Distortion is no mystery.

[pbognar]

The "disappearing control bar" is something that has been reported by multiple users on the Cakewalk forums, so I presume Cakewalk has enough data to fix this on the next update. The main disappointment I've seen is that staff view hasn't been upgraded. I'm also seeing some comments that aren't true...like one person complained there wasn't a simple keyboard shortcut for the scissors tool (which is correct) and that you had to cycle through the tools on the function key that selects the scissors every time you wanted to select the scissors, which is not correct. Once you select the scissors tool with that function key, it sticks until you choose a different tool with the same key. Even if you go to other tools, when you return to the function key, the scissors will be there. I noticed that the zoom function on the V-Studio controller no longer works, and I mentioned this to Cakewalk. Apparently an upgrade is in the works for the V-Studio controller to take advantage of X1, but not until early 2011. Overall, I'm very pleased with X1. The bugs I've encountered are more along the lines of annoyances than deal-breakers. And some things people have complained about (bigger buttons and text) are aspects I prefer. There are definitely some bugs that need to be squashed, but I know they're beta testing the next rev of the program and what I hear is that there will be an update before the end of the month. My favorite aspect so far is that I'm not always opening, closing, and re-sizing windows. I set up the screensets I like, then show/hide/collapse/expand within that. Much faster. FWIW WaveLab 7 shipped with quite a few bugs and people were really savaging it on the Steinberg forums (unjustifiably, in my opinion - there was a lot more right than wrong). But the 7.0.1 update just came out last week, and tightened down a lot of screws. If X1's update does as much for X1 as 7.0.1 did for Wavelab, that will be great.

Yeah - some self-validation for staff view disappointment. The Computer Music review also alluded to it.

As far as use with a laptop you've provide some great tips, and there are tips on the Cake forum as well, but boy, those minimum graphics requirements are pretty steep.

People are realizing that they may have to buy new computers (or at least better graphics cards / displays) to effectively utilize X1's UI.

So buying a used Mac to run Logic doesn't sound as crazy as it once did.

With the "diverse behavior" of X1 on all permutations of Windows based hardware out there, I will definitely wait until at least patch X1A has settled in before upgrading.

Once this "diverse behavior" settles down, I can see where the new UI is going to give Sonar a boost both for existing and new users. The bakers definitely have a vision for what Sonar should be - of course they won't be able to please everyone, but this does go a long way.

I have a question regarding the Inspector - can using the Inspector exclusively eliminate the need to display all the track property windows to the left of the track pane? I realize it might be nice to see all track properties at a glance for a track/tracks, but in the interest of space on a laptop display, I wonder if it would be plausible to work with the track property area minimized.

[Anderton]

 

As far as use with a laptop you've provide some great tips, and there are tips on the Cake forum as well, but boy, those minimum graphics requirements are pretty steep.

 

 

All I'm seeing on the Cakewalk site is 1280 x 800 minimum screen resolution, although I think 1280 x 1024 minimum is more accurate if you want to see all of the ProChannel at one time. I'm running Sonar on an obsolete Matrox Parhelia card, and the graphics performance is so minimal by Vista standards my computer has a Windows Experience score of 1 or something - it won't even let me try to run Aero. So I don't think you need very high-powered graphics, unless I'm missing some cool part of the UI that I'm not aware of...

 

 

Once this "diverse behavior" settles down, I can see where the new UI is going to give Sonar a boost both for existing and new users. The bakers definitely have a vision for what Sonar should be - of course they won't be able to please everyone, but this does go a long way.

 

 

Agreed. I think it's a step forward in terms of productivity and a more cohesive user experience. I once hassled someone at Cakewalk by saying it looked like Sonar 8 was designed by a committee of 14 people who didn't like each other. It now looks far more unified.

 

 

I have a question regarding the Inspector - can using the Inspector exclusively eliminate the need to display all the track property windows to the left of the track pane? I realize it might be nice to see all track properties at a glance for a track/tracks, but in the interest of space on a laptop display, I wonder if it would be plausible to work with the track property area minimized.

 

 

Yes, the new Inspector is far more powerful. One of my favorite features is that I actually name clips, and having a central place in the Inspector where I can name a clip as soon as one is selected is much better than right-clicking, making a menu selection, then renaming. The X1 interface is filled with that sort of improved functionality.

[Anderton]

Two tips:

[Lucky #9]

Craig:

How goes it with X1 as far as Mastering?

Could one actually master his stuff, attaining better than acceptable results with this program, or would there be a need for additional plug-ins and/or hardware, in your opinion?

And if other gear or software were required, what would you suggest, at reasonbale cost?

As an afterthought, how is/was 8.5 for mastering, as I purchased it about two months ago but have not loaded it up to date?

Many thanks and Merry Christmas!

[bluzgtr]

Cakewalk offered users running version 8 a deal where they could buy version 8.5 for $99, and download X1 for free when it was released. I had version 8 running on my PC Audiolabs Rok Box, and was a very happy user (other than wishing for a more robust realization of the staff view). The program was rock solid, and never crashed. I was a happy user. But I usually upgrade every couple of years, and it sounded like a good deal, so I went for it.

 

I got version 8.5 a couple of weeks before X1 released, and installed it but never used it. I couldn't see the point in learning what was new with 8.5 when I'd have to relearn again after 12/8.

 

So when X1 arrived, I installed it as well. I now had three versions of Sonar on my machine. The only instructions in the documentation regarding older versions were that the 8.5 Upgrade had to see version 8 on the machine to install, and the X1 Upgrade had to see version 8.5. It also said if I uninstalled an earlier version, I might have to rescan my plug-ins.

 

No problem. So I went into the version 8 folder, found the uninstall icon and clicked on it.

[bluzgtr]

Update #2:

 

No phone support for Sonar X1 Producer. Email only. Wait is about 2 business days. Since it's Friday afternoon, that means 4 days. That's just WONDERFUL!

 

Larry

[djwayne]

So re-install 8 and be done with it.

X1 Essentials is sitting right next to my Home Studio 7XL and I'm having no problems at all.

[Anderton]

No problem. So I went into the version 8 folder, found the uninstall icon and clicked on it.

[Sonic_Liberator]

I

[bluzgtr]

 

So re-install 8 and be done with it. X1 Essentials is sitting right next to my Home Studio 7XL and I'm having no problems at all.

 

 

 

Well, I paid for X1, I'd kind of like to get there.

 

I wasn't having any problem either, until I decided I didn't need Version 8 taking up space.

 

Larry

[bluzgtr]

Yes, it's an X1 upgrade.

 

Yes, I could use some help on "registry keys and stuff." I've been following your advice going back to what I believe was your first book --- first edition of Electronic Projects for Musicians. I think it's still in my shop. We won't mention when that was. I made about half of them.

 

I quadruple backup all my audio, but I never thought to backup things I'd changed in the program. Since my Sonar machine is dedicated, after I get stable again, I think I'll start making disk images every month.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Larry

[Anderton]

Yes, I could use some help on "registry keys and stuff."

 

 

First - create a system restore point!!!!!!!!!! I cannot tell you how many times that has saved my butt.

 

Next, here are the instructions Cakewalk gives to beta testers about removing older versions from their computers. Beta program info is confidential, but I can't imagine Cakewalk having a problem with me mentioning this procedure.

 

I'm sure you know that messing with the registry entails risks if you make a mistake, so neither Cakewalk nor I can be responsible if following this procedure causes problems. However, FWIW I've done it about a dozen times during the process of installing new beta versions and not had any problems.

 

REMOVING PREVIOUS VERSIONS

 

- Go to Control Panel | Add or Remove Programs and uninstall SONARX1

 

- When prompted to

[Anderton]

Speaking of colors, can you post some pics? I don't see any difference in importing color presets nor assigning colors to object in X1. It stays the same but for one or two things like a background.

 

 

Sorry it took a while to post this. The track clip foreground/background colors are the same ones I use for Vegas.

[bluzgtr]

First - create a system restore point!!!!!!!!!! I cannot tell you how many times that has saved my butt.

Go to Start | Run, and type

[djwayne]

Let me get this straight, you installed X1 then uninstalled Sonar 8 ?? I'd try uninstalling X1 the re-installing X1 and then it should work. If it's relying on Sonar 8 to be there then yes, you would have to re-install 8, but I don't think it does. It sounds to me that when you uninstalled 8 you unintentionally gutted out X1 as well.

[Sonic_Liberator]

I

[Anderton]

 

Yeah, I was wishing for one of those "System Restore Points" when everything went south. But the gentlemen at PC Audio Labs delivered the machine with that function turned off. Since it has been, by at least an order of magnitude, the most stable Windows machine I've ever owned, I figured they knew what they were doing and left it alone.

 

 

They most definitely know what they're doing, I have a Rok Box laptop and an 8-core desktop - great machines.

 

But, you don't have to have System Restore on all the time, running in the background and possibly messing with performance. You can turn it on, create a system restore point, make sure all is well, then turn it off again.