dilemma -- going amp-less?

[kcswimjustin]

I'm looking for a bit of live sound advice and would welcome some advice:

 

I'm playing an advent service at church on Sunday; it's going to be televised. I'm the lead guitarist in this particular group, and since it's a special service, we're playing with a live orchestra (about 20 pieces). I normally play through my small Vox AC4, trying to stay right on the edge where the amp starts to break up.

 

Our sound man has asked that, for this service, I skip the amp and plug directly into a direct box (which goes to the board) so he can have more control over the levels. I ran with this idea at our last rehearsal and played around with my pedalboard to try to get a decent sound without the amp. And when I run it through a lightly driven Tubescreamer and a DL-4 it sounds...well...okay, but a little lifeless in that way that electrics just sort of sound like without an amp driving a speaker.

 

Some options I've thought of:

a) Just suck it up go with it -- it's just a couple of songs, and maybe no one will notice.

 

b) purchase/borrow some sort of Line 6 Pod to get an amp simulator

 

c) borrow our bass player's Vox Pathfinder amp, which has a line out and could get the "Voxy" tone

 

d) this potentially hairbrained scheme: bring my own dynamic mic, turn my amp away from the congregation and use an XLR to 1/4" cable to take the mic signal and send it to the direct box. That way, I'd get my "real" tone but wouldn't blast the congregation and our sound man could use the balanced signal from the direct box.

 

What's the most prudent thing to do here? I'm mindful that this is a church service, NOT a regular gig, and our sound guy has to deal with a lot of variables (levels for the congregation AND the television feed with electric, acoustic, bass, a cajon, several vocalists, and the orchestra).

 

I absolutely don't want to be a diva or a primadonna, and I don't want to make this about me when it's supposed to be about the Christmas season and the spiritual experience. The goal is to help people experience the joy of the season, but I'm also in a town where people know and appreciate good music, and I don't want to come off like an amateur.

 

Any assistance is appreciated. Thanks for any serious responses.

[mrbrown49]

If you can borrow a pod or other modeling device that would be best IMO.

[Taylor.]

The Tech 21 amp sim pedals (Liverpool, California, Blonde, etc.) are great for this. Same situation for me so a friend lent me his California and it sounded wonderful.

[kayd_mon]

An amp sim pedal (Pod, Tech 21 as mentioned, etc.) will be the best for this. Option #2 would be to borrow the amp with the line out. Pods are meant to do this sort of thing, and while they're no replacement for an amp, it'll work. Good luck!

[cratz2]

Really? The AC4 is too loud even on the lowest wattage setting?

 

Short of somehow rigging a mic to your amp in a way that makes you both happy, those Tech 21 amps are pretty amazing. Not quite like an amp, but WAY better than direct and likely better than most modelers at coping a slightly breaking up Vox tone. Check some of the vids. That guy from Australia had me ready to buy one and I owned two AC15s and the older guy with the Ric... absolutely AMAZING!

 

[kcswimjustin]

Thank you all so much for your suggestions -- this is great information to have. My guess is that the AC4 on the lowest setting pointed away from the congregation would be okay (1/4 watt is really not that loud), but the Tech 21/Pod pedals are probably the easiest solution. I can add in another pedal a lot easier than I can get a mic set up to an amp that he doesn't want me to use in the first place. It will be less of a hassle for everyone.

 

Am I correct in thinking that one of these would naturally go at the end of a signal chain?

 

Volume --> TS9 --> DL4 --> pod or Tech 21

 

And to think, the whole reason I bought the AC4 was because it was so much quieter than my AC30...

 

Thanks again for the advice.

[bluffalo]

id vote for suck it up. the only people that are going to think its an amateur sounding tone is the 2 guys watching that are guitar players and will probably read a forum later on that day. no one else will care.

 

edit: and i'm a "modeller player"

[Taylor.]

Thank you all so much for your suggestions -- this is great information to have. My guess is that the AC4 on the lowest setting pointed away from the congregation would be okay (1/4 watt is really not that loud), but the Tech 21/Pod pedals are probably the easiest solution. I can add in another pedal a lot easier than I can get a mic set up to an amp that he doesn't want me to use in the first place. It will be less of a hassle for everyone. Am I correct in thinking that one of these would naturally go at the end of a signal chain? Volume --> TS9 --> DL4 --> pod or Tech 21 And to think, the whole reason I bought the AC4 was because it was so much quieter than my AC30... Thanks again for the advice.

Yep, that's where I'd put it. There are about a zillion settings inside each of these pedals but set it for low gain and go nuts.

 

California

British

Liverpool

Blonde

 

[kayd_mon]

 

And to think, the whole reason I bought the AC4 was because it was so much quieter than my AC30...

 

 

In my experience, sound guys who work in churches almost unanimously shun guitar amps.

[unworthy]

Another vote for Tech 21. I've been using a Tri-A.C. in my church rig for years and am really quite happy. The trick, for me, was to get in-ear monitoring to hear exactly what I was sending to the board and then not worrying about what goes out over the system. If someone tells me I'm too loud or not loud enough I simply reply, "not my problem, I have no control over that."

 

D

[satannica]

Your soundguy is looking for the easy option. His decision to have you DI is nothing more than laziness and you've fallen for it!

 

Any soundguy worth his salt will do what's necessary to capture the performance, not tell people to change their gear to fit with his attitude. Especially an amp that size, that is pure laziness.

 

You either tell him to do his damn job and mic you properly (cite your reasons why), you borrow a modeller and hope for the best, you DI and live with sounding crap or you just omit your solo parts altogether.

 

If I were your soundguy, I'd be happily micing your amp, indeed anything else that needed it. The easy option for the soundguy is DI, it's pretty obvious he doesn't really care about the end result.

[kayd_mon]

 

Your soundguy is looking for the easy option. His decision to have you DI is nothing more than laziness and you've fallen for it! Any soundguy worth his salt will do what's necessary to capture the performance, not tell people to change their gear to fit with his attitude. Especially an amp that size, that is pure laziness. You either tell him to do his damn job and mic you properly (cite your reasons why), you borrow a modeller and hope for the best, you DI and live with sounding crap or you just omit your solo parts altogether. If I were your soundguy, I'd be happily micing your amp, indeed anything else that needed it. The easy option for the soundguy is DI, it's pretty obvious he doesn't really care about the end result.

 

 

Unfortunately, this is a perfect description of most church sound guys, like I was saying before.

[Special J]

Hi, sound guy here. While I would certainly let you use your amp in this situation, I have experience working with orchestras, and even with rock bands playing along with orchestras. Your sound guy perhaps does not. Some mega-churches I've worked in have very competent pro sound guys. Most churches have volunteers. I don't know much about your situation, the room you guys use, the level of quality of the equipment or of the players, the broadcast situation, etc. Neither does sattanica who seems to have the answers. The fact is, if you're in an acoustically hostile environment, every bit of sonic information going into that room is going to complicate matters for the sound guy and can quickly turn into a bunch of mush for the audience. With a lot of churches, it's hard enough to get a band sounding good, never mind a large choir or an orchestra on top of that. If this is being recorded for broadcast, or scarier, going out live, your sound guy has one chance of getting it right before it gets seen by potentially thousands of people. He just wants as much control as he can get out of a potentially chaotic situation. I don't think his request is all that unreasonable, assuming you have a monitor of some sort so that you can hear yourself. I would echo the folks above with the good suggestions of the Tech 21 boxes, SansAmps, Pods or other simulation devices. I'm sure your sound is important to you, as it is with all guitarists, but you seem to already know what is the more important thing here.

[steve_man]

Turn the AC4 down to the lowest power setting, put a mic in front of it...should be good to go.