Did my first Stainless Steel fretwire refret today (lots of pics and tech stuff)

[rock-lobster]

i have stainless frets on my carvin. you just can't beat the feel. smooth, slick, and last foh-evah

 

[atrox]

Looks great.

 

Personally, I don't find it all that different working with SS. It's a little tougher, but nothing to whine about like a lot of techs do.

[Mind Riot]

Looks great. Personally, I don't find it all that different working with SS. It's a little tougher, but nothing to whine about like a lot of techs do.

 

I agree. It does seem a bit tougher on my tools, but it's not like I'm sweating and swearing the whole time I'm working with it; it goes in fine and all that.

 

Kind of makes me wonder if the techs who complain and bad mouth it are slacking on their fretboard prep and counting on the malleability of NS wire to cover their mistakes.

 

EDIT: I LOVE this Tru-Oil stuff, I can see why you like it. It's idiot proof, and makes for a nice luster. I love the way it feels on the neck of the Mason, I'm hoping this one will feel the same way.

[atrox]

I agree. It does seem a bit tougher on my tools, but it's not like I'm sweating and swearing the whole time I'm working with it; it goes in fine and all that. Kind of makes me wonder if the techs who complain and bad mouth it are slacking on their fretboard prep and counting on the malleability of NS wire to cover their mistakes. EDIT: I LOVE this Tru-Oil stuff, I can see why you like it. It's idiot proof, and makes for a nice luster. I love the way it feels on the neck of the Mason, I'm hoping this one will feel the same way.

 

It's idiot proof and it can be satin, gloss.. whatever. It even buff's to a shine nicely with enough coats.

[whatever]

Thank you for sharing! I can hardly wait to hear your review of how stainless steel frets sound compared to nickle silver.

[Puppetyr]

Cool thread

 

Everyone should try SS frets. They're a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.

[atrox]

Cool thread Everyone should try SS frets. They're a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned.

 

They do nothing for me. One of my tele's has them, but I honestly don't feel a difference and I play with such a light touch, that I have never HAD to re-fret one of my own guitars. My Squier i bought in '86 had perfect frets on it till I ripped them off and made a fretless out of it. My late 80's MIA Strat still has perfect frets.

 

However.. if you have a heavy hand, I highly suggest SS frets (and have me or MR do it for ya )

[Funderbunk]

This is a gread thread... informative, well illustrated and written....

 

... and quite enough to convince me I probably won't take on fretwork myself.

 

Question for either of our fretting gurus on here - have you had any experience with the gold colored fretwire that LMI sells? I'm intrigued by this part: "With a Vicker

[Gary Ladd]

This is a gread thread... informative, well illustrated and written....   ... and quite enough to convince me I probably won't take on fretwork myself.   Question for either of our fretting gurus on here - have you had any experience with the gold colored fretwire that LMI sells? I'm intrigued by this part: "With a Vicker

[ashasha]

Dude, these are consistently some of the best threads on this forum. I appreciate the fact that you take the time to explain in detail what is going on and don't try to embellish or gloss over 'lessons learned' (i.e., mistakes) that happened.

 

The coolest part though is that I really think that your train of thought is very similar to mine so everything is just so damn logical to me. Its nice to see some great success stories on here about someone doing this stuff themselves.

 

Now if only I could get off my butt and build one of them neck jigs.

[AshboneWish]

Once again...great thread MR !

Im sure more work will come your way, and I hope you keep posting threads on 'em..!

Excellent!

:thu:

[Exdeath]

Beautiful! I might be interested in a SS refret on my ESP, and a satin finished neck, but that might be a bit of a pain (painted neck, bound ebony fingerboard and all). PM me, okay?

[Mind Riot]

Sorry for the delay everybody, I'm trying to be very patient and really give the finish enough time to cure. It's still a bit soft, and I don't want to do any more work on it until I'm sure I won't mar the finish. Shouldn't be much longer though.

 

Thanks again for reading, and I'm glad people enjoy the threads.

[TheSkyIsCrying]

Nice Job!

[Dissy]

I always love reading about the projects you're working on-this one has reminded me I was going to tru-oil finish one of my guitar necks when I get some free time.

[corbind]

OP, I'm confused. Why did you bother to take on all this work on this guitar? Great post and info!

[Mind Riot]

OP, I'm confused. Why did you bother to take on all this work on this guitar? Great post and info!

 

Because I'm a madman!! MAAAAAAAAADMAAAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!

 

Actually, a couple of reasons. First, a forumite wants this done on one of his guitars. But I hadn't worked with SS fretwire before, and I wanted to get a little experience with it before I worked on someone else's guitar. That way if I made any mistakes as I was learning, it would only mess up one of my guitars.

 

As far as why I'd put this much work into a Squier '51, it's because this one has been my guinea pig for fretwork experiments for a while, and the old frets on it were the most worn of any of my guitars because of that. Also, I needed a maple board guitar to do the refinish work, and my only other maple board guitar I'd be willing to work on has a thick, glossy, tinted finish on it that I didn't want to mess with.

 

The finish is pretty well cured now, I'll be posting some more pics very soon of the final stages.

[Mind Riot]

Okay, quite a bit more progress tonight, we're on the home stretch now!

 

I ended up applying a total of four coats of Tru-Oil to both the fretboard and the back of the neck. I gave at least two hours drying time between coats, and a full day after the last coat to make sure. I was pleasantly surprised at how hard this stuff cured, I wasn't sure if it was going to be soft for days and days.

 

One thing I did that made things easier was a little trick I learned from my friend the cabinet maker. If someone in the shop missed a spot on some prep work or there was just a few unexpected bubbles in the finish, a piece of ordinary copy paper can be used for a very gentle scuff to smooth things out. I used this instead of having to get out the steel wool and make a mess, and I only had to do it once after the second coat to make sure things went smooth. There was just a tiny bit of roughness at the blending spot at the headstock, and at the start of the heel.

 

 

Maybe everybody in the world knew about this before I did, but I thought it was a neat trick and it worked great.

 

So here's the front and back after the last coat had thoroughly dried. This stuff makes a very nice sheen, and it feels very nice in one's hands.

 

 

I think in the future I'll probably take a little more time and lay the finish after I true the board but before I install the frets. It'll take longer, and it cuts right into the middle of the process, but I think it'll make for a better and more even finish if I can do a smooth wipe all the way down the board instead of carefully wiping the stuff in between each fret and trying to keep it even.

 

So once the finish was dry I could tend to some of the fine detail work, such as the fret ends. I nipped them with my cutters and filed them back flush and with a standard 35 degree bevel, but they were still sharp on the ends (the file cuts them back, but doesn't round them). So I got out my little fret end file and very carefully set about rounding off the sharp edges.

 

 

Here's another instance where I noticed a little difference from nickel wire, filing this stuff with this delicate file felt very different. It cut it just fine, but I could tell this wire was harder, it was a stiffer feel.

 

Once that was done I taped up the board to protect it and got out some 0000 steel wool to remove the finish from the fretwire itself and clean it up some.

 

 

I also took this opportunity to use various grits of sandpaper and the steel wool to swipe up and down the ends of the frets to help smooth them over some more (the file cuts the edges, but still leaves them a bit rough). After a but of time, everything was looking good and there were no more sharp ends or edges to catch the hand.

 

 

I pulled the tape and got down to the last thing I had to do at this stage: cut a new nut.

 

 

Unfortunately, there seemed to be a weak spot in this blank as a couple small chunks came up near the G string slot, leaving a pitted appearance. Oh well, it doesn't bother me and it doesn't affect anything other than looks.

 

 

I'll finish up next post....

[Mind Riot]

Once the nut was done, I just had to put the neck back on, string it up and do a quick setup and we're back in business.

 

 

First impressions are hard to say really, because it needs a fret leveling. Even with good fretboard prep and a fret press caul, frets don't usually go in perfectly level. This thing plays good most places on the neck, but there's some fretting out on the G string and a few other little spots, so I'll be doing a level and dress on it within a couple days.

 

It's hard to state things I've noticed about the new wire right now, because I've only played it a little. I'll have to spend some more time with it to really form opinions, but I can say that right now it doesn't seem to me to affect the sound of the guitar at all. Maybe I'll notice something later, but I've had the guitar a couple years and have played it a lot and it seems to sound the same.

 

My first impression regarding playability (such as it is) is that there does seem a be a little less resistance when I bend. This guitar has a fixed top loading bridge, which means there's less string length past the saddle, and a little less give to the strings. In my personal observation, between my four electrics with 25 1/2" scales and all different bridges and identical strings and setups this one has always felt the stiffest to me. Now, it seems to bend a little easier, just a little less effort and it does feel pretty smooth.

 

This is just quick first impressions and I'll definitely share more when I've spent more time with it, but also things will greatly improve after I do the level and dress on it and really get things set up optimally. I'll have more to say on the subject then.

 

Thanks again to everyone for reading, and I'll be posting back again before you know it!

[Mind Riot]

Bump?

[dcindc]

Aw come on, we ya!

 

 

You know that way many more people read these than post, right?

 

 

[aussy]

Quick question, do you think refrets are really worth the couple hundred dollar fee that techs charge? Also did any of the original finish come off when you removed the frets? Nice work!

[Mind Riot]

 

Quick question, do you think refrets are really worth the couple hundred dollar fee that techs charge? Also did any of the original finish come off when you removed the frets? Nice work!

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean about the finish. Pulling the frets doesn't really remove any finish but I sanded all of it off to true up the board. Even if a fretboard is perfectly flat when the neck is made it will usually change shape once it's under the hundred or so pounds of stress from a set of strings. So with a refret, often you have to sand the fretboard to get it perfectly flat before you install the new frets.

 

Yes, I do think refrets are worth it. A well done refret removes every single impediment to a guitar playing it's best. You remove any fret problems, any irregularities in the wood, any problems with the nut, and you can make the radius whatever you want (on this one I changed it from a 9.5" to a flatter 14"). And with a refret, you're doing the work on a neck that has settled into it's shape after being under tension for some time, so it's going to be much more stable and consistent than a new neck. New necks have to settle in, and they will often change shape or develop a rise at the end of the board once they're installed.

 

That's why I personally think doing a refret is often better than buying a new neck, because of the stability of a broken in neck as opposed to a new one that still has to settle in.

 

I know some people buy quality necks and are satisfied with them right out of the box, so it does happen, but in my opinion it's a roll of the dice. Usually a new neck will need a fret leveling once it's on the guitar, and if you add the cost of that to the cost of the new neck you might find that a refret would have been the cheaper and more stable option after all.

 

Of course, this is assuming that your neck is decent. If a replacement neck will be an overall step up in quality then it might be a good idea, but necks these days are pretty solidly made, even on Squiers.

 

And of course, if you have a set neck or neck through guitar then buying a new neck isn't an option, so a refret is the only way.

 

As far as prices, I suppose most techs charge what they're comfortable with or whatever the market will bear, but some of the prices I've seen seem a bit excessive. A refret is a lot of very precise, detailed and meticulous work and it deserves compensation, so a couple hundred for a top quality refret doesn't seem excessive to me, particularly with the cost of the fretwire, new nut, and other materials like sandpaper and such cutting into the profits.

[dcindc]

Quick question, do you think refrets are really worth the couple hundred dollar fee that techs charge?

 

 

 

 

Mind Riot just makes it LOOK easy!

[leakyfaucet]

 

This guitar has a fixed top loading bridge, which means there's less string length past the saddle, and a little less give to the strings. In my personal observation, between my four electrics with 25 1/2" scales and all different bridges and identical strings and setups this one has always felt the stiffest to me.

 

 

The more "give" a string has, based on having more string length past the saddle, actually makes it more difficult to perform string bends to the same pitch.

 

It's the same concept as to why it is harder to bend to pitch on a floating trem than on a fixed bridge.