Recording The Doors - drums, keyboards, guitars, whatever...

[UstadKhanAli]

I rarely if ever ask these questions, but there's actually a reason for this: I'm recording a Doors tribute album next weekend.

 

If you know the equipment, that'd be interesting too, but I'm more interested in knowing about general microphone setups or anything that was unique or general advice. In particular, how did the engineers mic up the drum set? A quick Google doesn't really turn up much on recording The Doors.

 

T'anks!!!!

[sailorman]

You might want to check the archives at SOS or Recording mags. One of them ran an interview with Botnick, the Doors engineer, and he went into some detail about the studio itself (an old car service station I believe) and his recording techniques. I think I saved the mag and will look for it later today.

 

actually it was Dec 2003. This might help

 

http://forum.johndensmore.com/index.php?showtopic=2731

 

btw, I'm a huge Doors fan. We play a bunch of Doors in our cover band. Did almost the whole first album; when it was new. Guess that makes me old.

[halfnote]

There's a book, titled something like "Temples of Sound" that details the gear, rooms, people, etc., of a number of major studios.

I'm sure there's some material in it that would apply to Elektra's studios.

The autobio's of Densmore, Manzarek & Krieger might have some info, too.

 

As far as the specifics of how mics, etc., were actually set up, you might be better served by attempting to actually contact any of the ppl involved & asking them directly.

 

Of course, you realize that tribute hardly needs to follow the same methods as the original to be effective & might even be more so to the degree that it recasts material, eh ?

 

Temples of Sound

http://books.google.com/books?id=hO-KQ4o_B2MC

[UstadKhanAli]

That is very helpful, thanks!

 

 

The drums were miked with an overhead Sony C37, placed at the height of Densmore's forehead in the centre of the kit, as well as another 37 flipped out of phase underneath the snare and an Altec- Lansing 'Salt Shaker' on the kick. While Telefunken U47s were employed to record both Robby Krieger's guitar and Ray Manzarek's electric organ, the piano-bass was DI'd. Tried and trusted, this was Bruce Botnick's miking technique for assorted setups with a wide variety of artists.   "I'd use this even if I was doing my Motown sessions," he remarks. "I'd developed it myself, and later on I also had a drum platform made, suspended off the floor to get a little more depth to the sound. We'd always try different things: John might put his wallet on the snare, and we'd always tune the drums for the song. Sometimes I would have a U47 positioned maybe eight feet from the kit and heavily compressed to open it up a bit, but there weren't a whole lot of games. The console was very open-sounding and the mics were pretty bright in those days, so we'd just add a little bit of EQ and that was it."   Jim Morrison's vocals were captured with a U47, and although Botnick didn't use a pop shield during the Strange Days sessions

[UstadKhanAli]

Of course, you realize that tribute hardly needs to follow the same methods as the original to be effective & might even be more so to the degree that it recasts material, eh ?

 

Definitely. I was just looking for starting points for capturing a vibe. I'm not necessarily intending on setting up the same way exactly, but it's nice to have a starting point for consideration.

 

Besides, I'm recording in a house to Pro Tools, so I'm not delusional that I can make it sound exactly the same!!

 

I think as long as it doesn't sound blatantly "modern", captures a vibe of people playing live in a room, has energy, and sounds good and solid, the band will be happy.

[UstadKhanAli]

btw, I'm a huge Doors fan. We play a bunch of Doors in our cover band. Did almost the whole first album; when it was new. Guess that makes me old.

 

It makes you experienced. Vintage.

 

And it means you have good taste.

[nat whilk II]

The reverb on the snare on Light My Fire always caught my attention, even when the song was new on the radio (another "experienced" guy here..) Kind of a slapback almost but not quite - but it has a strange gritty sound...still mystifies me.

 

It almost sounds like a gated snare, especially during the long lead sections....'course it wasn't...was it? Was there such a thing in those days??

 

Whatever it is, I think it's an uber-cool sound.

 

[EDIT] now I've gone back and listened close on my studio monitors...I'm not sure now it's actually the snare verb at all - sounds more like a distorted low note on an electric piano or something...could it be weird noise generated by the pedal bass?? The cabinet rattling??? The drum hardware vibrating????

 

Now I'm more mystified than ever....I'm cool with that feeling..

 

nat whilk ii

[philbo]

Definitely. I was just looking for starting points for capturing a vibe. I'm not necessarily intending on setting up the same way exactly, but it's nice to have a starting point for consideration. Besides, I'm recording in a house to Pro Tools, so I'm not delusional that I can make it sound exactly the same!! I think as long as it doesn't sound blatantly "modern", captures a vibe of people playing live in a room, has energy, and sounds good and solid, the band will be happy.

 

Don't forget to get the glue-on-stockings mic screen...

[blue2blue]

 

You might want to check the archives at SOS or Recording mags. One of them ran an interview with Botnick, the Doors engineer, and he went into some detail about the studio itself (an old car service station I believe) and his recording techniques. I think I saved the mag and will look for it later today. actually it was Dec 2003. This might help http://forum.johndensmore.com/index.php?showtopic=2731 btw, I'm a huge Doors fan. We play a bunch of Doors in our cover band. Did almost the whole first album; when it was new. Guess that makes me old.

Isn't there a long Botnick interview in Tape Op from not that far back?

 

 

EDIT: The Bruce Botnick Interview is in #74, which looks to be from summer or fall of 2009. http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=68159&sid=d8b73d655d2f25a0c1cfe9684bf588d1

[techristian]

now I've gone back and listened close on my studio monitors...I'm not sure now it's actually the snare verb at all - sounds more like a distorted low note on an electric piano or something...could it be weird noise generated by the pedal bass?? The cabinet rattling??? The drum hardware vibrating???? Now I'm more mystified than ever....I'm cool with that feeling.. nat whilk ii

 

I think that this is the best way to get the "vibe", by listening to Doors stuff from a few different albums. We all know what gated and close mic sounds like. Well I don't remember too many gated or close mic stuff from the Doors era. and LESS was more back then. Probably only 2 or 3 microphones, less emphasis on the snare and maybe a touch of spring reverb.Turn up the ride cymbal like on "Riders on the Storm". The bass drum is also very muffled...it might even be just a cardboard box. "Light My Fire" is a bit heavier on snare and sounds like the mic is closer...and again that splashy ride cymbal.

 

Dan

[Anderton]

EQ had a lengthy article on recording the Doors, but I can't remember the issue. It was pretty thorough IIRC.

 

BTW - if you can get the mono version, listen to that. Not sure if the following is true in the case of the Doors' first album, but back in those days, the mono version was often the main one, and the stereo one was thrown together for that new-fangled medium.

[UstadKhanAli]

I don't know if I still have that EQ, unfortunately.

 

Started preliminary setup for this recording, which takes place tomorrow.

 

I didn't have time to get the mono version, but I think they want the thing to be the uber-separated thing anyway. I'll find out for sure tomorrow. The guy said that he didn't need it to sound exactly like the recordings although he wanted to take some cues from that, which is exactly what I'm doing anyway. I mean, I don't have the same equipment or studio, and I'm recording on Pro Tools!!

 

This should be a blast. I love recording anyway, but I've never recorded anything like this before.

[Anderton]

Well, when the music's over, turn out the lights.

[VJFranzK]

The Doors are my favorite rock band, I'm doing an electronica song in that style for the next album.

 

Mostly complete, but want keyboards. Friend may play them on softsynths... any suggestions for the Ray.M sound?

 

"all right, all right, all right..."

[Anderton]

 

The Doors are my favorite rock band, I'm doing an electronica song in that style for the next album. Mostly complete, but want keyboards. Friend may play them on softsynths... any suggestions for the Ray.M sound? "all right, all right, all right..."

 

 

It was a Vox Continental for the first and second albums, and I'm pretty sure there are samples of it floating around. He later switched over to a Gibson G101, so the "Ray M." sound depends on the album. You can get samples of the G101 here, but I can't vouch for the quality one way or the other. OTOH...how hard is it to sample an organ?!?

[UstadKhanAli]

The keyboardist was using Vox Continental sounds in Reason. I added a bit of hair and took of a bit of that odd slightly glitchy high end that his sound had by sending them through an amp mod, which he really liked.

 

The tracking went really well. The band all loves the recording, and thinks that it captures a lot of the flavor of The Doors!!! Fantastic! I miced up the drums using three mics: Lawson L251 for the mono overhead, directly over the snare at forehead level, 421 under the snare, and a Heil PR40 in front of the kick. The overhead went through an FMR RNC.

 

I had a Heil PR30 for the guitar amp, a Carr Rambler. This went through a Neve Portico set in Silk Mode and then through an FMR RNLA to put a little more compression and hair on it.

 

We ended up going DI for the bass keyboard and the organs and pianos.

 

For the vocals, I ended up using an Audio Technica AT4060 tube cardioid, which sounded fantastic. I sent this through a Peavey VMP-2 tube mic preamp, then through an FMR RNLA (I used more compression than I usually do, having as much as -10dB of compression on the peaks. I think I did it at a 2:1 ratio, but had the threshold a bit lower than I usually set it at for this kind of thing).

 

I'm still mixing, but I didn't go for the total hard-panning, instead preferring about 75%, which sounded better to my ear. The band liked it there as well. Bass and drums on the left, piano or organ and guitar on the right, vocals right up the middle.

 

For reverb, I am using a TC Electronic M300 on a plate setting and an AIR Spring Reverb plugin. This is on the keyboards, snare, and of course, the vocals. I used the spring reverb on the Carr Rambler amp and tracked it that way, so it sounds really great. Commit, commit!!

 

One of the things I noticed about the original Doors recordings was how much reverb they used. It's slathered in reverb. I never realized that until I began listening with more of a technically minded ear.