Lessons from NAMM 2012

[Philter]

I would like an Ipad for the remote control of ProTools, but honestly interns are cheaper than Ipads these days.

[temnov]

It's so interesting to read these posts. You guys should learn from your kids. Totally different mentality. They are not so much tied up to physical devices as to new "virtual" ones. They use what's convenient and available right now. They don't ask these questions "what if", they just work with tools they can use right now to create their music.

 

I love hardware, and I like my computers. However when kid on iPad makes very nice music it's great.

 

I'm trying to be as relevant and current as possible, too. I know some other guy who is up there on the edge - Mr. CA

[spokenward]

It's so interesting to read these posts. You guys should learn from your kids. Totally different mentality. They are not so much tied up to physical devices as to new "virtual" ones. They use what's convenient and available right now. They don't ask these questions "what if", they just work with tools they can use right now to create their music.

 

oh, yeah, sure, but people lose their smartphones and iPads in taxis just like they lose stradivari...

 

I'm with temnov, I really don't understand the antipathy.

 

[video=youtube;_t9t0kZRJ54]

 

(this was from the ThumbJam twitter feed.)

 

 

I do understand the complaint about the expense, but the devices do create a platform for creative ideas by developers.

 

It is as interesting as the first software boom of the middle 1980s.

[Anderton]

I love hardware, and I like my computers. However when kid on iPad makes very nice music it's great.

 

Well, give me two spoons and a glass, and I'll make music too

 

My biggest concern isn't about what an iPad can or cannot do, but the tying of one's creative endeavors to a consumer device that is subject to change without notice. I feel that much of what accounts for "technique" in music is due to the development of muscle memory over a period of years, and I like to develop a relationship with an instrument. Even an "obsolete" keyboard has a personality - I still like my Peavey DPM3 from 1989, I can still play it, and I can still get parts for it to keep it alive. I can still get strings for my 1966 Telecaster and I don't have to learn a new type of fretboard every four or five years. Will what I learn on an iPad in 2012 still be valid in 2035? Of course I'll be dead so it doesn't really matter, but you get my point

[temnov]

I'm not sure about 2035, Craig. You are still in a pretty good shape

 

My biggest concern isn't about what an iPad can or cannot do, but the tying of one's creative endeavors to a consumer device that is subject to change without notice.

 

I understand that. So, I have iPad, and as I got it I'd use it for music with Moog, Omni or V-Control and maybe even this new WaveLab app. It could be lost in a cab. But again, anything could be lost. I'm not concerned about iPad being updated, I still will be able to use this version for the same reading and video and anything else. When something new is here I'll consider it, too, it's not a problem. I'm not gonna run and buy, I'll consider it, that's all.

 

It is as interesting as the first software boom of the middle 1980s

 

Very valid point, too. Nobody is complaining that Atari and Z80 aren't here anymore. Just move on!

 

Craig, April is on. Working on it.

[Lee Flier]

My biggest concern isn't about what an iPad can or cannot do, but the tying of one's creative endeavors to a consumer device that is subject to change without notice. I feel that much of what accounts for "technique" in music is due to the development of muscle memory over a period of years, and I like to develop a relationship with an instrument. Even an "obsolete" keyboard has a personality - I still like my Peavey DPM3 from 1989, I can still play it, and I can still get parts for it to keep it alive. I can still get strings for my 1966 Telecaster and I don't have to learn a new type of fretboard every four or five years.

 

Totally hear you on that. I can't really imagine treating any iPad instrument as a "serious" instrument. To me they're either occasional coloration for a track, tools for composition/creating demos, and/or just fun to play and stimulate creativity. Otherwise, give me wood and metal and skin and real hardware - I don't even use synths, nor digital guitar pedals. I don't want an LCD screen anywhere near my stage. You get the idea. I'm ALL about the physical interaction with the instrument. I reckon I'm not telling you anything you don't already know about me. But you're totally right on to bring this up, because there definitely are people who are really putting a lot of time into mastering iPad instruments, and it would suck if they lost that investment.

 

Don't think it won't happen, either. Talk to a video professional about Final Cut Pro X sometime - Apple basically pulled the rug out from under that program and completely removed a lot of its functionality. People depended on that software to make their living, and now they can't upgrade without losing key functions. (To be fair, they are addressing these issues, but anybody who upgraded since its release last June was pretty shocked).

 

Last but not least, third party app developers for iPad/iPhone really don't make much money - rare is the app that makes enough to be worth the investment of time. Most apps sell for under $10, and Apple's developer program really doesn't give developers much incentive to update their apps. It's not uncommon for a developer to just abandon an app after its initial release, and it just becomes unusable one day when you update your iPad's OS and your app is no longer compatible. So unless it's a known company who's using their iPad apps as part of a larger business model, don't count on your favorite apps always being available.

 

All that said, the iPad is really the first "soft" user interface that appeals to my hardware-oriented sensibilities. It's genuinely fun to use and there are some seriously creative folks developing music and audio and other creative apps. As comfortable as I am with computers in general, I've never been able to warm up to computer based instruments, or mixing with a mouse. So I'm having a blast with the iPad, but for sure I don't want to get too dependent on it. I treat it more like a Zen sand painting. And luckily a lot of apps do allow you to export your work to a computer as audio or MIDI so you can at least save what you've done. I'm OK with capturing the moment and moving on.

[scarecrowbob]

"I treat it more like a Zen sand painting."

 

I like that.

 

I bought a little zoom h4n to do audio for amateur films, and just for fun I've been doing quick 4-track songs where I play all the parts. I like it because it is insanely hard to do much more than record a part and then track anothe part on top. Punching in is possible, but a PITA. And if I want "reverb" on the part, it gets tracked with "reverb"... no fiddling with it.

 

Kinda fun to just lay down a song, and I even built a little "studio" for it. I have a two mic desktop stand, and on one mic clip I put the H4 and another has a Schoeps SDC (I really, really don't like the mics on the H4, but whatever):

 

 

The thing is: it is not a professional tool. It is a toy. And it's fun. And if I lose stuff (which I will), that is okay.

 

Like sand painting.

 

But like most toys, it's also disposable. And if it stopped working, oh well. Maybe I'll get another, maybe I'll move on to the next fun thing.

 

However, I -do not- feel that way about most of my other equipment. The mic that is attached to that H4 is a tool that I got for working (and make money off of), and there is no way that I could justify purchasing that mic if I didn't put it to professional use and have it live a long, long useful life.

 

My feeling is that a lot of these applications dealing with the iPad (or the recent digital mixers, or a lot of plugin development, or a lot of current music technology ) is all about creating a particular kind of consumer who is buying stuff to have fun. A lot of tech development seems more about opening up markets for technological products rather that opening up possibilities for musicians, and I don't like that.

[Lee Flier]

The thing is: it is not a professional tool. It is a toy. And it's fun. And if I lose stuff (which I will), that is okay.

 

Yeah. Even though I have a nicely equipped home studio, I still generally keep my "composition" sessions separate from my "keeper" sessions, and when I'm just kicking ideas around, I'd rather have something simple and fun, and it's OK if stuff gets lost. I'm going to start over anyway when I record it "for real."

 

My feeling is that a lot of these applications dealing with the iPad (or the recent digital mixers, or a lot of plugin development, or a lot of current music technology ) is all about creating a particular kind of consumer who is buying stuff to have fun. A lot of tech development seems more about opening up markets for technological products rather that opening up possibilities for musicians, and I don't like that.

 

Yeah, there is some of that going on for sure, and it is annoying. But there are also lots of creative tools for musicians, so...

[MargeHowel]

CDs are already digital, you are really just importing I've done it, a couple thousand CDs. There are services that do it, but what I did was just made it a little running side project. I'd grab 5-10 at a time and have the ripper running while i was doing something else. You don't have to sit there and just watch the thing run. I just got a Kindle. I like it. But I still read magazines and "regular" books anyway. But you know what? The Kindle has a little browser that I can use via 3G when I travel so I can answer an occasional email and look up stuff. I can take books with me and not stuff up my backpack full of books when I travel. I can save some space at home too. I love it! What's not to like?

 

[MargeHowel]

One good EMP, and all the cloud stuff goes away.

 

I think it'd take a number of them wouldn't it (aren't they LoS)

 

The paper doesn't

 

which is important because we are going to need a lot of tinder after EMPs of that scale

 

we'll want some firelight as we fletch our arrows after all!

[UstadKhanAli]

I've done it, a couple thousand CDs. There are services that do it, but what I did was just made it a little running side project. I'd grab 5-10 at a time and have the ripper running while i was doing something else. You don't have to sit there and just watch the thing run.

 

Oh, I know that, but it seems like such an endeavor when you're looking at this wall of CDs.

 

CDs are already digital, you are really just importing

 

BTW, my CDs are analog.

[TieDyedDevil]

1. Manufacturers now treat iPads as an OEM CPU/Display sub-assembly, but supplied by the user. 2. Wireless is replacing cables. 3. Stand-alone iPad apps don't make money (although Auria probably will). 4. Everyone has something that's iOS compatible.

 

I guess I'm going to have to go hide under a rock until this fad blows over and the marketing geniuses who envisioned all of this crap go back to a job more suited to their unique talents and insights.

 

I've been out of the hardware business for decades (so call me out on my assumptions if they're mistaken, Craig), but I'd guess that a manufacturer could source a decent display and put it in their product for a fraction of the $500 that they're asking new adopters to spend on an iPad. True, the purpose-built display won't have the sex appeal of an iPad, but then what musical purpose does the eye-candy serve? This kinda reminds me of when DAWs started adding photo-realistic gear images in their UI. One even went so far as to model the physics of hanging patch cords; I'm sure that improved the sound of a lot of well-known tracks...

 

Even if the commercial motivation for iPad tie-ins is to avoid the R&D costs associated with sourcing and programming a purpose-built display, I have to wonder whether any of these marketing geniuses have given the concept any thought beyond the first device. So I have my Digitech floor processor and my Alesis recording dock, and I want to lay down some tracks... No problem, right? Pop the iPad into the Alesis for recording, then into the Digitech to tweak a patch. Surely that won't interfere with my creative flow... Or do I just run out and buy another iPad for every device that I want to operate concurrently...?

 

Wireless: I may concede that it'll find some new applications. But I'd be concerned, especially as a city-dweller, about spectrum allocation. There are already far too many devices on the 900 MHz and 2.4 GHz bands. I'm not willing to put up with a muted signal or increased latency at unpredictable intervals.

 

I kinda like the idea of wireless control and audio for "casual" applications (i.e. things that aren't going to make my blood pressure rise because of a temporary transport delay), though.

 

Personally, I think the reason that a lot of manufacturers have bought into the iPad is because of the opportunities for monetization offered by the App Store. Yes, the base app is part of the purchase price of the hardware. But vendors can use in-app purchases to add features, and charge for those features. Look at what Digitech is doing with the iStomp; that's just the first shot across the bow, as far as I'm concerned.

[MargeHowel]

 

Oh, I know that, but it seems like such an endeavor when you're looking at this wall of CDs.

 

 

It's like any big job - break it down to smaller, manageable sub goals.

 

don't rip a wall of CDs..just rip 5 CDs. That's not so many

 

 

then when yo are done with that, rip 5 CDs

 

 

better yet -- cook dinner. While you are waiting for the water to boil, put in a CD to rip. Water boiling? put in the pasta and put in another CD.

 

strain pasta, put in another CD.

 

that's 3 CDs you did just by making pasta

[MikeRivers]

 

I'd guess that a manufacturer could source a decent display and put it in their product for a fraction of the $500 that they're asking new adopters to spend on an iPad.

 

 

Maybe, or maybe not. There's a lot of code in an iPad that makes the display work that the manufacturer would have to write on his own, and that's not trivial. But just for the sake of your argument, let's say that Mackie could make a display for their new digital mixer that does all the iPad does in terms of controlling the mixer, and can make it for $300 total cost - parts, labor, software development and test, assembly, etc. He'd have to add that to the cost of the mixer, so it would be a $1,295 complete mixer rather than a $995 BYOD (bring your own display) mixer.

 

Since you've been out of the hardware game for a while, you may not realize that the price point is one of the most important specifications when it comes to designing a piece of hardware. SOME people can use it at the price of $995. Mackie is counting on the fact that most of the people drooling over a mixer like this already have an iPad or aren't adverse to having a good excuse to get one, so this allows them to advertise a lower selling price than if they included the display.

 

It's how it works when you're the leader in a field where people have become accustomed to getting a lot of functionality for very little money. Things are different in the very small corner of the industry where people will be choosing between an API, a Neve, and an SSL console for the new room in their studio. They aren't going to buy a Mackie or a Behringer to save money or because that will save them from running wiring for the musicians in the studio to adjust their own headphone mixes.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

It's like any big job - break it down to smaller, manageable sub goals. don't rip a wall of CDs..just rip 5 CDs. That's not so many then when yo are done with that, rip 5 CDs better yet -- cook dinner. While you are waiting for the water to boil, put in a CD to rip. Water boiling? put in the pasta and put in another CD. strain pasta, put in another CD. that's 3 CDs you did just by making pasta

 

 

I can't argue with that...you're absolutely right....

[Lawrence Farr]

Can't leave out this valuable lesson... Craig mastering...

 

[video=youtube;Vg0mutoe61g]

[TieDyedDevil]

Maybe, or maybe not. There's a lot of code in an iPad that makes the display work that the manufacturer would have to write on his own, and that's not trivial. But just for the sake of your argument, let's say that Mackie could make a display for their new digital mixer that does all the iPad does in terms of controlling the mixer, and can make it for $300 total cost - parts, labor, software development and test, assembly, etc. He'd have to add that to the cost of the mixer, so it would be a $1,295 complete mixer rather than a $995 BYOD (bring your own display) mixer. Since you've been out of the hardware game for a while, you may not realize that the price point is one of the most important specifications when it comes to designing a piece of hardware. The fact that SOME people can use it at the price of $995. Mackie is counting on the fact that most of the people drooling over a mixer like this already have an iPad or aren't adverse to having a good excuse to get one, so this allows them to advertise a lower selling price than if they included the display. It's how it works when you're the leader in a field where people have become accustomed to getting a lot of functionality for very little money. Things are different in the very small corner of the industry where people will be choosing between an API, a Neve, and an SSL console for the new room in their studio. They aren't going to buy a Mackie or a Behringer because they don't have to run wiring for the musicians in the studio to adjust their own headphone mixes.

 

Thanks, Mike. I appreciate the info.

[Beck]

BTW, my CDs are analog.

 

In all seriousness many of my CD

[deanmass]

Well, no matter what, right or wrong, iPad has WON the 'tablet' war. It is THE tablet to build around. I have owned one since 2 weeks after Rev 1 came out. I find new uses for it everyday, and use my laptop less and less. Currently, the band project I am working on, is is our practice 1) Sound source ( let's listen to it) 2) Cheat sheet/fake book 3) Tuner 4) Lyrics/Songbook editor then email all right from it. Then I think of the other little apps...The thing called the Tenori-on is awesome. Beatwave, in essence the exact same thing, is like 10 bucks, and works like a champ. I use it as a Kindle reader, though, we have an actual Kindle and it is better for reading due to the screen and size. The music stuff alone is worth it, not even getting into watching Netflix, movies, etc. Tablets are the bomb. I think Android will stabilize, but, they are now so far behind that it is going to take the next sea change thing to displace iPad. I just love the direction it is going. The 'thing' can be whatever the software tells it to be....That is damn close to Minority Report tech. The new Digitech stompboxs are brilliant...assuming you are not stuck on analog only..BEAM in the brain of the BOX and make it whatever you want? This is simply brilliant....This will save them so much on manufacturing costs...one chassis vs all the pain/different buttons, etc. All fun stuff.

[deanmass]

One other point that might have been missed unless I missed it here...as long as the interfaces are working, the scree/software is FAR more replaceable with the iPad than say the touch screen on a Roland Fantom, etc. 10 years down the line, or even sooner, break one of those, and I know they are expensive to fix.

[MikeRivers]

 

One other point that might have been missed unless I missed it here...as long as the interfaces are working, the scree/software is FAR more replaceable with the iPad than say the touch screen on a Roland Fantom, etc. 10 years down the line, or even sooner, break one of those, and I know they are expensive to fix.

 

 

That's a valid point, but in practice, if you lose the built-in display for a Roland synth that's 10 years old, Roland might or might not have the replacement part. If you had an iPad the same age as the keyboard as the display, it clearly will not be replaceable unless you can find one at the used iPad store. In three years, the model that they make then will be both software and hardware incompatible with what they're making now.

[UstadKhanAli]

Mike, I think you're overthinking this way too much, in my opinion. I doubt people consider iPads to be much less disposable than iPhones. Really, if someone uses the darn thing for 3-5 years, they're probably thrilled. Then they'll probably ditch it and get another iPad or whatever is magical at the time. Who the hell is going to keep an iPad for as long as a Roland synth?

 

BTW, my Roland synths were made between 1983-1990!!!! And by the way, their screens and MIDI and everything else are still working.

[MikeRivers]

 

Mike, I think you're overthinking this way too much, in my opinion. I doubt people consider iPads to be much less disposable than iPhones. Really, if someone uses the darn thing for 3-5 years, they're probably thrilled . Then they'll probably ditch it and get another iPad or whatever is magical at the time.

 

 

This is true, if they're using it as an iPad. But if it's an essential part of another device, whether it's a mixer, a recorder, a synthesizer, or a signal processor, the replacement iPad that you can get several years after you bought the hardware to go with the iPad (or vice versa) may not be compatible with your new iPad. So while you may have a brand new iPad, you don't have a mixer or a synth any more.

 

Who the hell is going to keep an iPad for as long as a Roland synth?

 

Someone who buys a Roland synth that requires an iPad to operate it. I don't believe there is such an animal at this time, but there certainly is a Mackie mixer like that.

 

You may fairly ask who wants to keep any piece of music or audio hardware for more than a few years. Some of us do. My Soundcraft console, that I bought new in I think 1988, is still working, and I can still repair it. Lord only knows how old my Ampeg Reverbrocket amplifer is, but it needs new filter capacitors now and I know I can replace them - not with the original parts, of course, but with suitable replacements. But there are no microprocessors and no software, and the displays as such are the numbers printed on the panel and the dot on the knobs (much of which has worn off the console by now but I can still use it).

 

An iPad is fine as the control surface for something that you consider to be as expendable as an iPad, but if you plan to continue to use anything for 10 years or more, it had better not have a microprocessor, software, or computer hardware in it. I'm stocking up on 120-160 GB IDE disk drives now to keep "tape" for my Mackie hard disk recorder. And Mackie was wise enough to use an industrial motherboard which is still available from the manufacturer who bought the manufacturer who bought the original manufacturer, and there are still a few places who will sell PC100 memory (albeit for a high price - I have a couple of spare sticks). But this is a simple machine as computer based audio hardware goes. If it should ever need a new audio clock board or converter board, I'd be SOL except for the used market.

 

 

BTW, my Roland synths were made between 1983-1990!!!! And by the way, their screens and MIDI and everything else are still working.

 

 

That's because they used real parts to build the whole thing rather than telling you to buy a throwaway consumer end product to finish it up.

[Lee Flier]

I agree with Ken, Mike - you're over-thinking this. First of all, I do know several people who have older Roland synths that work fine except that the LCD screen doesn't work anymore and they can't find a replacement for less than a gajillion dollars. Screens are often the first things to burn out on any electronic gear and if it was a custom purpose built thing, chances of being able to find a compatible replacement are not good. I am also willing to bet that iPads will last longer than the cheapo screens they put in these products - they were built to stand up to the abuse of being carried around in all sorts of conditions.

 

Second, again, just because companies make products that "depend on" an iPad doesn't mean exactly what you're saying it means. It just means that people who already have iPads can find even more cool uses for it. Again there is one Mackie mixer out of many that requires an iPad. Presumably you would only buy it if you already have an iPad. If you don't, there are plenty of other Mackie mixers that have the same preamps and other features and do not require an iPad.

 

I mean, most people don't buy stompboxes unless they own a guitar. So it would be silly to complain that you have to invest in a guitar if you want to buy a stompbox. People who don't own guitars buy rackmount effects or use software effects (oh, but the plugins require a computer... oops). Yet there is still a vibrant market for stompboxes for people who do own guitars. It's the same way with these iPad interfaced products. There's never been a time where musicians and audio folks have had more different options than we have now, and that's a good thing, not a bad thing. I can buy an iPad based mixer, a computer based mixer, a hardware digital mixer/controller, or a completely old-school analog mixer, and all of the above have tons of competition and a vibrant market. That's just cool!

[Anderton]

Additionally, the iPad has reached "critical mass" in the music market. You might be really reluctant to buy an iPad if it worked only with, say, a Mackie mixer and the DigiTech iPB-10. But there are so many options right now you have major choice, and what's more, because it has become a sort of standard, companies will be more likely to design accessories (e.g., the PreSonus remote control) around it.

 

I just wish I could get a promise that Apple won't change the connector or interface spec for many, many years