Members Bookumdano2 Posted March 2, 2012 Members Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm really tired of the gas price thing... and I hardly go anywhere unless by plane. Any opinions on cars that now run on natural gas? I'm seriously thinking that's the way to go for my next car type .....and also maybe for some long range investing in the companies supplying the gas and technology. In only a few days of checking things out, I'm not seeing many downsides. Here in S Cal, there are plenty of refueling stations for anywhere I might need to go.... price is what... $1.00 a gallon or something? The cars themselves seem to have a bit higher up front price, but not by a huge amount. Apparently, there are also gizmos you can attach to your home gas line to tap from that to fill up too. Plus I can use all the carpool lanes any time... maybe even dump my Fasttrack. Am I missing something regarding this technology compared to electric cars? Seems pretty attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted March 2, 2012 Members Share Posted March 2, 2012 I don't know anything about natural gas cars, but please post your findings here. I'm sure a lot of people here are quite interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BushmasterM4 Posted March 2, 2012 Members Share Posted March 2, 2012 Plenty of trucks that run on LP gas in my area. Especially School buses. Havent seen too many cars that run on it here. A standard car will run on it and the conversion process is pretty straight foward and if done yourself, fairly cheap. Plus it results in lower pollution and it is said to extend the motor life. Running costs are 10 to 15 % cheaper than gasoline. Plenty of online articles and conversion kits available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted March 2, 2012 Members Share Posted March 2, 2012 0 I'm really tired of the gas price thing... and I hardly go anywhere unless by plane. Any opinions on cars that now run on natural gas? I'm seriously thinking that's the way to go for my next car type .....and also maybe for some long range investing in the companies supplying the gas and technology. In only a few days of checking things out, I'm not seeing many downsides. Here in S Cal, there are plenty of refueling stations for anywhere I might need to go.... price is what... $1.00 a gallon or something? The cars themselves seem to have a bit higher up front price, but not by a huge amount. Apparently, there are also gizmos you can attach to your home gas line to tap from that to fill up too. Plus I can use all the carpool lanes any time... maybe even dump my Fasttrack. Am I missing something regarding this technology compared to electric cars? Seems pretty attractive. You lose some trunk space sometimes, or no spare tire. Price is more like 2.50 per gasoline gallon equivalent (gge) in most places, give or take 50 cents. They have a shorter driving range. Most likely the best way to actually save money is buy a gently used normal car with good mileage and then drive it into the ground. $8000 used car vs $25,000 new CNG car, fuel price difference of $1.50/gge, say 30 mpg each, you would have to drive 340,000 miles in the CNG car before you justified that $25k price tag. But compared to a new non-CNG car the break even would come much sooner. So really the question comes down to, is it really about saving money? Or is it about getting an expensive car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted March 2, 2012 Members Share Posted March 2, 2012 Let me do another comparison... Honda Civic GX CNG car, $26,000 base price, 27 mpgge city, 38 mpgge highwayHonda Fit gasoline car, $15,000 base price, 27 mpg city, 33 mpg highway You would have to drive 198,000 city miles before the fuel savings made up for the price difference. And the Fit has a much larger trunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted March 2, 2012 Members Share Posted March 2, 2012 A lot of public service vehicles here run on CNG, but you have to really put a lot of miles and have a fleet of vehicles before it saves money. So it works if you have a bunch of trucks running all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted March 2, 2012 Members Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yeah I don't think I would bother with a CNG car at this point. I'd just get a hybrid or electric car, or if you're on a tight budget, buy a used diesel car and run it on biodiesel if you can get it (or make it). Natural gas prices are just as subject to speculation woes as gasoline. Just because it's cheaper than gasoline now doesn't mean it will be for the foreseeable future; as demand continues to rise, so will the price. Electric cars are reasonably future proof, because the source of electricity could be anything. It makes no difference to the car whether the charge comes from a coal fired power plant or a solar one. As of right now though, I'm with Philter - I buy used cars and drive them till they fall apart. If the gas mileage is decent, you'll still save money overall even given the current gas price situation. I bought a used (2010) Kia Soul last year and hopefully by the time I would need to buy another car, electric cars will be common and cheaper. Right now they're juuuuuust on the verge of getting that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted March 2, 2012 Members Share Posted March 2, 2012 The next step for me is probably plug-in hybrid. My 2005 Prius has been the most solid car I have ever owned and is still going strong. For 6 years, I drove it solo in the carpool lane (I paid $8 for the stickers, and that was it). I can't even describe what a perk that is for certain commutes. It saved me thousands of hours of driving time over the course of a few years. Probably 20-30 minutes daily on the approach to the Bay Bridge alone. BTW, if you had the East Bay - SF commute, I believe a natural gas car would save you a couple of thousand dollars in tolls over 3 years in addition to your time. If you add tax incentives and assume gas is going to remain over $4 gallon at least for part of the year from now on, the price gap doesn't seem all that large to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted March 2, 2012 Members Share Posted March 2, 2012 I know some folks who own and operate a sizeable propane company, and they've got most of their bobtail delivery trucks running on propane. Makes a lot of sense in a high-mileage commercial delivery context. For everyday autos, the picture is not as clear. Doing the conversion is easier on older model engines, but it's still a bit tricky. And then there's your source to pull into for buying fuel - not many of those. It can still work for the right vehicle in the right city, sure. But as others have mentioned, the hybrids are affordable and impressive. My wife just bought - I mean a couple of days ago - a 2010 Prius for $17-five. 50 mpg in town. There's your gas for half to a quarter the price relative to what most people still drive. If you fill up your 18 gallon tank for $3.50 per gal you pay $63 and drive how far on that tank - 300 to 400 miles most likely. To drive 400 miles in the Prius costs about $28. $63 worth of gas will get the Prius down the road to the tune of 900 miles. It's crazy - in the same dealership were the gigantic new Tundras with sticker prices from $35K-$45K, getting 14 mpg in town, 18 highway. And people commute long distances in those things, single occupancy plus coffee cup... It's just too clear, to me at any rate. Sure, the oil companies are not Friends Of Humanity by any stretch. But people, everyday people, still want those big wasteful machines and are willing to pay for them, over and over and over again. But at least there's some progress... nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted March 2, 2012 Members Share Posted March 2, 2012 As of right now though, I'm with Philter - I buy used cars and drive them till they fall apart. If the gas mileage is decent, you'll still save money overall even given the current gas price situation. I bought a used (2010) Kia Soul last year and hopefully by the time I would need to buy another car, electric cars will be common and cheaper. Right now they're juuuuuust on the verge of getting that way. This is what I've been doing as well. Buy a good used car, drive it until it cries uncle. Let someone else pay for some of the depreciation. I may look into getting a Kia Soul as my next car. Who knows. My car is still doing really well. It's approaching 100,000, and it's been well-maintained, so I think it'll keep going for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philbo Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 I know some folks who own and operate a sizeable propane company, and they've got most of their bobtail delivery trucks running on propane. Makes a lot of sense in a high-mileage commercial delivery context.For everyday autos, the picture is not as clear. Doing the conversion is easier on older model engines, but it's still a bit tricky. And then there's your source to pull into for buying fuel - not many of those. It can still work for the right vehicle in the right city, sure. But as others have mentioned, the hybrids are affordable and impressive. My wife just bought - I mean a couple of days ago - a 2010 Prius for $17-five. 50 mpg in town. There's your gas for half to a quarter the price relative to what most people still drive. If you fill up your 18 gallon tank for $3.50 per gal you pay $63 and drive how far on that tank - 300 to 400 miles most likely. To drive 400 miles in the Prius costs about $28. $63 worth of gas will get the Prius down the road to the tune of 900 miles.It's crazy - in the same dealership were the gigantic new Tundras with sticker prices from $35K-$45K, getting 14 mpg in town, 18 highway. And people commute long distances in those things, single occupancy plus coffee cup...It's just too clear, to me at any rate. Sure, the oil companies are not Friends Of Humanity by any stretch. But people, everyday people, still want those big wasteful machines and are willing to pay for them, over and over and over again. But at least there's some progress...nat whilk ii Well, geez, you don't expect those 275 lb 'cowboys' to squeeze into a Honda Civic, do you? Fat vehicles are for fat people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beck Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LiveMusic Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'm in the oil and gas business and keep up with natural gas as a fuel. I'd buy one as my next vehicle but I don't think it's time yet. They are ramping up building the infrastructure of natural gas refueling stations across the country but that'll take 3-5 years. First, that is for big trucks, 18 wheelers. They will convert. Many large fleet users are already converting. As for cars, we need more fueling stations first. As for a cheap conversion kit, I am not aware of such. They're pretty expensive. And as for gasoline prices, I would not be surprised at all if we soon enter the era of $5+ gasoline in the USA. Get ready. I don't think I've ever seen such a consensus of forecasters say that long-term, crude oil prices will rise even further. Mind you, it will be volatile, but the trend is up. The poorer nations are just now industrializing. It's quite a paradigm shift. Millions up millions of people are converting from bicycle to cars. China and India, alone, are enough to be a large factor on demand. As a consumer, I like cheap natural gas but as someone whose income is based in natural gas, I need for it go back up to a reasonable level! It is dirt cheap right now, cheapest in ten years. Too cheap! It's a bloodbath in the natural gas industry. We have found huge reserves of natural gas recently. Who knows when the glut will play out. Might be two years, might be ten. If so, consumers win. But we need it about double its current price to sustain natural gas field development. It was there just a year or so ago (and that was thought to be low), but it's crashed bad in the past several months. With a natural gas powered truck/car fleet, we could give OPEC the finger if we wanted to. Beats me, I don't think they want to. I just hope oil doesn't go through the roof. Good for my income, bad for the economy and we don't want another recession. But watch out, it could spike, and will spike, and it will be really high, with any major turmoil in the middle east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 This is what I've been doing as well. Buy a good used car, drive it until it cries uncle. Let someone else pay for some of the depreciation. I may look into getting a Kia Soul as my next car. Who knows. My car is still doing really well. It's approaching 100,000, and it's been well-maintained, so I think it'll keep going for a while. I'm at 160k and the bottom of my gear shift is attached to the shift cable with zip ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LiveMusic Posted March 7, 2012 Members Share Posted March 7, 2012 I know several people 'round here with Asian manufacture small pickups that have 300,000 to 400,000 miles. That is not uncommon. I've also seen a couple small Ford Rangers way up there. Amazing longevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dav1 Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 I know several people 'round here with Asian manufacture small pickups that have 300,000 to 400,000 miles. That is not uncommon. I've also seen a couple small Ford Rangers way up there. Amazing longevity. I have nearly 300000 miles on my Ford (yes, really), and it's still going. LP gas is common around here (Tasmania, Australia) on working vehicles, especially trucks and taxis. My brother's work car has it and has lost about half his boot-space. Costs a few thousand dollars to convert a car and pays for itself reasonably quickly here with current prices. I'd skip it though... I like my storage space and modern Japanese/European cars are efficient enough to run affordably on petrol at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hard Truth Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 We have some in the motor pool at work. (converted from petroleum vehicles) You don't notice a difference when driving them. The disadvantages are the loss of trunk space and the limited number of filling stations. Also, you need to pay more attention when refueling. If the hose gets loose it will whip around dangerously from the gas pressure. Although natural gas is cleaner than petroleum, it still does create greenhouse gasses. However, methane is a natural byproduct of rotting garbage, so there could and should be plenty of options for obtaining gas. When evaluating the environmental impacts, one also needs to take the impact of the materials and the manufacturing and disposal process for each new car. I suspect that a used car with reasonable gas mileage probably has a smaller overall environment impact than a new car that runs more cleanly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted March 8, 2012 Members Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'm at 160k and the bottom of my gear shift is attached to the shift cable with zip ties. You've just described the sorts of cars that I've driven for most of my adult life, Philter!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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