Way OT - Windows OS purchasing advice

[scarecrowbob]

Okay-- this is kind of a goofy question, but I've had good luck asking questions like this here....

 

99% of my business is web development, mostly front end and WordPress.

 

I'm using a dual-boot XP32/Ubuntu machine as my main development environment and my beater laptop is ubuntu. I really like Linux and have been finding it super useful for doing everything from git to working with EC2s.

 

Last week I purchased a macbook pro (not retina ) because I need Ps, I really like the hardware, and it's running a unix-based OS, not to mention that there are bunch of tools (textmate, torch, etc.) that are osx... and ultimately I'd like to be able to dev iOS apps.

 

HOWEVER....

 

My main client (who wants to hire me and who has infinite money) is placing me on a team that, in addition to all the WP/OSS stuff I do, is developing an ASP .NET data visualization/big data stuff. So here is my question:

 

Would I be better off buying Windows 7 or waiting for 8? Is moving to XP64 a realistic move at this point in time?

 

Will W7 be around for a while? I have heard it is much better than Vista.

 

Anybody know anything about visual studio? I think that I will be required to purchase it, but if I can get work done with VS Express, I'd rather go that way...

 

Finally, any general career advice? I'm currently still developing sites in PHP for most of my work, and was hoping to go towards Ruby/Rails in an attempt to get better "programming" oriented projects, but these folks have enough money to actually make me think about pursuing windows based development as a skill even though it really looks quite odious in comparison to OSS.

[BushmasterM4]

I have several PC's in my household running everything from Windows 98 through Windows 7. Most of them run Windows XP, but my studio rig (DAW rig) I finally jumped to Windows 7 and have not had any issues. My game and personal rig runs Windows 7 also and its rock solid. I installed the 64 bit version on both and it runs all my old software without any issues. And I had not one harware issue including my older scanner which Windows Vista had issues with. Windows 8 will add some things, but nothing major that would benefit the wait. I would do Windows 7 64bit. In fact Im about to upgrade all of my household pc's to Win 7

[BushmasterM4]

Another note. You may want to look into registering with Microsoft as an OEM Service Provider if your looking into Windows based support as a career. Im a registered OEM Service Provider and for a small fee you get the benefit of receiving all of their software to use and learn.

[Anderton]

 

Is moving to XP64 a realistic move at this point in time?

 

 

Your questions are definitely above my pay grade, but I can answer the above question: no! XP's 64-bit version isn't even close to Vista or Windows 7. I don't think many companies support it any more.

[Bookumdano2]

 

Will W7 be around for a while?

 

 

I saw the chart last week from MS where they announced Win7 support till 2020!!!! 8 more years from this moment. That's almost unheard of in their normal ways of figuring lifespan.

 

I have a really good idea on why they're doing that.

 

Anyway, my vote is to buy Win 7 64 bit. Which I did last year and it's cool.

[Anderton]

I saw the chart last week from MS where they announced Win7 support till 2020!!!! 8 more years from this moment. That's almost unheard of in their normal ways of figuring lifespan.

 

Windows XP was released in 2000, and has official support until 2014. So it's not unprecedented for MS to have a long support tail.

 

Anyway, my vote is to buy Win 7 64 bit. Which I did last year and it's cool.

Agreed. I've had very few issues with going 64-bit. Well, at least now that ReWire is 64-bit

 

Even hardware that's supposedly not 64-bit compatible can often be used...Google is your friend. I have a Matrox card and Epson scanner that both companies said were absolutely not 64-bit compatible. But Matrox had a driver that worked (there was a suitable .INF file hidden out of public view - I think they just want people to buy new cards), and there was a modified Epson driver on the web that worked too. And most music business companies are way ahead of the curve on 64-bit.

[MikeRivers]

 

99% of my business is web development, mostly front end and WordPress. My main client (who wants to hire me and who has infinite money) is placing me on a team that, in addition to all the WP/OSS stuff I do, is developing an ASP .NET data visualization/big data stuff. So here is my question: Would I be better off buying Windows 7 or waiting for 8? Is moving to XP64 a realistic move at this point in time?

 

 

Well, the key points in your post are:

 

1. You have business and

2. You have a main client

 

Don't screw around with your favorite development system. Go to your friendlly local used computer store, buy a 2 year old Dell for about $200, and install Windows 7 on it. Set it aside for when you do work for your mail cllient. That way it won't get in the way of what you do for your bread and butter and you can learn about it as you work without it wasting time for your smaller clients.

 

I'd give this same advice to someone who is pondering an OS for running music software. In fact I plan on taking it myself, setting up a fresh computer with Win7 to run Pro Tools 10. The only reason I'm dragging my feet now is because the ony hardware I have that's worthy of a Pro Tools system is stuck with WinXP drivers and probably won't get good Win7 Drivers, ever. And I don't need Pro Tools badly enough to buy a new interface.

 

 

Will W7 be around for a while? I have heard it is much better than Vista.

 

 

I think everyone will tell you that it's better than Vista, and it's certainly more modern than XP (which is what I'm still running on all of my computers). I suspect that Win7 will still have a reasonable support life after Win8 if for no other reason than that Win8 looks and works like a tablet from what I've read and heard (I've never seen anyting but screen shots myself) and that's going to have a lot of Win7 users dragging their feet before they migrate to Win8. Microsoft is making noises like they're going to stop supporting XP real soon now but hey, it's been around for well over 10 years now and doesn't really need any more support.

 

 

Finally, any general career advice?

 

 

Don't give up your day job and run off to join the circus. While a 64 bit system is probably a good development environment, I sure hope that web sites won't require it in order to view the pages. I hope I die or lose my eyesight before that happens.

[scarecrowbob]

Cool, it seems like the general consensus is that 7 is an okay deal.

 

Don't screw around with your favorite development system. -MR

 

I totally agree: that's why my bad ass brand new MBP is sitting off to the side as I try different things out in it.

 

I plan to do what I did whit my last machine rebuild: pull the current working OS drive (which only has OS stuff and could be wiped and not cause me any data loss problems) and install W7 on a brand new out of the box drive, and get it working, most likely over a weekend this summer. I dunno if I can realistically operate a fourth machine per your advice, but I am hoping that unless W7 really sucks or there is a specific hardware problem I won't have to pop back to the XP disk.

 

I'm already pretty machine independent, as I'm an Adobe Creative Cloud subscriber (30/mo for everything that they make, plus a 20gb dropbox? On both my osx and win machines? With two seats? And never worry about buying an update? No problem.), and I have my email on a thundirbird portable install on a USB stick so I can move it between computers. Really, as long as I can get a web browser, a text editor and an FTP client working, I can do most of my day to day work.... everything else is just a question of efficiency.

 

While a 64 bit system is probably a good development environment, I sure hope that web sites won't require it in order to view the pages. I hope I die or lose my eyesight before that happens. -MR

 

Me too. However, I am looking at doing some pretty hefty database stuff, as well as operate Visual Studio and author silverlight crap, which looks a bloated high resource pile of yuck. Since I'm already am running XP32 on a 64-bit quad core machine w/12GB ram (which I bought in anticipation of this move last time I upgraded, and which Ubuntu really seems to enjoy ), I think that all the hardware should be up and running.

 

You're spot on that it's a little silly to use a big machine as a basic text editor. My vision of the web in the future is having all the apps served off the net, with clouds of powerful comps (or maybe even not so powerful computers) doing the work while our machines are basically hardware interfaces. We're a long way from that, but if anything computing power of local machines should become less of an issue.

 

You may want to look into registering with Microsoft as an OEM Service Provider if your looking into Windows based support as a career. Im a registered OEM Service Provider and for a small fee you get the benefit of receiving all of their software to use and learn. -BM

 

That's interesting; I looked around but didn't see anything specific. Could you expound on this a bit? Is there a webpage that would get me where you're pointing?

[nat whilk II]

Just a note - if you're going to buy Win 7, get the OEM System Builders version, Professional or Ultimate. The Home version causes odd problems here and there with missing features, and the occasional software system requirement out there insists on Professional, not Home. And the OEM version can be re-installed multiple times and in more than one box, no registration hassles

 

nat whilk ii

[scarecrowbob]

 

Just a note - if you're going to buy Win 7, get the OEM System Builders version, Professional or Ultimate. The Home version causes odd problems here and there with missing features, and the occasional software system requirement out there insists on Professional, not Home. And the OEM version can be re-installed multiple times and in more than one box, no registration hassles nat whilk ii

 

 

Thanks for the tip!

[BushmasterM4]

Here is a link that explains whats involved. http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/community/mpn/pages/microsoft_action_pack.aspx

[philbo]

I saw the chart last week from MS where they announced Win7 support till 2020!!!! 8 more years from this moment. That's almost unheard of in their normal ways of figuring lifespan. I have a really good idea on why they're doing that. Anyway, my vote is to buy Win 7 64 bit. Which I did last year and it's cool.

 

i've been extremely happy with it, which is a first for a microsoft product.

 

i still run my daw as 32bit, but it does that great; absolutely no complaints.

[scarecrowbob]

 

i still run my daw as 32bit, but it does that great; absolutely no complaints.

 

 

The issue for me is the 4gb limitation of a 32 bit OS. That seems like a real barrier, especially when running 30-40 Chrome windows plus a couple of huge Ps comps.

[veracohr]

FWIW, I had to buy (against my wishes) Windows 7 to install on my Macbook Pro (for school, Windows-only programs). I haven't had any problems running Windows 7 on a late-2007 Macbook Pro inside Parallels. And if for some reason you did have issues with Parallels or a similar setup, there's always the dual-boot option, so that you're running Windows natively.

[Beck]

For the use you describe Win 7.

 

For DAW it's still XP SP2 (32-bit) for me and will be into the foreseeable future. There's another thread going here about bloated software. That's what Windows OS's have been since Win 2000. XP is still the best candidate for tweaking into something reasonable. Vista was a flop (I said that from day one). Win 7 continues the MS tradition of blotiosity, but for your purposes you my have to stay current. As far as Win 8, I doubt I

[MikeRivers]

 

Just a note - if you're going to buy Win 7, get the OEM System Builders version, Professional or Ultimate. And the OEM version can be re-installed multiple times and in more than one box, no registration hassles

 

 

How do you get that and how much does it cost? Is it practical for a single user who has a bunch of computers? Would I need a "best client" in order to justify the cost? And what must one be in order to "pass the assessment?" (I suspect I couldn't do that)

[deanmass]

Go to macupdate.com. Buy the bundle, which includes parallells. Use any running windows machine and virtualize it. Run windows on your mac.

 

Another alternate is, make a Vmware server and virtualize xpW7 32 and W7 64.

 

If you are a student anywhere, know a student or teacher, you will pay no more that $55 for Window 7. XP is not sold anymore, so it will be harder to source.

[veracohr]

 

If you are a student anywhere, know a student or teacher, you will pay no more that $55 for Window 7.

 

 

When I was shopping around, I could only find a Windows upgrade for a student price. If you don't already own a version of windows, they don't offer a student price for a full install version.

[scarecrowbob]

 

When I was shopping around, I could only find a Windows upgrade for a student price. If you don't already own a version of windows, they don't offer a student price for a full install version.

 

 

That was my experience as well, outside of simply downloading it from my university for free, as above.

[nat whilk II]

 

How do you get that and how much does it cost? Is it practical for a single user who has a bunch of computers? Would I need a "best client" in order to justify the cost? And what must one be in order to "pass the assessment?" (I suspect I couldn't do that)

 

 

It was December 2009 or January 2010 when I bought it, so it's been a while - from Fry's after they advertised a special. Since they sell so much DIY stuff for kids putting together gamer machines, I guess Microsoft just lets them sell it off the shelf - nothing fancier than that. Looking at my books, I see a Fry's purchase for 162.36 - I bet that's it. It was a very good deal - that's why I jumped on it...

 

Newegg has it now for $189.99 USD - just search Newegg for Windows 7 Ultimate SPI 64-bit - OEM and there you go! It has special licensing, intended for pre-installs for resale by builder/sellers who also provide support, etc. But out there in the real world it also gets used a lot for in-house installations on multiple systems because of the no-hassle activiation.....

 

nat whilk ii

[deanmass]

edresources.com. Full versions.

 

XP is no longer sold.

 

Right now, I'd give the virtual mode a look. Mine are rock solid, however, I am using them only for it management stuff, not coding or recording.

[scarecrowbob]

 

Newegg has it now for $189.99 USD - just search Newegg for Windows 7 Ultimate SPI 64-bit - OEM and there you go!

 

 

Hella.... Thanks for the research!

[MikeRivers]

 

It was December 2009 or January 2010 when I bought it, so it's been a while - from Fry's after they advertised a special. Since they sell so much DIY stuff for kids putting together gamer machines, I guess Microsoft just lets them sell it off the shelf - nothing fancier than that.

 

 

That sounds like what I know of as the "OEM/Builder's" edition. Micro Center also sells it but you have to buy something that looks like you're building a computer, like a motherboard, CPU, or even a case. What's not clear about that (and what prompted my question) was whether you could use that same installation disk on multiple computers. I figured that when you validate the registration (assuming you have to do that with this version) it will tell you, after the first one, that this isn't a valid registration key.

 

What I've been told about the OEM version is that, first off, there's no support from Microsoft, whatever that means. I assume that it will suck up updates which, at least initially, is probably a good thing, but with certain motherboards or peripherals, I might have to go hunting for a driver or control panel application. I've never used anything but a factory Windows installation after Windows 3.1 and I've never re-installed Windows from a recovery disk. Once I tried installing the "refurbisher" edition of XP that came with a refurbished PC on another computer. The install went fine, but the on-line registration failed. So I guess it knew what I was trying to do.

 

Last weekend at a hamfest, a guy was selling supposedly legitimate copies of Win7 that he said his company made from disk images of a business' computers that they were removing Windows from and installing Linux. He had 5-machine installs for $40 and unlimited installs for $50 with a unique registration key for each. But since I have no experience with Win7, I just didn't trust myself to deal with something a bit shady like that.

 

I guess i'm an "ordinary" Windows user. I don't like it, but I live with it.

[nat whilk II]

 

That sounds like what I know of as the "OEM/Builder's" edition. Micro Center also sells it but you have to buy something that looks like you're building a computer, like a motherboard, CPU, or even a case. What's not clear about that (and what prompted my question) was whether you could use that same installation disk on multiple computers. I figured that when you validate the registration (assuming you have to do that with this version) it will tell you, after the first one, that this isn't a valid registration key. What I've been told about the OEM version is that, first off, there's no support from Microsoft, whatever that means. I assume that it will suck up updates which, at least initially, is probably a good thing, but with certain motherboards or peripherals, I might have to go hunting for a driver or control panel application. I've never used anything but a factory Windows installation after Windows 3.1 and I've never re-installed Windows from a recovery disk. Once I tried installing the "refurbisher" edition of XP that came with a refurbished PC on another computer. The install went fine, but the on-line registration failed. So I guess it knew what I was trying to do. Last weekend at a hamfest, a guy was selling supposedly legitimate copies of Win7 that he said his company made from disk images of a business' computers that they were removing Windows from and installing Linux. He had 5-machine installs for $40 and unlimited installs for $50 with a unique registration key for each. But since I have no experience with Win7, I just didn't trust myself to deal with something a bit shady like that. I guess i'm an "ordinary" Windows user. I don't like it, but I live with it.

 

 

I bought the OEM WIn 7 when I tried my first computer build. The computer I'm typing on now is my 2nd DIY pc, and I used the same Win7 OEM install DVD for this one and it activated in a couple of seconds, no problems whatsoever.

 

When I was researching the details for that first DIY pc in 2009 (I research pretty obsessively when it comes to putting these pc boxes together) I came across lots of comments in the innumerable gamer boards online to the effect that the "system builders" Win7 versions could be used for multiple installs.

 

I mean, thinking about it - if MS expects you to be a builder of pcs who sells the boxes and provides support, then MS would have to let you reuse the Win7 installation DVD as many times as you had computers to build and sell. All I do is have two computers - one for music and one for the daily grind, and used the one DVD to stick Win7 on both, no problems whatsoever. And sure, my computers are for sale, too:)

 

The lack of MS support means nothing to me - I've never once availed myself of their support beyond what they have already on their website for everyone.

 

nat whilk ii

[MikeRivers]

That all makes sense. My local Micro Center wants $200 for Win 7 Ultimate OEM. That would be a good deal if I were going to put it on two computers.