Oh wise ones of HC, tell me why the tuning stability of my USA stat sucks?

[RaVenCAD]

 

I would steer clear of locking tuners, unless you simply do not like to wind the strings. Locking tuners make no difference to tuning stability what so ever.

 

 

I see this very wrong answer all the time around here. I wish you people would use a little logic and understand why you are so completely wrong.

 

A typical non-locking tuner requires 3-4 wraps of the string to provide a good, secure tuning. As you add those wraps, you create a coil of wire that is randomly placed on the post. When you hit the trem, the tension on that coil is released, allowing it to relax. When you release the trem, the tension is restored and the coil will re-pile itself into another random position. That new position is usually enough to alter the tuning by a cent or three.

 

Locking tuners, on the other hand, use about 1/2 a wrap to secure the string to the post. There is no random pile of wire wrapped around there. When you hit the trem, tension is released but the string is held firmly in place so that when you release the trem, it goes right back into the same spot.

 

Long story short, locking tuners do indeed help with tuning stability.

 

As for the OP's problem, I'd look at your string gauge. I've used .009s all my playing life, but when I got a Parker Fly recently, I found that the G string will simply NOT stay in tune when I use .009s. It came with .010s and played perfectly, then I switched it to .009s and it went wonky. I went back to .010s and all was well. All I can think of is that the string was thinner and it was binding in the nut slot where the thicker string couldn't fit. The bottom of the slot should look like a U, not a V. When it's a V, the thinner strings can/will bind.

 

Also, skip the pencil lead thing. Go to Guitar Center and buy some GHS nut lube. Take some 409 (or Simple Green, or whatever cleaner you like) and clean out the nut slot using a toothpick. Then take a string of a slightly bigger gauge -- like if your desired string was a 0.020, use a 0.021 -- and drag it through the nut slot a few times. Be a little forceful because you're trying to smooth out the little grooves in the bottom of the slot. Just don't go nutso, cuz you can trash the slot pretty easily. Then put a good blob of the GHS lube on there and drag the string through it again, coating the slot. Clean the excess and then put the real string on it. I betcha that'll take care of your problem.

[BoneNut]

 

I see this very wrong answer all the time around here. I wish you people would use a little logic and understand why you are so completely wrong. A typical non-locking tuner requires 3-4 wraps of the string to provide a good, secure tuning. As you add those wraps, you create a coil of wire that is randomly placed on the post. When you hit the trem, the tension on that coil is released, allowing it to relax. When you release the trem, the tension is restored and the coil will re-pile itself into another random position. That new position is usually enough to alter the tuning by a cent or three. Locking tuners, on the other hand, use about 1/2 a wrap to secure the string to the post. There is no random pile of wire wrapped around there. When you hit the trem, tension is released but the string is held firmly in place so that when you release the trem, it goes right back into the same spot. Long story short, locking tuners do indeed help with tuning stability. As for the OP's problem, I'd look at your string gauge. I've used .009s all my playing life, but when I got a Parker Fly recently, I found that the G string will simply NOT stay in tune when I use .009s. It came with .010s and played perfectly, then I switched it to .009s and it went wonky. I went back to .010s and all was well. All I can think of is that the string was thinner and it was binding in the nut slot where the thicker string couldn't fit. The bottom of the slot should look like a U, not a V. When it's a V, the thinner strings can/will bind. Also, skip the pencil lead thing. Go to Guitar Center and buy some GHS nut lube. Take some 409 (or Simple Green, or whatever cleaner you like) and clean out the nut slot using a toothpick. Then take a string of a slightly bigger gauge -- like if your desired string was a 0.020, use a 0.021 -- and drag it through the nut slot a few times. Be a little forceful because you're trying to smooth out the little grooves in the bottom of the slot. Just don't go nutso, cuz you can trash the slot pretty easily. Then put a good blob of the GHS lube on there and drag the string through it again, coating the slot. Clean the excess and then put the real string on it. I betcha that'll take care of your problem.

 

 

Good advice.

I wrap three or four winds around the peg without locking tuners but not in a random pattern. I just coil them downward on the peg and don't over lap any coils. That combined with using a string lock when I start winding, assures I don't have tunning issues.

 

Truth is, Strat style guitars aren't that easy to set up. Fortunately, there are a lot of good videos on You tube that you can learn from. On a Strat, it's not usually one thing, it's a combination of things that will give you problems.

 

Here again is a link to some of them...

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=stratocaster+setup&aq=o

[LesPaulFetish]

 

That staggered spring thing is nothing but a myth. Every Strat trem I've ever set up, once the height of the trem at rest was of a certain height, it exhibited the 1 semi-tone on the E, 2 semi-tones on the B, and 3 semi-tones on the G behavior that he seems to think comes from his spring setup, but really the only thing that matters is getting the combined tension of the springs correct and once you have that, the only thing that matters is the tension of the individual strings, not the spring pattern in the back. Musicians are bad engineers. Also, lol @ sunburnt face.

 

 

Agreed. Tension is tension, if you think somehow angling springs magically changes things, do it. I just deck it anyway.

[Cold Gin]

You probably dont know how to tune a strat properly. IME strats need much more attention to proper tuning. Also it might need a nutwork.

[grumphh]

 

A typical non-locking tuner requires 3-4 wraps of the string to provide a good, secure tuning.

 

 

No. Absolutely no.

 

This is how i wrap my strings - i do start with wrapping the string 1

[RaVenCAD]

 

No. Absolutely no.   This is how i wrap my strings - i do start with wrapping the string 1

[grumphh]

 

In my 23+ years of playing, I've found 3-4 on the plain strings to be the magic number. Wound strings are more like 2. If you can do it with less, then by all means, do it with less. Plus, you aren't dealing with a trem there. Fixed bridges don't have the same tension issues to deal with. But I HAVE to comment on those hangers. Guitars strung like that are a hazard to everyone around them. If you just bend the string back and forth, it'll break off close to the post and be safe to touch. Clipping them like that always leads to someone getting a painful poke. Then again, maybe that's how you can use less wraps? Looks like your method relies on having those evil hangers, and if you got rid of them, your strings might come completely off.. Frankly, I wouldn't touch a guitar strung like that.

 

 

I bend the string so that it stays put while i apply tension - and yes, after that i just clip it and, as you corrrectly have observed, the ends are painfully sharp.

But when do you actually have to touch that side of the head anyway???

 

And btw, all my guitars (9 electrics + 1 accoustic) are strung that way (well, ok - except the Steinberger) - and have been for the past 10 - 15 years - including two strats with vintage style trems. Tuning problems on the strats come from bad (mexican deep slotted) nuts and the old fashioned string trees...

 

And as i have written before - tuning on my guitars is rock solid, and i have never had a string come off the tuners.

[RaVenCAD]

You never HAVE to touch that side, but sometimes it happens. When it does, someone is going to bleed. Unless you live alone and never interact with other people while holding that guitar, it's irresponsible to not trim those. Especially if there are children around.

[BoneNut]

Here's the method I mentioned and that I use. Honestly never have tuning trouble.

[video=youtube;1rhdxCECcl4]

[honeyiscool]

I can get less than one wind on the bass strings stringing it completely normally on a normal Strat with stock tuners and tremolo bridge. I usually go for at least one and a quarter, but I can do it with less than one on the bass E string. The rest of the strings, I can go with maybe one and a half? I usually go for two full winds on the treble E string. This is with completely normal tuners. With split vintage style tuners, it's even easier.

 

The easiest way I've found is, have the hole facing the nut. Feed the string through it. Pull it completely tight. Eyeball about 3/4" to 1" of an inch past the tuner, grab the string with your thumb there, back it up to the tuner. Now apply a bit of downward pressure with the right hand near the nut, wind.

 

Why are people wrapping it two or more times and then bragging like it's somehow difficult when it's easily accomplished on stock non-locking tuners? And that overlapping wind is... I'm sorry but, it's dumb. It makes unstringing a bitch, and it doesn't look like you're using any fewer winds than I do as a result.

[Belva]

The guy has locking tuners so all the myths surrounding them aren't needed here. Keep in mind many people were able to achieve rock solid tuning stability before lockers ever came out. 'Nuff said.

OP, also keep in mind that we have a bunch of armchair luthiers who are willing to say that they KNOW what's wrong. Someone who does setups for a living will shake their heads at these pseudo techs.

Here's the plain and simple fact. Nobody can really answer your question unless they physically see the guitar. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the width of the nut slots on the affected strings. Could this cause the problem? Yes, as well as many other things that have been mentioned. Take it to a good tech before you sell it.

[cephus]

That's one reason I love vintage split post tuners. Another great idea from leo.

[grumphh]

 

Why are people wrapping it two or more times and then bragging like it's somehow difficult when it's easily accomplished on stock non-locking tuners? And that overlapping wind is... I'm sorry but, it's dumb. It makes unstringing a bitch, and it doesn't look like you're using any fewer winds than I do as a result.

 

Are you talking about my method?

 

Sorry, but what i effectively have, is a quarter turn of loose string on the low E and appr 1 turn on the high. The other winds do not count (imo) because they are behind the clamp that the string itself provides.

That means that i have very little string that can slacken on the tuning post, keeping my tune nicely.

 

As for removing the string - all you have to do is unwind the tuner until you can grab the string and slide it over the post and then just pull the rest of the string through the hole... Doesn't get much simpler?

[RaVenCAD]

 

OP, also keep in mind that we have a bunch of armchair luthiers who are willing to say that they KNOW what's wrong. Someone who does setups for a living will shake their heads at these pseudo techs.

 

 

The dude asked for ideas about why his Strat won't stay in tune. Are you suggesting that HCEG implement some sort of licensing checking system that only officially licensed luthiers can answer questions such as this?

[honeyiscool]

 

That's one reason I love vintage split post tuners. Another great idea from leo.

As far as I care, split post tuners are locking tuners. As long as you have good winding technique and you can make your right hand into an artificial string tree for a few seconds while the initial folds on the string are made, split tuners work as well as any fancy locking tuner and definitely allows you to have fewer wraps than your average tuner.

 

The main problem, of course, is that if you don't know how to string these things, you will think they suck, whereas with normal tuners, anyone can string them, not well but they can at least do it. Also, some guitarists think they can get away without a string cutter, and those guitarists should all be beaten a few times.

[Floyd Rosenbomb]

I see this very wrong answer all the time around here. I wish you people would use a little logic and understand why you are so completely wrong. A typical non-locking tuner requires 3-4 wraps of the string to provide a good, secure tuning. As you add those wraps, you create a coil of wire that is randomly placed on the post. When you hit the trem, the tension on that coil is released, allowing it to relax. When you release the trem, the tension is restored and the coil will re-pile itself into another random position. That new position is usually enough to alter the tuning by a cent or three. Locking tuners, on the other hand, use about 1/2 a wrap to secure the string to the post. There is no random pile of wire wrapped around there. When you hit the trem, tension is released but the string is held firmly in place so that when you release the trem, it goes right back into the same spot. Long story short, locking tuners do indeed help with tuning stability. As for the OP's problem, I'd look at your string gauge. I've used .009s all my playing life, but when I got a Parker Fly recently, I found that the G string will simply NOT stay in tune when I use .009s. It came with .010s and played perfectly, then I switched it to .009s and it went wonky. I went back to .010s and all was well. All I can think of is that the string was thinner and it was binding in the nut slot where the thicker string couldn't fit. The bottom of the slot should look like a U, not a V. When it's a V, the thinner strings can/will bind. Also, skip the pencil lead thing. Go to Guitar Center and buy some GHS nut lube. Take some 409 (or Simple Green, or whatever cleaner you like) and clean out the nut slot using a toothpick. Then take a string of a slightly bigger gauge -- like if your desired string was a 0.020, use a 0.021 -- and drag it through the nut slot a few times. Be a little forceful because you're trying to smooth out the little grooves in the bottom of the slot. Just don't go nutso, cuz you can trash the slot pretty easily. Then put a good blob of the GHS lube on there and drag the string through it again, coating the slot. Clean the excess and then put the real string on it. I betcha that'll take care of your problem.

 

Well, if you don't know how to wind a string properly, then yes, you'll get problems. Simply learning how to wind a string is not hard, and once you have it, whatever type of tuner you use gets taken out of the equation because the string is locked by itself.

Are you suggesting that a Strat with regular tuners can't keep tune?

That is missinformation that you are spreading.

Come on man, use your "logic."

 

And by the way, pencil graphite works identically any other graphite out there, what reason could you possibly have for discouraging it's use, other then ignorance?

 

 

[Floyd Rosenbomb]

The guy has locking tuners so all the myths surrounding them aren't needed here. Keep in mind many people were able to achieve rock solid tuning stability before lockers ever came out. 'Nuff said. OP, also keep in mind that we have a bunch of armchair luthiers who are willing to say that they KNOW what's wrong. Someone who does setups for a living will shake their heads at these pseudo techs.

 

Hehehe.

[RaVenCAD]

Well, if you don't know how to wind a string properly, then yes, you'll get problems. Simply learning how to wind a string is not hard, and once you have it, whatever type of tuner you use gets taken out of the equation because the string is locked by itself. Are you suggesting that a Strat with regular tuners can't keep tune? That is missinformation that you are spreading. Come on man, use your "logic."

 

People have been using your suggested method for decades.. Yet, for some strange reason, the idea that Strat trems can't hold tune has also been around for decades. I'm thinkin there's a linkin in there somewhere. I'm a big fan of progress, so I'll stick with my locking tuners. If I can install my strings wihtout having to use some strange fisherman's knot that requires sharp hangers to be left on the guitar, do it in a fraction of the time and still have the same rock solid tuning, I'd call that an improvement. If you like tying your strings on, then by all means do it. I'm just not a fan.

[Floyd Rosenbomb]

People have been using your suggested method for decades.. Yet, for some strange reason, the idea that Strat trems can't hold tune has also been around for decades. I'm thinkin there's a linkin in there somewhere. I'm a big fan of progress, so I'll stick with my locking tuners. If I can install my strings wihtout having to use some strange fisherman's knot that requires sharp hangers to be left on the guitar, do it in a fraction of the time and still have the same rock solid tuning, I'd call that an improvement. If you like tying your strings on, then by all means do it. I'm just not a fan.

Opted for velcro shoelaces too a assume.

 

And the irony is that the ops guitar has locking tuners.

Have a good one!

[RaVenCAD]

Opted for velcro shoelaces too a assume. And the irony is that the ops guitar has locking tuners. Have a good one!

 

So clearly his tuners or his string installation method are not at fault, assuming he doesn't use velcro or too many winds on those locking tuners..

[scuzzo]

Deck the tremolo, no float..... use the one 1 over technique on the strings... never just wrap the string around the post a bunch of times...

 

im hell on bending strings... and ever since using the string lock tech never had an issue.. perhhaps it fall off a few cents every couple of days or so...

 

locking keys is cool i guess... but its not necessary if you just do the string lock method..

it will make tuning much less an effort... too many wraps just creates a bad foundation for the string to rest..

 

mho..

[mikesr1963]

I've been winding my strings like that from day one, only I cut them as close to the post as possible. I play lots of blues bends and show off like Buddy Guy and just never have a tuning issue. That's also how Dan Erlewine recommends winding your strings.

I bend the string so that it stays put while i apply tension - and yes, after that i just clip it and, as you corrrectly have observed, the ends are painfully sharp. But when do you actually have to touch that side of the head anyway??? And btw, all my guitars (9 electrics + 1 accoustic) are strung that way (well, ok - except the Steinberger) - and have been for the past 10 - 15 years - including two strats with vintage style trems. Tuning problems on the strats come from bad (mexican deep slotted) nuts and the old fashioned string trees... And as i have written before - tuning on my guitars is rock solid, and i have never had a string come off the tuners.

 

[LesPaulFetish]

^ Same, except I usually put more wraps.

[cephus]

 

Also, some guitarists think they can get away without a string cutter, and those guitarists should all be beaten a few times.

 

 

I know this guy Randy Stockwell, who is a guitar builder and invented the moon banjo bridge. He gave me another tip that I religiously adhere to. He said that if you just cut a wound string sometimes the winding can become unseated from the inner wrap. He said that you need to put a 90-degree bend in the string before you cut it. If you remember, there used to be a diagram on SIT strings' pack that said the same thing.

 

He told me that when i was complaining about dean markley strings. I told him every once in a while it seemed like I got a dead one. He said that was from the winding becoming unseated.

 

When I do the wound strings with vintage tuners, I put a bend in it about 3/8 from where I want to cut it. Then I cut it and put the bent dogleg down into the tuner post. I cut the string so that it would just reach the post of the second tuner from the one I am wrapping on. So I cut the low E string so that it just reaches the D post.

[cephus]

 

And by the way, pencil graphite works identically any other graphite out there, what reason could you possibly have for discouraging it's use, other then ignorance?

 

 

Pencil lead has clay in it. I use real graphite powder. My dad had it in his garage. I have no idea where he got it.