Members photon9 Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 So not everyone can buy them! I disagree that LPs are a great design. They look nice but functionally they are one of the least well-designed guitars out there. They're heavy, uncomfortable, and have horrible upper-fret access. SGs, Strats and even the unassuming Tele, among hundreds of other guitar designs, kill LPs in the functionality department. But they look nice and lots of famous people have played them so guitarists everywhere will want one and pay pretty much whatever Gibson asks for them. If I was going to be spending that kind of coin I would get myself a nice 335, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DavidMgT Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 People who don't buy Gibson Les Pauls are so touchy. indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rock-lobster Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 I have played G&L Legacy guitars for years, and regularly have people say "why doncha play a real strat". I gave up a long time ago explaining to them that it (was) Leo's company, and they are IMO better instruments than Fender's top of the line Custom shop models. Yep. I like to call that kind of stuff "stupidity" and most guitarists are full of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aenemated Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 this is surely a topic that requires further discussion. i recommend creating as many additional threads as necessary to finally get to the bottom of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WhatDoIKnow Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 I wonder how much time it takes to build a guitar from start to finish in a factory? I wonder how much longer it takes to build a Standard versus a Studio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 GCDEF you have been on this board for a while and given that I don't want to be a prick. First, I don't need a basic economics lesson, I work in finance, and follow emerging markets. Second, the only thing everyone keeps addressing is that Gibson is charging for the name. Yes, we all know there is a certain level of up-charge for the name. I'm not arguing that, but do you (or anyone else for that matter) think that a major part of the higher price tag on a Gibson might have something to do with U.S. wages versus Korean wages? If you don't think that American vs. Korean wages or production costs in America vs production costs in Korea are a major factor in Gibson pricing then please tell everyone on this forum that you do not believe that to be the case.You do know that Korea is a high-income developed country, right? Yeah, their minimum wage is to the tune of $4 but can you prove that Korean guitar manufacturers are only bringing in minimum wage workers? (Can you prove that all American manufacturers use documented labor?) Korean guitars are cheap because their names are unsexy and because they're largely unoriginal copies or near-copies of other better known guitars. That's the main reason why they're cheap. Korean products from brands that have good established names, like Samsungs, fetch good prices all over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AlexMC Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Why are USA New Balance sneakers more expensive than those that are Chinese made? More sole... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Korean products from brands that have good established names, like Samsungs, fetch good prices all over the world. The Samsung P90s in my Peerless Casino are friggin' awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Can you please tell me which AMERICAN MADE Les Paul copy, with all of the bells and whistles of an Agile 3000/Raven West LP, I can go buy right now for the same price new? First, Copying a les paul without a liscence is illegal. Any US company marketing a copy in the US illegally would be hit with a lawsuit.Second, anyone selling of a copy of the real deal can be hit up for selling a counterfit. Places like EBay pull adds all day long so they wont be hit for selling counterfit goods. Next, theres plenty of designs simular to a Paul but there has to be enough variations to the design to make them legal. Those variances do change the tone of the instrument so they arent les paul "copies". they are simply a simular looking guitar with a simular tone. The only way to have a copy is to use the same materials same hardware, same design, same dimensions, same electronics etc. If you're looking for a les paul like guitar at a good price, there are buttloads of them, many are being made by private luthiers. If you're looking for an exact copy, I wont help you. Since I'm a builder, I see counterfitting as being no better than someone stealing someones music and making money off it. I realize I may be a minority here with all the entitlement types who hang on sites like this, but I work for manufacturers and design copy is serious business on a corporate level. You cant get good jobs in the business if you're an advocate of copying a companies designs. Companies dont hesitate prosicuting individuals to the highest extent of the law if you are involved in copying designs. Even when you leave you sign a non compete clause. Even Leo Fender had to fundMusic Man through a Friend before his non compete agreement ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bdubbs Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 I don't know how you guys see it but I don't flip guitars so buying an expensive guitar that will last a long time doesn't really phase me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicscotty Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 So not everyone can buy them! I disagree that LPs are a great design. They look nice but functionally they are one of the least well-designed guitars out there. They're heavy, uncomfortable, and have horrible upper-fret access. SGs, Strats and even the unassuming Tele, among hundreds of other guitar designs, kill LPs in the functionality department. But they look nice and lots of famous people have played them so guitarists everywhere will want one and pay pretty much whatever Gibson asks for them.If I was going to be spending that kind of coin I would get myself a nice 335, but that's just me. I'm comfortable with the weight of my LP, and because I've played it for several years I know how to go about accessing the upper frets on the odd occasion I want or need to. A 335 is an entirely different beast to a Les Paul, so the comparison is an odd one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 67mike Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 WOW, I did not know Howard Stern jammed with Les???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JRicoC Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 this is surely a topic that requires further discussion. i recommend creating as many additional threads as necessary to finally get to the bottom of this. Winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 67mike Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 I asked this question in the other Gibson bashing thread. It's an honest question with no hostility intended. I will admit that I am not familiar with all of the American guitar manufacturers outside of the big names like Fender, Gibson, PRS, or the more popular speciality makers like Suhr and Tom Anderson. Hell, I just looked into Heritage guitars from Kalamazoo, MI for the first time ever this morning. So my question is this, which AMERICAN guitar manufacturer produces a MADE IN AMERICA Les Paul copy with all of the added bells and whistles you get in an Agile/Raven/etc. for the same price as Agile/Raven/etc.? Who makes the highly decorated Les Paul copy in AMERICA for $600 or less? Is the added price increase in a Gibson mostly milking the name or does the $3.25 Korean minimum wage have anything to do with it? How much more does an American company (forget about guitar making at this point) have to pay in medical benefits, retirement benefits administration, vacation time, etc. than a Korean company. Some of you might label me a Gibson fanboy, even though I don't own a Gibson, but I'm willing to admit there is some up charge for the name "Gibson." However, I'm not about to crucify a company because they simply can't manufacture and produce at the same cost as a country in Asia. So, again, if someone can point out an AMERICAN MADE Les Paul copy with all of the added bells and whistles of an Agile 3000 or Raven West LP I would greatly appreciate it. I sure as hell would love to buy a really nice American made guitar with all of the upgrades for $600 brand new? Ain't gonna get any made in USA guitar for $600 new, that I can think of.....well unless you stack some significant discounts. I think $1000.00 seems to be the entry point into USA made guitars. Why? Well, most manufacturer's in US and Canada....pay their employees more than $0.25 per hour. Secondly, most of these manufacturers use raw material that is superior and thus, more costly, they also use hardware that is made in USA/CAnada which again is higher quality and cost more to produce. Lastly..they have an established Marketing program which has built up their brand over the years, that adds to the cost as well. I will let you in on a pretty well kept secret: you can buy a Heritage guitar (made in Kalamazoo, Mich) used for about $1000........now, that is the biggest bargin in the guitar world in my humble opinion.....as I and many other owners would put the quality of the Heritage equal to Gibson Custom Shop stuff costing $5000 plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WhatDoIKnow Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 In 1959 a Gibson Les Paul Standard cost $265 - Source In 1959 the average US income was $3856 (rounded to nearest dollar) In 2010 the average US income was $41647 (rounded to nearest dollar) Source for both numbers. If my math is correct the cost of a Gibson Les Paul Standard in 2010 should be $2864. I know this is a simplification because of the difference in cost of living between 1959 and 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SGRocker30 Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 The Gibson Les Paul is one of guitars that can rightly be referred to as an 'industry standard' guitar.It's one of the few models that is widely used by professional artists (past and present).Amateur player aspire to either become a pro artist or simply want to play the same type of guitar as their idols. Other amateur player simply recognise that the Gibson LP is a great guitar and want to buy one.People rightly point out that a good quality copy of a Gibson Les Paul can be found from other non US companies and the ironic thing is that these companies are indirectly paying homage to the Gibson Les Paul and in doing so maintaining its high profile.The net result is that there is a demand for the product and people are willing to pay the asking price for the product.The urban myth about poor Gibson build quality gets rolled out by those who seem to have a general dislike for Gibson, but I prefer to make my own decision and I've yet to see any poor quality Gibson LP's hanging on the wall of my local store. Two words for you, Mr Urban Myth. "Orange" and "peel". Last time I checked, the finish on a guitar is a factor in build quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 A 335 is an entirely different beast to a Les Paul, so the comparison is an odd one.I was only comparing relative price. If I had 3K in my pocket to buy either an LP or a 335 I would take a 335. Pretty simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigTimeFun Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Not any more you can't. Heritage and Gibson prices are about the same now. That's been my experience, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SGRocker30 Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 I was only comparing relative price. If I had 3K in my pocket to buy either an LP or a 335 I would take a 335. Pretty simple really. I'd take the one that plays and sounds better, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SGRocker30 Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Of course, that means I'm likely going with the 335 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Of course, that means I'm likely going with the 335 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 67mike Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 That's been my experience, too.Nope...Heritage is WAAAY cheaper.How can that be?Well compare Heritage to Gibson Custom Shop....that is more apples to apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GCDEF Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 That's been my experience, too. I checked completed ebay auctions and deleted my post. $1000 or less seems to be the going rate for used H-150s. New prices are about the same though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BigTimeFun Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've been keeping an eye on the used Heritages for a few months off and on and haven't seen any come up for sale anywhere near 1k Not to say it doesn't happen, but I haven't seen it. The ones that went for 1k look like H140's to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rock-lobster Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 The Gibson Les Paul is one of guitars that can rightly be referred to as an 'industry standard' guitar.It's one of the few models that is widely used by professional artists (past and present).Amateur player aspire to either become a pro artist or simply want to play the same type of guitar as their idols. Other amateur player simply recognise that the Gibson LP is a great guitar and want to buy one.People rightly point out that a good quality copy of a Gibson Les Paul can be found from other non US companies and the ironic thing is that these companies are indirectly paying homage to the Gibson Les Paul and in doing so maintaining its high profile.The net result is that there is a demand for the product and people are willing to pay the asking price for the product.The urban myth about poor Gibson build quality gets rolled out by those who seem to have a general dislike for Gibson, but I prefer to make my own decision and I've yet to see any poor quality Gibson LP's hanging on the wall of my local store. Okay, I gotta chime in with that one. I agree with the first three quarters of what you're saying. Les Pauls are probably the most used guitar by famous players (more so than the strat I'd say), but I wouldn't call gibson's quality an "urban myth." There are a ton of duds by Gibson out there right now. I don't disagree that a well put together LP, by Gibson, will be a fantastic guitar and I've played a few of them but I've owned a few and played a hell of a lot of guitars with any combination of nasty fretwork, bad cut nuts (a TOM bridge guitar should stay in tune, period), and occasionally electronic problems. How is that an urban myth? I know every guitar maker makes some lemons but I'm talking about ratio here. Gibson has more duds per capita IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.