Why do you guys HATE DJs so much???

[TimmyP]

In a band, the DJ:

 

Makes noises that detract from my enjoyment of the performance.

 

Displaces a musician who might add to my enjoyment of the performance.

 

Gives the mixperson a distorted signal, which, after being turned down to a proper level, creeps up over the course of the night to the same distorted level.

 

 

 

In a club, the DJ:

 

Plays a bunch of crap I don't like, even if the club has live bands who play tunes I do like.

 

Displaces musicians who might add to my enjoyment of my evening out.

 

Plays the system too loud, with too much treble, and often distorted to boot.

[Manipulate]

 

Originally posted by MalusAranea Everyone is nobody to someone. To me, the internet is a sea of nobodys. Anonymity is one of the greatest privileges of the internet. It is also an aspect which is contrived with the egos of reality existing outside of the internet. To me a part of being a DJ is to respect the artist and the craft. I can show you alot of DJ's who will agree with me in this. The act of Collecting records will inherintly reveal alot about music as a whole. It's existence, and it's necessity. Truly knowing alot about many different forms of music will expand your acceptance and tastes of music. It also reflects how short lived the careers are of most musicians. To me a part of being a Guitarist is having alot of Ego. It is something most guitarist feel once they feel theyre ability level is above someone elses. Just like an Athlete, or dancer. Why guitarists are so disrespectful towards other musicians, is because of ego. A guitarist feels they're more worthy of respect then a keyboard player, because keyboards are probably an easier to understand instrument. The fact that they're not only understanding but also CREATING and expanding the musical landscape. As long as they stay ignorant to the process of expressing themselves with other instruments. This ignorance gives guitarists power, and respect. So, it is easy to understand why modern guitar driven music doesn't expand. It is easy to understand why DJ's are becoming more and more popular. It is easy to understand why a DJ will respect a guitar player, but a Guitar player will never respect a DJ. The guitarist will only feel that the DJ will never CREATE, but can only re-create. - spidey

 

 

Well put.

[Manipulate]

 

Originally posted by TimmyP In a band, the DJ: Makes noises that detract from my enjoyment of the performance. Displaces a musician who might add to my enjoyment of the performance. Gives the mixperson a distorted signal, which, after being turned down to a proper level, creeps up over the course of the night to the same distorted level. In a club, the DJ: Plays a bunch of crap I don't like, even if the club has live bands who play tunes I do like. Displaces musicians who might add to my enjoyment of my evening out. Plays the system too loud, with too much treble, and often distorted to boot.

 

 

LOL! This is so often the case, but not ALWAYS the case. Its the problem with all stereotypes. There is a grain of truth, but if you base your entire belief system upon them you just end up with prejudice that prevents you from seeing the truth.

[angura80s]

any form of art, including "sonic art" (ie. what musicans AND djs BOTH do) shouldnt be categorized so rigidly. the musicians world is the oldest of them all, the dj world is a recent phenomenon, but they are both totally interconnected. sure they have different methods and approaches to make their art because they use different "main" technologies, but its still a creative process in both cases. musicians and djs both need timing and both require a "good ear", if you know what i mean, to make their art. thats what they have in common. they are both artistic process of using sounds to create a work of art. ie. "songs" (in musicians language) or "(re)mixes" (in djs language)

 

i think there is no need for such a hard line dividing djs and musicians. arent they like two sides of the same coin? djs need the musicians to provide music for djs to manipulate live. and musicians need people like djs who are out to get lots of music (cds, records) made by the musicians. its a symbiosis.

 

personally i do both musician AND dj. there are also people that make music from scratch (musician), record it and then manipulate it live (djing).

 

that said, my problems with each side: [DJing] i have a problem with how much the dj world has become so over commericalized and overpriced since the 90s. wow! the prices are increadible for a turntable and mixer these days. i miss the more accessible djing of the 80s. now the egos have become as bloated as the ridiculous prices. isnt djing supposed to be the accessible art for the masses? everyone, even poor people own records, right? thats how it originally started. it was a way of sonic art for people with little money. to enjoy and have a party together. now its become somewhat elitist and pretensious. if it isnt already. [Musicians] speaking of elitist. you also find a similar pecking order in the musicians world. and since the musicians world is older and more established than the dj world, so to are the hierarchy more deep. the "pros" in their world of high elitist prices and exclusive vintage gear, high tech gear, or whatever. and then the budget "have nots" with their lesser cheap throwaway "newbie" equipment.

 

art might be about creative expression, but somehow the hierarchys of "higher class" and "lower class" always sneaks in and brings in pecking order, with all its egos, down on the rosy artistic sonic world of musicians AND djs.

 

no need for too hard divisions IMHO. making music/mixes/songs or whatever is supposed to be about enjoying the expression through sounds, whether the sounds is made from a acoustic/electric guitar, analog/digital/VA/hybrid/whatever synthesizer, groovebox, sampler, cd player, turntable, blah blah blah. or whether its done in real time, patterns, in a studio over 3 weeks, or live on a stage in 3 seconds, its all the same creative process.

[zincfingerr]

^ I totally agree with you. And with MaleusAranea above.

 

Putting 'music' and 'art' into boxes is a pretty naive and dangerous (threatening musical evolution) thing to do. It's even more amazing to see it done by musicians themselves!

 

As a DJ and a guitarist I feel my opinion is worth consideration, and I'd say that both DJs and guitarists must put the practice, research, and time into their craft, and if they've also got the talent and ear, should be considered musicians.

 

I find it funny that all the guitarists trashing DJs say that a DJ presses the play button on one song, then the next song. At it's worst, yes, this is a DJ. But then let's pull out a guitarist at its worst; no use comparing Hendrix to DJ 16-Year-Old-Who-Just-Wants-Girls.

 

I'm sure we've all heard enough people with guitars in their hands who could hardly be called musicians: could never write a song of their own, only know power chords and the minor pentatonic scale (which despite it's imposing name, DJs, can be learned in a week by someone who has never touched a guitar), and whose timing is so off that it's hard to even listen because all you can think about is whether he'll hit the chord before the next beat or after it.

 

TimmyP, your list of 'things the DJ does' could just as easily (if not more appropriately) be applied to guitarists. I've never heard an instrument so consistently clipping, overcompressed, or painful in the treble range than the electric guitar live. And I dont think there exists any breed of musician who so often detracts from a live performance by raising their levels and taking the spotlight from the rest of the band as the guitarist. I'm not saying all do, not at all - but not all DJs are as irresponsible with their levels as you'd like to think.

 

I think we must also keep in mind that DJing as an art is quite in it's infancy, and we've already seen it grow and spread to creative realms that wouldn't have even been envisioned 10, 15, 20 years ago. And as we add to that list of pioneers I think soon enough it will be impossible for even a frustrated guitarist to say that a DJ isn't a musician and artist. If people like them had their way, we wouldn't be listening to jazz, blues, and even rock and roll, which were all discounted as degenerate non-art until they were honed and finally accepted as truly necessary forms of musical expression.

[Anesthesia]

i dont hate DJ's but i cant understand how they keep referencing to our strings as 'gay'. respect is a two way street guys

 

alo, on another note, pilk IS and asshole, but he is a {censored}en smoken guitar player, thats for sure

[WoodyInvincible]

[MojoFilter]

I do not know if I consider DJ's automatically to be "musicians", in the same way that a person who plays an organic instrument to automatically be a "musician". Neither DJ's or those who play instruments are granted that title automatically. There are terrible DJ's out there. There are also terrible guitarists/bassists/drummers/bands out there.

 

A "musician" is someone who creates art through music, in my book, no matter what their instrument is.

 

I do consider some DJ's to be "composers" - which is as honorable a title as there is in music.

 

Let me take this one step further:

 

If you are a guitarist in a 3 piece rock band, you are not a composer. You are a guitar player, and at it's best, you are a musician, if you have skill at your craft. And, no matter which way you look at it, to compose takes musicial talent...all the same fundamental elements apply: a sense of rhythm, contrast, texture, harmony, melody and dissonance. Creativity.

 

Regardless of what any guitarist thinks, playing a guitar does not make you a "musician"...it makes you a guitar player. Period. This statement will piss off a lot of middle-aged white guys who have played guitar in a bar band on Sunday nights, and have creative aspirations, but never developed them fully. Some of these guys need to tell themselves something to justify their existence. Age can make some people take themselves a little too seriously.

 

To me, a guitarist slagging a DJ is exactly in the same league as a classical violinist looking down their nose at a rock guitarist by the virtue of the TYPE of music that they perform.

 

Listen to DJ Shadow if you don't think that being a DJ can produce art. Most of the complexity is completely lost on me...I can't appreciate the difficulty, creativity, and knowledge of obscure music that it took to put his stuff together the same way that another DJ can...but I know that I enjoy it when I listen to it, because it is good MUSIC to me. I'll take DJ Shadow over listening to nu-metal bull{censored} any day of the week.

 

I have been a guitarist for over 25 years, and rarely go to clubs where DJ's work at all...I don't listen to a great deal of DJ's. In my musical circles, almost no one listens to DJ's. But-I can appreciate the effort, the talent, and the creative spark that some DJ's bring to the table.

 

And...one last word to those who claim that DJ's killed rock music in clubs, and bitch about not being able to get a crowd because everyone is going to clubs where DJ's play. First of all, it's not true...rock music still has a pulse. However, today, the average 22 year-old girl has a choice...she can listen to an inept bar band who is hacking their way through material (which, in my opinion, the great majority of bar bands do), or they can go someplace where they can DANCE. And...where the women go, the men go, too.

 

Wanna see a resurgence in rock music in clubs? Write music that the average girl can actually dance to. Make your show interesting to be at...fun and exciting, edgy and daring. The general fact is that what's happening in mainstream rock right now is boring and uninventive compared to the people that are pushing the envelope in the DJ community.

 

Remember...this is coming from a GUITARIST, whose favorite band is Led Zeppelin. I'm not going to blame DJ's for "killing rock music"...if rock music is on the wane, we have nobody to blame but the "musicians" in rock music today. Nope, I'm not going to blame DJ's at all...I applaud them for doing something that rock is generally not doing today: keeping music exciting.

[jimackmusic]

I was reading this thread for entertainment value and was shocked. You DJ's are a joke. To think that you bring anything musical to the table is dilusional. I had to laugh at the guy that sent the pictures of a bunch of turntables and mixers as though he was some sort of hi-tech "musician". Many DJ's are wanna be's. Didn't have the talent or the patience to actually learn an instrument so you did what you did best, played a CD. : )

The real story is this, and though I didn't agree with most of what he said, I believe Mojofilter summed it up best:

"However, today, the average 22 year-old girl has a choice...she can listen to an inept bar band who is hacking their way through material (which, in my opinion, the great majority of bar bands do), or they can go someplace where they can DANCE. And...where the women go, the men go, too."

That is the bottom line. Let's not use smoke and mirrors to think DJ's have talent. Let's tell it like it is. You guys spin records, don't make it sound like some sort of creative art. Believe me, behind the scenes, musicians, for the most part, are laughing at you guys because of your arrogance. If you didn't have musicians, the only thing DJ's would be "scratching" is themselves.

[Manipulate]

 

Originally posted by jimackmusic I was reading this thread for entertainment value and was shocked. You DJ's are a joke. To think that you bring anything musical to the table is dilusional. I had to laugh at the guy that sent the pictures of a bunch of turntables and mixers as though he was some sort of hi-tech "musician". Many DJ's are wanna be's. Didn't have the talent or the patience to actually learn an instrument so you did what you did best, played a CD. : ) The real story is this, and though I didn't agree with most of what he said, I believe Mojofilter summed it up best: "However, today, the average 22 year-old girl has a choice...she can listen to an inept bar band who is hacking their way through material (which, in my opinion, the great majority of bar bands do), or they can go someplace where they can DANCE. And...where the women go, the men go, too." That is the bottom line. Let's not use smoke and mirrors to think DJ's have talent. Let's tell it like it is. You guys spin records, don't make it sound like some sort of creative art. Believe me, behind the scenes, musicians, for the most part, are laughing at you guys because of your arrogance. If you didn't have musicians, the only thing DJ's would be "scratching" is themselves.

 

 

Okay, show & prove time.

 

In order to be able to discuss this topic you need to have at least some base knowledge about the topic you're discussing.

 

Why don't you explain to us the differences between a club DJ, a sample producer/composer, and a turntablist? Explain what you mean by "spinning records" and explain what you mean by "scratching" and explain how those those things are different.

 

Cause right now you're mixing it all together and its reminding me of when rednecks go "all these {censored}in' Mexicans are taking my jobs" when in reality it was a US citizen of Puerto Rican (not mexican) decent who took his job. In other words, you sound ingnorant as {censored} about this topic.

 

Anyway, tell me what you know about "DJing" as you call it and then I'll son the {censored} out you properly.

 

Step

[jimackmusic]

I know the difference between all the terms you used. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what's going on. A musician knows what a sample producer/composer is, a club DJ, a turntablist are. My son is a DJ. We've had this conversation before. He is also a kick ass bass player. (musician) He knows exactly where I'm coming from.

Here is where the problem lies. I will give you a little history. In the 80's it was fashionable to cut school programs such as music, and the arts when a millage wasn't passed. This being the trend at the time caused many, not all, but many to not get a well rounded musical education. So, many who love music don't have the foundation of understanding how to read music or music theory. I can appreciate your love for music, but don't think for a second that owning a home entertainment center full of gear makes you a musician. You're not.

I will give you this. The DJ's are making the money. The customer has no idea what is going on. If it's about who makes the most money, more than likely, per man, you'll walk away with more.

As Pilk said in his frustration, (the poor guy),"The bottom line is, and I cant say this too often , you don't know anything about music, nothing. You do nothing. You are arrogant enough to not only think of yourself as an equal but superior to people who can actually do something and love music enough to learn to play it.(musicians) "

Unless you play an instrument, you will never understand. By the way, thanks for the thread. I have been holding back for years and it feels good to vent.

[Manipulate]

 

Originally posted by jimackmusic I know the difference between all the terms you used. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what's going on. A musician knows what a sample producer/composer is, a club DJ, a turntablist are. My son is a DJ. We've had this conversation before. He is also a kick ass bass player. (musician) He knows exactly where I'm coming from. Here is where the problem lies. I will give you a little history. In the 80's it was fashionable to cut school programs such as music, and the arts when a millage wasn't passed. This being the trend at the time caused many, not all, but many to not get a well rounded musical education. So, many who love music don't have the foundation of understanding how to read music or music theory. I can appreciate your love for music, but don't think for a second that owning a home entertainment center full of gear makes you a musician. You're not. I will give you this. The DJ's are making the money. The customer has no idea what is going on. If it's about who makes the most money, more than likely, per man, you'll walk away with more. As Pilk said in his frustration, (the poor guy),"The bottom line is, and I cant say this too often , you don't know anything about music, nothing. You do nothing. You are arrogant enough to not only think of yourself as an equal but superior to people who can actually do something and love music enough to learn to play it.(musicians) " Unless you play an instrument, you will never understand. By the way, thanks for the thread. I have been holding back for years and it feels good to vent.

 

 

Good, since you know the difference between a Club DJ, a producer and a tablist why don't you define those terms as you know them so we can get into a constructive discussion as to why you are perfectly correct in some ways and dead wrong in other ways.

 

Or is it that you have a negative stereotype you want to uphold, and actually getting down to reality and specifics might show that you're a biggot?

 

The question being, do you want to get your {censored} right and then form an opinion or do you want to continue to wallow in ignorance so that you can continue to stereotype us?

[jimackmusic]

Did you ever think it was your need to be accepted and respected by the world as a musician, (which you are not), that irks you. You didn't learn to play an instrument, because maybe you are wallowing in ignorance and you can't. It's too difficult. Admit it. You're a "wanna be" and that's ok. You probably play a mean air guitar. I'll even give you another compliment; You're an "entertainer". That works with me and other musicians.

Sorry bud, you're not in the musician category though, until you sit down, toil and sweat, and learn an instrument. It's not easy. It requires perseverance, intelligence, and determination. You will not be in the category of Beethovan and Bach, maybe "Wolfman Jack" or Howard Stern, something along those lines. But you're not a member of the club. Sorry!

[jimackmusic]

Also, it would be wise not to use words like "biggot" when trying to convince something so obvious to the most casual observer. It makes you look silly. A DJ is no more a musician than a bank teller a stockbroker or a boyscout a Marine. : )

[Manipulate]

 

Originally posted by jimackmusic Did you ever think it was your need to be accepted and respected by the world as a musician, (which you are not), that irks you. You didn't learn to play an instrument, because maybe you are wallowing in ignorance and you can't. It's too difficult. Admit it. You're a "wanna be" and that's ok. You probably play a mean air guitar. I'll even give you another compliment; You're an "entertainer". That works with me and other musicians. Sorry bud, you're not in the musician category though, until you sit down, toil and sweat, and learn an instrument. It's not easy. It requires perseverance, intelligence, and determination. You will not be in the category of Beethovan and Bach, maybe "Wolfman Jack" or Howard Stern, something along those lines. But you're not a member of the club. Sorry!

 

 

First of all, you're assuming I don't play an "instrument" as you would define it. I play the drums. Or is that not an instrument either? Again, you're just making assumptions about me and what I do based on your incorrect stereotype.

 

More importantly, you're ducking ducking the substantive debate. If you're right and scratching is not difficult, takes no perserverance, intellegence or determination, and doesn't take any toil and sweat to learn, then I'd think you'd be ready to get down to specifics so you can prove your point. Instead, you want to change the subject to whether or not I play any real "instruments" (a term you obviously think you have the right to define).

 

You're afraid to step and actually debate the issue in any amount of depth because you're talking out of your asshole. You don't have any base knowledge from which to formulate an opinion, you just have an unsubstantiated stereotype that you blindly adhere to. Maybe if you plug your ears and hum you won't be able to hear the reasons counter to your stereotype?

 

If there is any substance behind your opinion then lets get down to the substance.

 

You don't want to step though do you?

[jimackmusic]

Sometimes, and I'm not saying this is really that important of a subject, but sometimes, when someone is trying to drag you into a debate, whether you know the subject inside and out doesn't matter. It is best to look on the other side and use your experiences to make your decisions. You can be political and keep the peace, which many people do. Then sometimes, it's best to stick to your conviction, don't waver. Don't try to tell me the sky is green. It's not.

 

I studied my instrument in college from the masters when I was young. Played jury's in front of an auditorium full of professors. They critiqued every hand movement and nuance of my performance. I am a professional musician. There is a degree of pride in that statement. This is what I do for a living. I don't take it lightly.

 

Are DJ's talented? Some are. Are they entertaining? Almost always get a laugh from me. Are DJ's musicians? Nope

 

Since you play the drums, you have gained more respect from me. So,you are a member of the club?! I could tell from some of your posts that you are a deep thinker and really enjoy the debate.

[BigDolla]

Why do people all the people who hate DJs always assume DJs are claiming to be musicians. Many Djs also play instruments but most consider themselves producers. DJ are DJs. I don't see any DJs claiming otherwise. DJs don't complain that musicians suck at mixing or can't get a dance floor freaking out.

 

Where I am from (west coast) there is some cool ass and innovative {censored} happening fusing live musicians, vocalists and DJs. We are way past the DJ vs live band bull{censored} conversation. DJing is just one of many music making/playing/production skill sets. Not accepting DJing as a skill is like saying producers have no skills either. If you can't find any musicianship or creativity in what DJs are doing in the music world, you are short sighted and blinded by your ignorance of music.

 

And why is is always some old fuddy duddy purist fart complaining about DJs. And why are they always so self righteous and complain so much on message boards. Go get something better to do. Go play some music you pricks, maybe one day it will be good enough for a DJ to play or even remix your music someday. If you don't like the music, then shut the fck up so others who are more open minded enjoy what they are hearing.

[OldMateGus]

DJs = leeches. Ruiners of great music. Destroyers of the live scene. The level of skill required to drop in some beats @ X bpm does not even remotely compare to the difficulties of learning jazz, technical styles such as metal, scales, modes, circle of fifths, sweep picking etc etc (this list could go forever).

 

I personally would like to see all DJs crushed into a little, bloody cube and shot into space. DJs, don't even try to tell me 'I don't know what I'm talking about' - I've seen enough of your sweaty MDMA riddled carcasses mutilating beats at 4:30 in the morning to know that any chimp can be a DJ. I've even on a number of occasions tryed it myself. Guess what - when I tried matching beats - I could do it..... woooo big achievment. I should get a gold star.

 

Djs, if you are so musically talented then buy a guitar, violin or piano and play me a concerto, even better, just play me a song! In the past, most people who nowadays become djs would have played the Tambourine, Kazoo or Wobble board.

 

thirty bucks is seriously too much money to have to pay to see a man who can’t even play an instrument.

 

May the fleas of 1000 camels infect your armpits, DJs. (FleaJays)

 

[gruvjack]

Someone didn't get booked

 

V.

[hugbot]

 

Why do people all the people who hate DJs always assume DJs are claiming to be musicians. Many Djs also play instruments but most consider themselves producers. DJ are DJs. I don't see any DJs claiming otherwise. DJs don't complain that musicians suck at mixing or can't get a dance floor freaking out. Where I am from (west coast) there is some cool ass and innovative {censored} happening fusing live musicians, vocalists and DJs. We are way past the DJ vs live band bull{censored} conversation. DJing is just one of many music making/playing/production skill sets. Not accepting DJing as a skill is like saying producers have no skills either. If you can't find any musicianship or creativity in what DJs are doing in the music world, you are short sighted and blinded by your ignorance of music. And why is is always some old fuddy duddy purist fart complaining about DJs. And why are they always so self righteous and complain so much on message boards. Go get something better to do. Go play some music you pricks, maybe one day it will be good enough for a DJ to play or even remix your music someday. If you don't like the music, then shut the fck up so others who are more open minded enjoy what they are hearing.

 

 

Truth, DJ's are Dj's ,musicians are musicians, they both work with music but they're not claiming to be the same thing.

 

A musician being pissed at DJ's is like a comedian being pissed that a magician is stealing his gigs. Just because you work in the same field (in this example, stage shows) doesent mean what you do is immediately comparable.

[Anderton]

I don't know why this thread keeps re-surfacing, but as a musician who doubles on keyboard and guitar and has done extensive session work, I have to say that I've seen really good DJs and they make my jaw drop. Anyone who can keep a crowd engaged for 2+ hours and more, with zero mistakes and no train wreck transitions, while constantly monitoring the audience "vibe" and choose the right music at the right time with the right transitions is a hellishly difficult task to pull off. Sure, there are DJs who aren't very good, but there are plenty of musicians who aren't, either.

 

I think of DJs more like conductors or arrangers, because the skill set is similar. I used to feel the same way about DJs not being "real" musicians - until I saw some who were really good. It was an incredibly exciting musical experience and from that day on, I "got" it.

 

I also have to add that good DJs tend to be open-minded. I've ended up jamming with quite a few of them on guitar, and it's a very cool experience. I have a profound respect for DJs who are at the top of their game.

[MUZIKMAN7]

All well and good, however being a DJ in itself is not the same thing as being a musician. Talk to a group of professional musicians and tell them your also a musician, what do you suppose the response would be? being a DJ is fine they have their spot in the entertainment business and I enjoy a good scratcher but your not a musician (Unless of course you play an instrument)IMO

[IuseSG]

As Henry Rollins said "Dj's are record player players, that use other peoples blood sweat and tears for their own profit."

[wchua24]

well.sometimes i love them sometimes i don't. it's crazy...

[3red]

i like the old djs like wolfman jack or dr demento but not so much the new ones from a tape