So what makes a good studio kit?

[Cross Eyed Mary]

http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgear/details.cfm?listId=104458431

 

Am i the only one thinking this is an awesome deal and a good idea? 100 bills can get two hoops for the bottoms.

[D Carroll]

http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgear/details.cfm?listId=104458431 Am i the only one thinking this is an awesome deal and a good idea? 100 bills can get two hoops for the bottoms.

 

 

Great {censored}ing deal. If it weren't a step sideways, I might jump.

[manoeuver]

that is a great deal. I'd just leave the flanged hoops on the bottom.

[turdadactyl]

I know what I hate and that's thin and "pokey" drums, especially on the snare. I want shells with a good weighty body, and I want a snare that is going to deliver a hearty and broad sounding "thwack" as opposed to what I can only describe as a "thip".

If you want a "thwack" you should think about a nice deep shell, maybe an 8" deep snare. I have an 8x14" birch snare on my Yamaha Recording Custom kit and it's HUGE in the mix.

Here's an example with that snare where I threw a little reverse delay on it for that "pre-thwack."

http://www.96exposures.com/80sDrumsGatedReversed.mp3

[wiresix]

For Recording kits something more important than the brand of drums you want, is the following: The drums have to be round - I know this sounds silly but sometimes shells go out of round.Check this out before your purchase.Measure across the shell from a few different pints to see if the diameter is the same all around. The bearing edges need to be straight and smooth- no dips or waves in the bearing edge.They need to be cut well.The drum head needs to be seated properly.You can take the hoops and head off and check the bearing edge for straightness on a smooth flat surface.Shine a light inside and see if you se any light escaping. The drums need to have no rattles or buzzes when played.Sometimes the springs in the lugs rattle and may need to be packed with felt or cotton balls. Check your tom mounts and floor tom legs to make sure they operate properly and don't buzz when the drum is struck. Don't take in more drums into the studio than you absolutely have to have.It is easier to record a smaller kit than a larger- if you don't need the 4 mounted toms and three floor toms then don't bring them into the studio.many recordings are done on a basic 4 piece kit and they sound great! Make sure you have good quality heads - check them out thoroughly - check that they have straight rims .Look ate the coating( if you want coated heads) Hold the rim by the edge and tap the head with your finger - you will want to pick out heads that have the most resonance regardless if they are 1 ply head or 2 ply.You can always muffle drums- you can't add resonance to a dead head. Hope this helps.

best advice so far! people get too caught up with brand, wood, plys... yes the type of wood and plys do make a difference, but the biggest difference is made with the drum being a well built drum, thats in round, with good hoops, and level bearing edges. your heads and edges will make or break a drum IMO...

when buying a set make sure you look at the bearing edges. if they have clear batters, thats easy, but good luck if they're coated... I CL drums a lot, and I learned my lesson on picking up drums where people have whacked their bearing edges with they're flailing arms. they sound like trash cans...

recently I just picked up a PDP LX full set with DW5000 hardware, a pork pie throne, and $1000 worth of A customs for $700. I'm very impressed with these drums I might add! the bearing edges are awesome, and the shells just sing. I'm very suprised. I was planning on keeping the cymbals and reselling the PDPs but I'm pretty sure I'll use them to play out now, and keep my custom drums w/ keller shells set up at home for practice, and recording

if you don't mind a little work... any idiot can build a drum. just order some keller shells (what DW uses), some hardware, and go to town. check out the ghostnote forums if you wanna go that rout

[FWAxeIbanez]

If you want a "thwack" you should think about a nice deep shell, maybe an 8" deep snare. I have an 8x14" birch snare on my Yamaha Recording Custom kit and it's HUGE in the mix. Here's an example with that snare where I threw a little reverse delay on it for that "pre-thwack." http://www.96exposures.com/80sDrumsGatedReversed.mp3

Oh man, that is a great snare sound... Sounds like you've squashed it pretty hard too, what compressor did you use?

I wish I was better at describing why I like it tho. I love the deep and dry sustain of the smack.

[twosticks]

I will agree that you need to pick the drums that will work best for on your own. We can and will help you as much as we can. Learning about acoustic drums, how they work, how to tune them, heads, bearing edges, hardware, cymbals is a subject within itself just like recording music is a subject within itself. You really need to read, listen, watch videos, google, go to the libary, spend an hour with a drum teacher, drum salesman, etc.

All the drums and brands mentioned by others are good. ALso good is the advice that any drum you choose needs to be in good working order. I am not picking on you. You just have a BIG question that you asked. IS no get this set and make sure on ABC and you'll be okay.

THe rock group Boston played a cheap ass set and beefed it up and tweaked it in the studio. The White Stripes may play on the best equipment but it may sounds off if you don't know how to tune.

Maybe if you use the advice from here, research on your own and as you find deals in your town or on line, you post them on here and run them by us and we can give our two cents. All I'm saying is would be the same as if you said you were new to driving cars and heard that Hondas were good, any thoughts??


Between picking a good drum set, with good heads, tuned right, that have the right mics with the right recording equipment, etc etc, is a LOT of varibles. Is not easily just one sure fire answer that works everytime. That is all I'm saying and welcome dude!

[Carpathian]

I spent $120 on my {censored}ty 5 piece came with cymbals, junked those smooth trash can lids and invested well over $600-$700 in my pies. With the right heads I've made this crapper sing. Not studio quality but they get the job done for me

[Super 8]

+1 If ya got 1500 spend 500 on the kit and 1000 on the cymbals. Maybe a used stage custom, with good heads, and some nice K's or A customs. Good heads an tuning can make cheaper drums sound great, but crap cymbals just sound like crap.

 

 

This is the best advice I've read.

 

Do not agonize too much for the drums. Honestly, they're all going to sound more or less the same. The sound will change based on size of the drum, the heads you use (plus dampening, which I don't recommend using if you can help it), and tuning (which is a must). Don't let the details of shell construction and bearing edges overwhelm you. We're talking about minute differences in tone.

I've recorded drums ranging from a few hundred to several thousand dollars, and the differences between drums of similar size/setup were far less than you'd imagine.

 

The cymbals on the other hand WILL make a BIG difference. That's where to put your money.

 

Remember the mic isn't the same as your ear. What sounds good to your ear will sound different through a mic.

[coyote-1]

That is the thing you should NOT skimp on.

I don't mind skimping on cymbals, because I'm sure my technique is bad and I'll be busting them up pretty quickly. Main priority is the snare and the rest of the shells.

Most any shell nowadays will, if equipped with good heads and tuned properly, sound good enough for any recordings you'll ever do in your home studio. A Yamaha Rydeen or Pearl Export kit will sound great if set up by someone who knows what they're doing.

But cymbals? Man, bad cymbals sound bad no matter what you do in the mix. I ain't sayin' to spend a fortune; you might get lucky and score some great cymbals at low cost. I'm just saying that IF it comes down to that choice, splurge on the cymbals first. And then learn how to hit 'em properly.

BTW, you do realize what you're asking here don't you?? Remember that the very first determinant of great sound is great playing. The worst players will sound terrible on the best gear; great players will make substandard gear sound great.

[FWAxeIbanez]

Yup, I getcha on technique. I'm gonna be learning and fixing all the bad habits I developed while hitting rubber pads, but mainly I want to practice miking it up while it's in front of someone who is primarily a drummer.

 

I've seen so many cracked and busted up cymbals that I initially didn't want to spend much on them until I made sure they'd last a while. I'm probably better off just buying good ones to begin with tho, because I'm not a particularly hard hitter anyway. Cheaper cymbals will probably crack before nicer ones anyway, right?

[boomboomdrums]

I've never broken a cymbal in 36 years of playing. If you take care of them, use proper technique, and don't beat the living crap out them, they should last the rest of your life.

[turdadactyl]

Oh man, that is a great snare sound... Sounds like you've squashed it pretty hard too, what compressor did you use? I wish I was better at describing why I like it tho. I love the deep and dry sustain of the smack.

 

 

Some people will cringe just because I use the words "gate" and "reverb" in the same sentence, but putting the two together can get you the nice balance between sustain and dry.

 

That sound is really built on two tracks of snare. Ok...ok, it's one track, but duplicated and messed with a whole bunch. The snare is recorded with just a single SM-57. That track is EQ'd and compressed and has a gate on it as well.

 

Next I duplicated the snare track, flipped it backwards, put a long reverb on it and printed that. Then I flipped it back the right direction and it put the reverb in front of the hit instead of after, giving it that "woosh" leading up to the SMACK.

 

To get the smack, you need to set the attack on your compressor relatively slow so the initial hit will get through. Then you can have it release quickly or slowly, depending on what sounds good to you.

 

You also will probably get best results on this with a snare that's not tuned too high. I love tight snares that are cranked to all hell for poppy music or punk, but for this big sound you need something a little more open.

[Jarick]

Regarding cymbal cracking, here's some advice:

 

Switch to the thinnest stick you can be comfortable with. Especially if you use thin cymbals. When you hit the cymbal with a fat stick, it is very rigid and the cymbal must flex quite a bit to absorb the shock. A thinner stick is more flexible and will absorb more shock.

 

Make sure your cymbals are angled towards you and you strike them on the bow rather than the edge. The trend today is flat cymbals, and while that's a great look, you're hitting the cymbal on the weakest part. Also, a "glancing blow" rather than hitting through the cymbal saves lives. Spend some time hitting the cymbal in a variety of ways, and you'll probably find you don't gain volume by smashing them.

 

Make sure the cymbals can swing freely on the stand. If you tighten them down and use lots of felt, you're going to cause cracks on the inside of the cymbal hole (called keyholing). It's because the energy gets transferred into the hole instead of being released through natural swinging. Keep em loose. Cymbal springs can help too, but some people find them odd. Avoid rubber washers like the Mapex cymbals.

 

Like I said, check out Saluda, at least for your china cymbals. They are half the price of big names. You can get crashes for under $100.

[the DW]

The original question was: So what makes a good studio kit?

The answer?

A good engineer with a good set of ears, good microphones, good knowledge of compression and eq, and a good pair of monitors.

The drum set? Nowhere near as important as the above.


end of story.

[1001gear]

If ya got 1500 spend 500 on the kit and 1000 on the cymbals.

 

 

Requoted FT. I'd sig it but it might make us lovers.

[coyote-1]

Depends... if you're using samples, then ONLY the engineer is necessary!

But if you're using real drums, ya gotta remember that no matter how much you polish a turd it remains a turd. The source IS important; it does make a difference if the drums & cymbals sound good and are played well.

The original question was: So what makes a good studio kit? The answer? A good engineer with a good set of ears, good microphones, good knowledge of compression and eq, and a good pair of monitors. The drum set? Nowhere near as important as the above. end of story.

 

[1001gear]

You can't polish a turd, but you don't have to. You just have to sell it.

Just had that gathering dust in my sass bag.

[Super 8]

But if you're using real drums, ya gotta remember that no matter how much you polish a turd it remains a turd.

 

 

I think you can polish a turd, but I wouldn't recommend hitting with a drumstick.

 

My take on DW's post is that it assumes the drums are of reasonable quality. I think people get a little taken in by details which ultimately don't affect the tone of the drum much.

[drumtechdad]

I think you can polish a turd, but I wouldn't recommend hitting with a drumstick. My take on DW's post is that it assumes the drums are of reasonable quality. I think people get a little taken in by details which ultimately don't affect the tone of the drum much.

 

 

I think it also assumes good/appropriate heads and somebody who can tune, too, but otherwise I agree with it.

[the DW]

Yes, I was assuming a decent set of drums to start off with, but assuming you have even a moderate kit to begin with, it's really the engineer that can make or break your drum sound.

I've been in situations where the studio had a relatively modest drum kit, but the engineer made it sound great...and vice versa.

Just an observation.

[FWAxeIbanez]

So I realize that with good mic choices and placement, any kit that sounds good in a room will sound good on tape, but what would you look for in a kit that was exclusively for tracking?

I was not asking how to get a good drum sound, I was asking for a good drum set, specifically focusing on the equipment used.

It's possible that I misunderstood the intent of your post, and if that's the case then I honestly apologize, but I think most of what you said was a "given" among people who haven't just started playing, tracking, etc... and I found it to be a bit condescending, if at least "off topic". Perhaps you are as irritated with 15 year olds spending mommies money as I am with old farts regurgitating widely accepted beginner principles, and we both pegged each other incorrectly. I'm new to playing and purchasing drums, not new to music, technique, composition, or working with drummers.

To be clear, I am not expecting the drums to do all the work. I am making an investment on an instrument with a specific purpose in mind, so I'm seeking the opinions of those more experienced than myself in order to tailor that purchase to it's intended function.

I appreciate all help thus far, and I'm glad I came here to ask because you folks have lifted a lot of the "fog" that was surrounding my options. I think I'm done picking shells, and I'm ready to start focusing on cymbals. I'm gonna go bury my head in some reviews, threads, and clips, and then start a new thread This forum was a Godsend

[the DW]

...It's possible that I misunderstood the intent of your post...

Don't worry, you wouldn't be the first one!

[the DW]

.....oh, and I myself would go with a maple or birch with a stained finish, without lacquer or wrap. Those seem to resonate best, which would give you a wider range of sounds.

just my opinion.

[Carpathian]

With all due respect, didn't I cover most of your post with this: I was not asking how to get a good drum sound, I was asking for a good drum set, specifically focusing on the equipment used. It's possible that I misunderstood the intent of your post, and if that's the case then I honestly apologize, but I think most of what you said was a "given" among people who haven't just started playing, tracking, etc... and I found it to be a bit condescending, if at least "off topic". Perhaps you are as irritated with 15 year olds spending mommies money as I am with old farts regurgitating widely accepted beginner principles, and we both pegged each other incorrectly. I'm new to playing and purchasing drums, not new to music, technique, composition, or working with drummers. To be clear, I am not expecting the drums to do all the work. I am making an investment on an instrument with a specific purpose in mind, so I'm seeking the opinions of those more experienced than myself in order to tailor that purchase to it's intended function. I appreciate all help thus far, and I'm glad I came here to ask because you folks have lifted a lot of the "fog" that was surrounding my options. I think I'm done picking shells, and I'm ready to start focusing on cymbals . I'm gonna go bury my head in some reviews, threads, and clips, and then start a new thread This forum was a Godsend

Start by looking for sound clips on the internet. Although when you put it all together it will sound different. Here are some places to check. A few of these might take a second to run through but when you can't go to the store its the next best thing.
http://paiste.com/e/soundroom.php?menuid=27

http://www.zildjian.com/EN-US/products/configurator/default.ad2

http://sabian.com/EN/setupbuilder/