Newbie drummer : tiresome bassdrum kicking

[Logicat]

Hello folks,

 

i'm new on this forum, and since i'm a newbie drummer, i think i'll have many questions to ask

 

I use a Yamaha DTXpress III Special Set, i don't need to become a pro drummer, but mostly to improve the drum part of some genres of music i make, since i'm mostly a home-recording keyboardist. I'm practicing with a book and by listening and mimicking existing songs.

 

This is my biggest problem of the moment : the bassdrum. I checked some videos and i realized that i can play it by leaving my heel against the ground (and using the front area of the foot to play it), or with a technique which involves using the front area of the foot first (with the foot and the leg being slighty raised from the ground) and then, quickly, by lowening the leg and the foot (so called "leg kick", or something similar).

Problem is : i get my leg tired VERY quickly, when i use the second approach. Just 3 minutes of that method only will make my leg totally unusable. So, what i'm asking here is : is it me that i'm doing it in the wrong way, is it the way i'm sitting on the chair which is wrong, is it my leg which needs more training to get its muscles becoming stronger...?

 

I guess that even a pro drummer couldn't use that method for an entire gig, it's simply too much tiresome...Or not ?

I guess that one has to relax the leg, at least at certain moments...But what if the song is fullfilled with kicks ?

I'm trying to use this method mostly (instead of the heel-to-ground one) because, to me, it seems that i can achieve quicker kicking.

Any suggestion will be appreciated, thank you.

[faileddrummer]

Heel up ("leg kicking" as you call it) or hell down (foot on floor) is all personal preference. You're not used to kicking, of course you'll get tired. Gotta build up the muscle. Only things you can really do is Practice, warm up before you play, and make sure your thrown is an appropriate height for your playing. (You want your snare about crotch level and you want your legs to easily hit both pedals, hi hat and bass). Try raising the seat a little. That should help. You do NOT want your knees pointing upward.

[Stark]

Drummers usually refer to them as "heels up" and "heels down." I started with them down, and now I'm trying to get comfortable playing the other way. The strange thing is, I don't get tired, I just have trouble with control.

 

And most drummers do all their gigs heels up.

[Shasta86]

I used to play heels down. But then I found out I could get way more power and speed heels up.

[royal crxsh johnson]

 

Problem is : i get my leg tired VERY quickly, when i use the second approach. Just 3 minutes of that method only will make my leg totally unusable. So, what i'm asking here is : is it me that i'm doing it in the wrong way, is it the way i'm sitting on the chair which is wrong, is it my leg which needs more training to get its muscles becoming stronger...? I guess that even a pro drummer couldn't use that method for an entire gig, it's simply too much tiresome...Or not ?

 

 

 

you need to get stronger. i just played a gig for over an hour doing double bass fills on a single bass pedal all heel up. it takes practice.

[Longfuse]

There's a trick to heel down that most drummers use to get a little more speed for doubles. Keep the foot totally relaxed for the first hit. The moment the beater comes off the head, curl your toes slightly and go in for the next hit. Relax again for the next stroke etc.

 

It's a tension-release thing with the muscles of the sole of your foot and helps you get a little more speed up. No, you don't get the power or speed that you can achieve with other methods, but it is less tiring on the legs.

[1001gear]

Stay off the front of the pedal. It's a waste of energy up there. Keep your toes on the back (closer to you) half of the foot board and learn to 'swing' the beater - just like sticks.

[the DW]

Stay off the front of the pedal. It's a waste of energy up there. Keep your toes on the back (closer to you) half of the foot board and learn to 'swing' the beater - just like sticks.

 

^ What he said.

 

Also, you need to build up stamina. Only one way to do that. I think you know what that is.

 

[twosticks]

I will agree with that. I think would be the same as having a bunch of us drumers subject to an hours worth of finger excersises on the keyboard. Our pinkies would be numb and our dexterity with our fingers spread apart would suffer fast. As a keyboard player, you are used to it.

 

That's what feet and ankle control is to a drummer. Over months and years of playing heels up or down, we've learned more of being able to use our foot without tensing up our calf muscles as we do it. Over time it becomes habit to "roll" our foot and use the leverage of the pedal like 1001 said so that all we need is a little pushing down of the leg.

 

What I do mostly is put the the "Balls" of my foot (the meaty part on the underfoot where your toe bones first start) on the mid-point of the pedal with my heel maybe a quarter inchoff the ground. Then I use just enough force with my legs to make my heel "tap" the ground and "roll" (like a runner that lands mid foot and pushes off with the toes as they run)

 

Mostly is getting the pedal spring and fulcrum of where you place your foot to work with you. Or like how new computer people have a problem with double-clicking and veterns seem to do it without much though, hope this helps.....

[Unstrung]

Get your heel off the ground and just start playing. Your leg will figure it out and you'll build the muscles.

[boxofrocks]

^^^ Yup yup, and you can take small breaks in between hits, and relax it.

I don't think my heels up the whole time, I take small breaks in between hits, and drop my foot and rest until it's time to play again. But ya don't think about it, it just does it.

[Logicat]

Interesting suggestions you gave me here. I'm going to try these on this evening. Thank you all !!

[Wellhungarian]

Some other factors into your fatigue other than experience, can be your throne height and where you sit on the throne.

[lalapancakes]

I dont know of any techniques that allow you to play longer (there is for playing faster though) and everyone has there preference for technique. Just practice more and you'll get more endurance. Maybe if you really wanted to get more endurance maybe do some leg work outs? (Do endurance work outs to, lifting a lot of weight 3 times isn't going to help endurance it will just make your legs have more power. So instead maybe do workouts that allow you to lift it 20 times.) I have never worked out for my drumming but hey you could try you know? And even if it doesn't work your still getting something out of it.

[jenksdrummer]

I've always played heel-up, heel-down wears me out too quickly, and I don't have enough power.

 

 

Even when I was playing in jazz band in jr/sr high...heel up!

[devinw]

[Logicat]

 

SO MUCH POWER involved in drum playing ?

 

This evening i tried the techniques you suggested. I noticed 2 interesting things :

 

A) I'm using a bad seat : a wood kitchen-table chair, actually It's squared, and i put some towels and a pair of short pillows to increase my height in comparison to the bassdrum (to avoid having the knees pointing upward, even slighty).

Note that to keep my heel raised, i have to keep my leg slighty raised. This lead to a very tired leg. The towels helped in keeping the leg in contact with the chair (partially), and reduced the fatigue;

 

B) If i only play the bassdrum and the snare, but not the hihat, the precision of my bassdrum kicks increases. I think that this is due to the fact that the brain of a very entry-level drummer like me can better control the muscles and the force it transmits to my legs when the amount of involved stimuluses is littler. If the hihat enters the game too, the bassdrum kicks become less strong, slower, and more tiring

[JohnCav]

 

^^^ Yup yup, and you can take small breaks in between hits, and relax it. I don't think my heels up the whole time, I take small breaks in between hits, and drop my foot and rest until it's time to play again. But ya don't think about it, it just does it.

 

The same thing happens to me. Between hits, my foot just rests on my pedal and Im not holding it up in the air. It seems alot more natural and uses alot less energy

[the DW]

...B) If i only play the bassdrum and the snare, but not the hihat, the precision of my bassdrum kicks increases. I think that this is due to the fact that the brain of a very entry-level drummer like me can better control the muscles and the force it transmits to my legs when the amount of involved stimuluses is littler. If the hihat enters the game too, the bassdrum kicks become less strong, slower, and more tiring...

 

 

I get the impression that you are going out of balance when you use the hi hat, thus causing your bass drum leg to have to work harder.

 

Make sure that you place your bass drum and hi hat so that your legs are spread evenly, and that your feet are the same distance, forming an even triangle. That may help.

 

But again, it's gonna take practice practice practice and more practice to build up your stamina. Oh, and by the way, you'll need to practice.

 

[Unstrung]

 

The same thing happens to me. Between hits, my foot just rests on my pedal and Im not holding it up in the air. It seems alot more natural and uses alot less energy

 

 

Yep, mine may or may not do the same... probably does... because it's easy that way!

 

That's the main point I've been trying to make... that as long as you work on it, you will A) Build the muscles and B) Find the way that is easiest for you.

[zildjian@consol]

 

^^^ Yup yup, and you can take small breaks in between hits, and relax it. I don't think my heels up the whole time, I take small breaks in between hits, and drop my foot and rest until it's time to play again. But ya don't think about it, it just does it.

 

 

Yeah, I don't think about it .Kinda play both heel up for faster things and heel down for most others. Been working on foot triplets off and on, always feel that front outside muscle next to my shin

[Chiisu]

 

The same thing happens to me. Between hits, my foot just rests on my pedal and Im not holding it up in the air. It seems alot more natural and uses alot less energy

 

 

But then you get into what is a very sore subject for some drummers/teachers. When I started playing drums I played heels-down, but then after a few months I got into heels-up and that's all I play now. Buuuut, when I played heel-down it was natural to let the beater rebound off the head. With heels-up, I bury the beater into the head and leave it there while i rest my foot. Since I play rock/metal the tone is fine, and at faster speeds it's moving off the head anyways...

[Logicat]

 

But then you get into what is a very sore subject for some drummers/teachers. When I started playing drums I played heels-down, but then after a few months I got into heels-up and that's all I play now. Buuuut, when I played heel-down it was natural to let the beater rebound off the head. With heels-up, I bury the beater into the head and leave it there while i rest my foot. Since I play rock/metal the tone is fine, and at faster speeds it's moving off the head anyways...

 

 

This was actually another interesting question i have to ask : is it correct (or usual) to leave the beater against the head, when you're not using the bassdrum ? Of course, this is way more relaxing than keeping it detached from the head, since you need to raise the front area of the foot...But is it a common behaviour ?

 

From the many answers i got, i understood that practice models your habit, and that i will find the optimal method by myself. But i was wondering how drummers who have been playing for years have ended up with their own kicking method.

[zildjian@consol]

 

This was actually another interesting question i have to ask : is it correct (or usual) to leave the beater against the head, when you're not using the bassdrum ? Of course, this is way more relaxing than keeping it detached from the head, since you need to raise the front area of the foot...But is it a common behaviour ? From the many answers i got, i understood that practice models your habit, and that i will find the optimal method by myself. But i was wondering how drummers who have been playing for years have ended up with their own kicking method.

 

 

On a acoustic drum the tone is better with beater striking the drum ,but not resting against the head.Also if you learn this way on the next beat you don't have to let the pedal back and then press down to create the beat, you just press down.

[1001gear]

 

This was actually another interesting question i have to ask : is it correct (or usual) to leave the beater against the head, when you're not using the bassdrum ? Of course, this is way more relaxing than keeping it detached from the head, since you need to raise the front area of the foot...But is it a common behaviour ? From the many answers i got, i understood that practice models your habit, and that i will find the optimal method by myself. But i was wondering how drummers who have been playing for years have ended up with their own kicking method.

 

 

If you raise the spring tension to the med - maximum range and play the footboard 'long', not only is this a non issue, you'll find that burying the beater takes a considerable effort.