Members Outkaster Posted March 2, 2005 Members Share Posted March 2, 2005 Originally posted by Blackwatch What's funny is I'm less jaded now that when I was 20. I raised my daughter and had a business before I started my true music career and I'm just happy to be doing it right now.... Well it is not like I am not happy about the things music has brought me. It is just that I think I waisted too much that I thought I had to on music. Really there are some bands I should have not stayed in and gotten serious on the side with making some money. They way things are you have to think of the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members discount star Posted March 4, 2005 Members Share Posted March 4, 2005 Bluestrat makes a lot of sense. You should listen to him. I'm 42 and had everything going for me as well. Got signed-nothing came of the record for lack of promotion. Got screwed by a management company. The band stayed together over a year longer than anyone wanted to so we could pay off debts. There is nothing wrong with pursuing a career in music or having dreams but you really should explore other avenues as well. I ate, slept and {censored} music when I was 22. Today you can't beat me out of the house. I have a wonderful wife and a recording studio in my house. Why leave? Trust me, things change as you get older...you may not think so, but they do. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackwatch Posted March 6, 2005 Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 Well it is not like I am not happy about the things music has brought me. It is just that I think I waisted too much that I thought I had to on music. Really there are some bands I should have not stayed in and gotten serious on the side with making some money. They way things are you have to think of the future... Don't take me wrong....I can't tell you both the pain and pleasure music has brought to me. And everything that Bluestrat says is right on the money. If any body is doing music for fame or money the're heading for pain. The music biz is so corrupted right now......The whole reason I'm coming to some kind of peace with this music thing is finally getting to some kind of truth as to why I'm doing it all......Which is because I have to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted March 6, 2005 Members Share Posted March 6, 2005 Yeah I was just a little down because the job market is stressed. When you do not have money and it is on your mind constantly it makes you think about what is important and that is surviving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sleepin' Deeper Posted March 7, 2005 Members Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by Outkaster it makes you think about what is important and that is surviving. Not really. You can survive and not be “alive”. What’s important is “living”! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted March 7, 2005 Members Share Posted March 7, 2005 yes it is but you have to prioritize what you are doing. I spent alot of money on gear I did not need and waisted some times in bands, all of a sudden I woke up and was not 25 anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackwatch Posted March 8, 2005 Members Share Posted March 8, 2005 yes it is but you have to prioritize what you are doing. I spent alot of money on gear I did not need and waisted some times in bands, all of a sudden I woke up and was not 25 anymore. I hear you about survival. I'm working odd contruction jobs that kill my aching body, to keep on doing this, trying to make it pay enough to be full time. I'm just lucky that I have a wonderful, supportive wife with a good job. The only difference is I now know what I'm going to be when I grow up. I'm an artist/musician. That's my career now. It took me almost 30 years to come to that conclusion. And it feels right. I might have to do other distasteful or painful things to keep going, but I know what I am....finally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LDF Posted March 8, 2005 Members Share Posted March 8, 2005 I define success on two criteria: 1. Write good music and getter better at it. 2. Move as many people as I can with it. I write music because it's really all that matters to me. I have to do it. As for financial success, I don't know. But I do know that if I ever stopped writing, that would be the day I die. The two criteria say it all. I wanna make great music, and I want people to find something worthwhile in it. If I can do that, I'll be truly happy. And if I'm truly happy, I am successful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emuhumper74 Posted March 8, 2005 Members Share Posted March 8, 2005 Originally posted by LDF I define success on two criteria:1. Write good music and getter better at it. 2. Move as many people as I can with it.I write music because it's really all that matters to me. I have to do it. As for financial success, I don't know. But I do know that if I ever stopped writing, that would be the day I die. The two criteria say it all. I wanna make great music, and I want people to find something worthwhile in it. If I can do that, I'll be truly happy. And if I'm truly happy, I am successful... My definition of success is based on one criteria. 1. Take care of my wife and future kids. If I can do this by playing music, great; if not no problem, you'll still find me playing the local bar. Music can be great but it's no contender for my wife, she makes me truly happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LDF Posted March 8, 2005 Members Share Posted March 8, 2005 Originally posted by Emuhumper74 My definition of success is based on one criteria.1. Take care of my wife and future kids.If I can do this by playing music, great; if not no problem, you'll still find me playing the local bar. Music can be great but it's no contender for my wife, she makes me truly happy. You're a luckier man than me. My music is all I have to comfort me most days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackwatch Posted March 9, 2005 Members Share Posted March 9, 2005 Music can be great but it's no contender for my wife, she makes me truly happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted March 9, 2005 Members Share Posted March 9, 2005 Originally posted by Blackwatch That is a nice statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mmmiddle Posted March 10, 2005 Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 (Taurus) be it Alchemy, Thelemy, Gnosticism, Christianity, Buddism, Wicca, Freemasonry, Shamanism, ROCK n' ROLL, each of these philosophies (if you will) honor the power of the self with an emphasis on an awareness on our spirits interaction with the world. Find what works for you, but BE YOU!!! Don't be like the Chino wanna-be's, to be consistent with one example. I know its OT but Christianity definitely doesn't belong on that list! Christianity teaches death of the self not honor of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Blackwatch Posted March 10, 2005 Members Share Posted March 10, 2005 That is a nice statement. It was origianlly emuhumper's but I have to concur. I'm one of the luckiest men in the world when it comes to finding love. My wife is the greatest. Now if I could just get the rest of my life together....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ZigZagWanderer Posted October 28, 2005 Members Share Posted October 28, 2005 8) Bands who make it and stay on top for awhile all have that "something extra" that is an undefinable quality. Once you meet some of these people and (by some incredible stroke of fortune) get to play with them, you will see that while maybe what they do on record sounds easy enough to duplicate, it's the live show that is what makes them what they are. I know this thread is old, but it came up on another search I did and I thought it was really interesting. Bluestrat, are you still around? Can you explain this part of your post a little bit more? Or does anyone else want to weigh in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kha02a Posted October 28, 2005 Members Share Posted October 28, 2005 I'm not as experienced as Bluestrat or some of these other guys but I think I may be able to comment on this statement by him. I work as an intern in a studio right now and I get lots of opportunities to sit in on tracking sessions, mixing sessions and what not. The producer I work for is extremely talented and can make almost anybody sound good that has good songs as a foundation. He can start with some acoustic demos and by the time all of his session players have come in and he has worked his pro tools magic most of his projects sound pretty damn good. But most of these artists can't come close to reduplicating this live. I think alot of the successful acts that we love come into a studio with their own great ideas. Not that a producer can't help. But if you are talented enough to make great music in a studio and then nail it live, your probably good enough to go somewhere. Notice that I said "great" music. Also Bluestrat might have been talking about alot of these artists that make their live show an experience of its own. Most of the bands I love to go see don't get on stage and play their albums note for note. There is usually a bit of improvisiation and showmanship to it. That's what makes great live shows so exciting and that can separate the good bands from the great bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted October 31, 2005 Members Share Posted October 31, 2005 Originally posted by ZigZagWanderer I know this thread is old, but it came up on another search I did and I thought it was really interesting.Bluestrat, are you still around? Can you explain this part of your post a little bit more? Or does anyone else want to weigh in it? Sure. There is an unquantifiable "something" which the successful have, all other things being equal. I opened for Robert Cray twice in the 80s, before he hit the big time, and I knew the first time I saw him he was going to be pretty big. He didn't move around, he didn't have a great stage patter (in fact, his bass player was the actual "front man"), he wasn't the greatest guitar player , but man could he sing and deliver a song in a way that made your hair stand up. I could say the same about most of the other people I opened for-George Benson, Charlie Musselwhite, John Mayall, and so on. I can't tell you what it is about each of these guys that made them special. I just know it isn't ability alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bass_n_drums Posted November 1, 2005 Members Share Posted November 1, 2005 Originally posted by BlueStrat I think everyone who straps on a guitar and plays out still has it somewhere in the back of their minds that it could happen, regardless of how long they've been at it. But I'd have to count myself in as being "jaded". Perhaps grown up and more realistic would be a better term, though. After 34 years of doing this, I have learned some things, in no particular order:1) If you're getting really, really good on your instrument to impress other people, don't bother. No matter how good you get, the only people who are going to really give a rip are other guitar players, and they'll likely resent you for it. 2) Music may be art, but as soon as you hire yourself out for money, it becomes a business. Many a young musician has struggled needlessly and eventually thrown in the towel because they onlyy know the art of it and try in vain to apply principles of art to the business of it. If you're going to enter the business, learn the business.3) Just because you have a vision for your music does not mean you can't do other things to help yourself along. You may be totally into original music that sounds like a cross between Puddle of Mudd and Rage Against the Machine, but it wouldn't kill you to learn 4 hours worth of covers or be in a couple of bands to increase your gig opportunities and your knowledge of music. You can make a couple of hundred bucks a night or more doing weddings, conventions, etc, which will go a long way toward financing your vision. Or you could say "screw that!" and work two low-paying jobs, insuring that you have no time to devote to your vision, or get sucked into a higher-paying job with high expectations and low flexibility. And one day you wake up and discover that you're 37 years old or so, and no farther along than you were when you were 20, except now no one wants to hear your songs. 4) If I had a dime for every time I was approached by a "record company exec" or an "A&R guy" I could probably replace the siding on my house. Most of them and I mean MOST OF THEM, are more full of {censored} that a nest full of young owls. They like to act like a big shot in front of impressionable musicians to stroke their own egos, and to have everyone fawn all over them. But the reality is that a good many of them are contract talent scouts who work for a commission and who may bring 20 bands in for interviews and not get one of them past the first meeting. Or they're just lying sacks of sauce. Now when I hear that, I ask them 1) who they've signed, 2) what company thery represent, and 3) who I may contact along with a phone number to verify their story. If they don't give it to me straight, and hee haw around, I get away from them as fast as I can. 5) Just because you get signed doesn't mean you're going to go anywhere. I signed with a relatively new company back in the 80s who paid for a record album, as well as for the logo painted on our band truck, and got us a video,etc etc. Of course, being young and dumb and hot to get a record deal, I didn't notice in the small print (and wouldn't have thought to ask anyway) that there was no distribution. Zip. Nada. We had to sell vinyl albums offstage and pay EVERY DIME back to the company until they were paid back, and all without a marketing plan. You wanna know what their idea was? They wanted to sell the records via TV commercials and skip the retailers. Oh great, I can hear the public now- "Oh, look, honey, a record not sold in stores from some band no one has ever heard of-get out the checkbook while I write down the toll-free number!" Needless to say, the record company folded within the following year.6) Just because you have a hit record doesn't mean you're going to get rich. Just watch the "where are they now" or "one hit wonders" shows on the music channels to see what I mean. 7) Just because your friends and family think that your songs are really really really good doesn't mean they in fact are.8) Bands who make it and stay on top for awhile all have that "something extra" that is an undefinable quality. Once you meet some of these people and (by some incredible stroke of fortune) get to play with them, you will see that while maybe what they do on record sounds easy enough to duplicate, it's the live show that is what makes them what they are.9) Get a backup plan. I can't tell you how many musicians (myself included) who, when younger, had everone in the world telling them how wonderful they were and how anyone with a set of ears could tell they were going to be big stars, just stay with it, bla bla bla. That's fine; they aren't the ones sleeping in the car or eating cans of tuna fish. Get a degree in something or at least a trade school for a couple of years. You'd be surprised at how many guys get disillusioned at 30 or so, meet a beautiful woman (who 9 times out of 10 wants her man home helping raise kids) get married, and now want to settle down but realize they can't earn more than 10 bucks an hour working at Guitar Center or hanging drywall, and have no insurance, no retirement...It happens WAY more than you think, though most young players driven by success never want to entertain the possibility that they may not make it. 10) Even if you do everything right-good songs, charismatic stage persona, a good following, etc etc-there's still no guarantee you'll make it. It still comes down to being in the right place at the right time, meeting the right guy who works for the right company who can get your stuff to the right other guy....it's an entirely subjective process, and only takes one rejection in the link to get plopped unceremoniously back to square one. It's something like winning the lottery- you can prepare and increase your odds by buying a thousand tickets, but chance still plays the winning hand in the deal. Sorry this is so long, but I just get tired of seeing so many defeated musicians give up because they had no idea what they were getting themselves into or setting themselves up for. There is a huge area between just getting started and being a superstar that one can live in quite comfortably, and play a hell of a lot of music as well, if one keeps their expectations in the realm of reality. As the old cliche says, "Hey, it's s journey, not a destination". Enjoy the ride while it lasts.(edited for typos, of which there were many) i've always takened to heart to the things you've said! you certainly care enough t share your knowledge and experienced to those who are lost or disillusion by the reality of the biz. Very much appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vanlatte Posted November 4, 2005 Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by BlueStrat I could say the same about most of the other people I opened for-George Benson, Charlie Musselwhite, John Mayall, and so on. I can't tell you what it is about each of these guys that made them special. I just know it isn't ability alone. I brought up this question in the past: Why are there so many bands with "good" music that just don't seem to go anywhere? Listening to a lot of original bands lately and so many of them have all the right elements: talent, ability, catchy songs, whatever but something is still missing. I am a firm believer in that mysterious magic ingrediant, although I have no idea what it might be. BlutStrat said it better than I ever could. Back on topic: I spent the last 2 1/2 years in an original band. I recently discovered (rather forcefully) that I have different goals than the other guys. All members have families, full time jobs, are pushing 40. 8 gigs in 2 1/2 years, one (poorly produced) CD, 10 fans on a good day and these guys still honestly believe they have something. I never bought into it, and it came out in various ways. My commitment level never wavered but I just never really believed we could do it. (read: make it big, whatever that means). I doubt they will either. Does that make me jaded or realistic? I honestly don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droge Posted November 12, 2005 Members Share Posted November 12, 2005 BlueStrat: I like alot of the points you've made on this post!! Very well laid-out and to the point. I have to keep all this in mind, since my duo's been getting lots of attention as of late. Reading your comments makes me want to stay grounded and realistic for the most part, even more so 'cuz anything could happen. It's true, the whole thing's usually predicated by the 'right place at the right time' notion, so we'll see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AJ6stringsting Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 I toured all over the U.S. and Canada back in the 80's, I always though what if I made it and I really never really cared. All I cared about was playing the next song and that people really had fun too.I mean I could do any fancy trick on the guitar and get real Bluesy too, but all that matters is the tunes man......pure and simple:thu: .One wish that I never had come true, was to play rythum for Joe Satriani , heck I'd sleep in a chicken shack for a week just to play rythum guitar for that guy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members squirrelsolvent Posted December 20, 2005 Members Share Posted December 20, 2005 no one seems to want to say that maybe what helps you make it is having really good, catchy songs. Not that it's a sure thing, but talent often rises to the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrdave Posted December 20, 2005 Members Share Posted December 20, 2005 Originally posted by squirrelsolvent no one seems to want to say that maybe what helps you make it is having really good, catchy songs. Not that it's a sure thing, but talent often rises to the top. Sorry but that's not always the case. I have several CD's of complete unknown artists that have released what I believe are EXCELLENT songs (radio-worthy, catchy, themed, great musicianship) but have gone nowhere on the charts or in sales. Maia Sharp is one artist that I just don't understand why pop fame has escaped her. She even has a fairly famous/connected father so it's not always true, the old saying "It's WHO you know..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigGdelta Posted December 27, 2005 Members Share Posted December 27, 2005 my take is if you can make a living playing music then you are ahead of the game. yeah I have to play browneyed girl every nite. but I get a steady paycheck doing what I love. So I didn't make it as a rock star, I can still do what I love and make a living at it. do you want to be a muscian or a rock star? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted October 29, 2008 Members Share Posted October 29, 2008 That is exception not that rule. What game are you ahead of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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