So whos jaded?

[bostonwal]

 

Maia Sharp is one artist that I just don't understand why pop fame has escaped her. She even has a fairly famous/connected father so it's not always true, the old saying "It's WHO you know..."

 

 

I checked out Maia Sharp on myspace - she's got a bona fide pro music career going on. I'm not clear on how she is being used as an example. She plays with Bonnie Raitt - actually sitting in with Bonnie Raitt's band - on what seems like a regular basis "on sax and vocals" in addition to her own touring career. Are you saying that without "pop fame" she should be disappointed with what she is doing?

[modulusman]

Do you guys realize this thread is 3 years old.

[BlueStrat]

Someone's been dumpster diving.

[prevost82]

Seeing as this was pulled from the dumpster

 

I’d have to say I’ve been jaded by the music industry at times.

 

I started playing pro in bands in 1967, playing with a lot of great touring bands that I thought should have made it but never did. I’ve played in R&B, blues, rock, funk and fusion jazz bands.

 

Unlike today in the 60’s, 70’s and early 80’s you could make a good living touring because there was so many venues to play and the audience back then seamed to love live music. Clubs had live music 5 nights a week and you were booked for the full week. Usually by Thursday night the place was packed and Friday and Saturday was busting at the seems. Most clubs had band houses that the band roomed in or if it was a hotel with a cabaret we got separate rooms free, we also would get one meal a day for free.

 

If I remember right I was making $30 a night in the 60’s and $50 to $100 a night in the 70’s, early 80’s. In the 60’s my dad was making $4 to $6 per hr.

 

Like BlueStrat … in 83-84 I saw the write on the wall and quit the music biz. The band I was play with at the time toured across Canada and fill a 2000 seat venue, had 2 LP’s out, had some national airplay, but we couldn’t get noticed by the labels and the amount of venue that were our bread and butter were changing to DJ’s and get good booking was getting way harder and getting only 3 night or worse 2 nights … which we as a band could not live on.

 

I totally quit playing for 10 yrs never even touch my B3 in that time. I was one of the lucky ones … I had an exit plan … somehow I had manage to get a Mechanical Engineering degree in the early 70’s so I fell back on that.

 

In 93 I got a phone call to join a 9 pc R&B horn band and I checked it and joined with a totally different attitude … I was playing for fun and for the music and I fell in love again with playing. Since 93 I’ve been playing with a lot of bands and also pimp out as a sideman to other bands and still enjoying it, now that I don’t have to make a living at it.

 

I don’t know how most of these young artists make a living touring today with the lack of venues that are out there and the lack of audience that wants to pay money to see them when they can download their songs for free and listen to them on their iPods that have great sound quality.

 

I know a young artist that is definitely a standout performer and writer. She tours with one sideman most of the time and crosses Canada touring, up to 4 times a year, with many legs of the tour around 500 miles. They get around 500 to 1000 a night depending on the venue … how she keeps it going I have no idea.

 

That’s me 2 bit’s

[Guvnor]

 

Hmm - I play mostly underground stuff now but at one point I was being courted by labels and getting major radio airplay. Certainly was an eye opener as the drummer and the singer ditched out last minute.

 

 

This brings up another point: musicians are generally the scum of the earth and will screw you over in a moment's notice. The music industry is full of crooks and liars... It's very hard to put yourself on the line with these flakes...

[Poker99]

These guys HAVE the "mysterious, magic ingrediant"

 

 

These guys too !

 

 

See? ITS MAGIC!

 

 

HOW SPECIAL!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

 

 

[Booya Tribe]

Honestly, I am not jaded about music and I don't think I ever will be. I always have and always will make music because I enjoy doing it.

 

For some crazy reason or another, I have managed to get paid for music on many occasions, and different new crazy reasons continue to come up, but I was just as happy making music when I was 15 years old, playing tapes of my songs for my friends, as I have been getting paid to make music.

 

A person doing what they truly love for the sheer love of doing it is never bothered much with success or failure.

[Outkaster]

Yeah you have to love it and even then {censored} gets to you so I don't by the success or failure thing.

[Outkaster]

I had to bump this up because Pat's advice was still relevant.

[danosongs]

I am very far beyond jaded.

 

Thank god that is over.

[Poker99]

I was jaded 5 years ago.

 

Now I don't give a damn.

 

Kids with rock star dreams just make me laught!

[Temple of Light]

Hey man,

If Justin Beiber can get on TV, anything is possible...but just as unlikely...

[Outkaster]

That's true. At least he can almost play an instrument.

[flatfinger]

I'm not just jaded anymore ; I'm misanthropic ( you bastards !)

[GtrProductions]

Depends on how you define success - you could be in a band that puts out albums and tours the world, yet barely breaks even. It may not bring riches but still could be a great experience in your 20's, maybe even 30's. Just enjoy yourself!

 

I would also say, don't give anything up at age 22 that you care about!

[Outkaster]

That's ture too bad it is so hard.

[BlueStrat]

Watching the music business change has for me been like the 5 stages of death Elizabeth Kubler Ross mentioned.

 

The fist stage is denial: when I went back into music with the intention of seeing how far I could take it after being out of it full time for many years, I was shocked at how much it had changed. I didn't want t accept that the whole thing had changed, that there were no more full time gigs to speak of, that the worlds of the hobbyist and the pro had been completely melded together.

 

Then came anger: being pissed off that venues were paying what they did 20 years ago; pissed off that so many guys will go play for little or free, make records for free, etc etc. Pissed off that technology made the music biz more political and more connection based, not less, and angry that I spent 35 years learning how to do something that was rapidly becoming irrelevant and increasingly no longer applied. I felt like the guy who finally perfected the horse collar and buggy whip in about 1902.

 

Then came the bargaining stage: I thought I could make enough concessions to the new model and still incorporate the old, and make technology work for me, and still make a living being who and what I was. I also thought that perhaps the technology thing would pass, or a way would be found to make it profitable. I was willing to go along.

 

Then depression-it became clear that things were only going to get cheaper, less profitable, harder, and less likely to provide a working musician wit a sustainable income like it did 25 years ago. Like many manufacturing jobs, the full time musician jobs are gone, and never coming back. This realization was crushing to me.

 

And finally, acceptance- I had to get away from here for awhile and do a lot of thinking and soul searching. I asked DM to give me a temp ban so I'd be forced to go do other things than hang out here ( which is hard- I love this place!) And I finally realized that reality is what it is, that everyone is in the same boat, and that fighting it is futile and creates nothing but misery, ill will and stomach acid. So now I'm back here with a different attitude- I still won't play for free or give it away, but I won't be so hard on those who do, because it won't mater much in the end.

 

C'est la vie!

[3shiftgtr]

Watching the music business change has for me been like the 5 stages of death Elizabeth Kubler Ross mentioned. The fist stage is denial: when I went back into music with the intention of seeing how far I could take it after being out of it full time for many years, I was shocked at how much it had changed. I didn't want t accept that the whole thing had changed, that there were no more full time gigs to speak of, that the worlds of the hobbyist and the pro had been completely melded together. Then came anger: being pissed off that venues were paying what they did 20 years ago; pissed off that so many guys will go play for little or free, make records for free, etc etc. Pissed off that technology made the music biz more political and more connection based, not less, and angry that I spent 35 years learning how to do something that was rapidly becoming irrelevant and increasingly no longer applied. I felt like the guy who finally perfected the horse collar and buggy whip in about 1902. Then came the bargaining stage: I thought I could make enough concessions to the new model and still incorporate the old, and make technology work for me, and still make a living being who and what I was. I also thought that perhaps the technology thing would pass, or a way would be found to make it profitable. I was willing to go along. Then depression-it became clear that things were only going to get cheaper, less profitable, harder, and less likely to provide a working musician wit a sustainable income like it did 25 years ago. Like many manufacturing jobs, the full time musician jobs are gone, and never coming back. This realization was crushing to me. And finally, acceptance- I had to get away from here for awhile and do a lot of thinking and soul searching. I asked DM to give me a temp ban so I'd be forced to go do other things than hang out here ( which is hard- I love this place!) And I finally realized that reality is what it is, that everyone is in the same boat, and that fighting it is futile and creates nothing but misery, ill will and stomach acid. So now I'm back here with a different attitude- I still won't play for free or give it away, but I won't be so hard on those who do, because it won't mater much in the end. C'est la vie!

 

Brilliant...Guess I'm still stuck in bargaining....but feel free to whap the give-it-away bunnies on the head. It really does make us all feel better!

 

Nice to see ya back, tho'!

[Outkaster]

Me too.

[Cliftonb]

Highly optimistic over here!

[sventvkg]

... im not dumb, or a pure idealist... but I try to be optimistic. I know there are alot of older guys here, who have been worked pretty hard by the biz... but whos got some tips on morale and positivity?

 

I'm not jaded at all. I plan to have success writing and producing in Nashville. I'm absolutely positive I have the talent, chops and desire to do so. I just have to put in the network time and work and that's what I'm doing now. The next Decade is going to be AWESOME!!! ))))

 

I'm still going to play gigs on weekends whether it's my stuff or sideman duty for friends, I'm doing writers nights several nights a week and writing my ass off everyday. Thank GOD i'm retired from cover gigs which although I always made a living at, I was always depressed about having to do and never happy about it.

 

As for tips I will say this. Work HARD..I mean HARDER than anyone else you know. Play out a lot..I Averaged over 200 gigs a year for 20 years, all over the globe and that kind of experience and growth is priceless and can't be replaced. Also, you have to have a hunger for being a musician that far outweighs anything else in your life. I always had it but I lacked focus when I was your age. Focus is a very important element also. Do whatever it takes no matter what to get further toward you goal.

 

It's pretty simple. If your goal is to be a great player, practice hours and hours a day for years and you will be. If your goal is to be a great writer, write all day everyday all the time for years. In both cases if you have a seed of talent you will reach your goal. Take those two examples and apply them to anything an your success CAN'T be denied!

 

You're going to have ups and downs in life no matter what. Sometimes you'll be broke, sometimes you'll lose gigs, a couple times you might lose all your gigs, etc. but if you keep the hard work up, you'll create your own luck and eventually opportunities will arise that are the result of those years of hard work you put in. So, no substitute for hard work and focus. If you love music and can't live with doing anything else you have a great shot to make a life out of it.

[sventvkg]

Man, I didn't realize this was an 8 year old thread!!!!

 

Pat, seriously man, The reason I developed into the musician I am today and was able to make a living at it all these years is because I always had a mentor and role model like you who taught me the DEAL from the beginning. I REALLY REALLY respect your knowledge, honesty, experience, skill and talent. I will try to be the same role model to younger musicians as you are. You don't always say what they want to hear but you are ALWAYS honest and straightforward which commands respect bro!

[Outkaster]

If we could get this post over on Backstage forum it would be good because it could be relevant for a few people.

[sventvkg]

I'm jaded but at the same time I KNOW i'm going to have success as a songwriter and ultimately as a producer here in Nashville because I can visualize it and I've been here long enough to know I have what it takes. I work as hard as I can and it's just a matter of time. I feel real good about being able to take care of my family in the next 5 years from my original musical endeavors. However in a general sense, I've seen it all and done it all so yea I'm jaded as hell!!!

[sventvkg]

 

Hrmm I would consider gigging since I have been 15 at least a START on an aprenticeship... im all about paying "dues", and am willing to keep hashing out with gigs to make it happen.

 

 

The more you gig the better you will get at everything..Performing, singing live, playing, etc..

The more you write, the better songs you will write, provided you have talent to begin with...

The more hours you put into your instruments, studio skills, music business and basically everything in life, the better you will get. The 10K hour rule really does apply. Play A LOT.

Learn lots of cover songs because it will make you well rounded and teach you what a good song is..Learn the Classic great songs..NOT flash bull{censored} that is current and on the radio.

 

That's gonna take you a good 10 years just to get good and I don't know where you are on your journey at present. After that, put a killer project together, figure out the scene where you are and get in on it. If you have something good, you'll know pretty quickly. Also, I would move to a great music scene.