Members SkiAz4Free Posted August 28, 2009 Members Share Posted August 28, 2009 Well, I was in your shoes over 22 years ago, does that tell you anything? Back then, we only had the local music shops to rely upon. The shop people and your parents would do all the talking while you were completely overwhelmed with bright, shiney, noisemaking things ALL AROUND YOU! Parents told the shop people what they were willing to spend, shop people pointed to the one or 2 kits that would be your choice. Everything else was out of the question. No craigslist or ebay to look for things that were 2 miles away from you, instead you had to check the Sunday Classifieds to see if there were any used instruments. You'll learn things, and acquire gear over time. The more you practice, the better your abilities we be. The more comfortable you are behind the kit, the more likely you will be to jam with other musicians. The more musicians you meet, the better the opportunity to get a band going. The more your band practices, the better you will be. The better your band is, the more comfortable you will be to play gigs. The more gigs you play, the better the chances of getting laid. The more you get laid, the more likely you are to play better at the next gig. The more gigs you play that you kick ass, the better the chances to get better gigs. The more quality gigs you get, the more likely you are to get noticed and signed with a record label. The more records and concerts you get through your record label, the more god-like you will become. The more god-like you become, the more drugs you will take. The more drugs you take, the more you become like Keith Moon. And then you will die. It's the circle of life really. How the fukk did we survive without the internets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D Carroll Posted August 28, 2009 Members Share Posted August 28, 2009 You'll regret getting the cheap big set. It'll sound like a wet fart (at best) the cymbals will annoy the {censored} out of you in a few weeks as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AiL45 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 28, 2009 You'll regret getting the cheap big set. It'll sound like a wet fart (at best) the cymbals will annoy the {censored} out of you in a few weeks as well. yea no longer plan on getting the s/p. the guys on here have helped a lot so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twosticks Posted August 28, 2009 Members Share Posted August 28, 2009 Howdy, haven't been on in a few days. Well is a lot of good info on here! Yes, take your time and remember you don't have to buy everything today. The used PDP kit looks good enough to start on for right now. The Yamahas are a little better I think as well. PDP, Mapex,Yamaha, Mapex, Ludwig, Tama, Pearl, Sonor, Gretch, and a few more are good brand names that make entry level and all the way up to higher end in each brand name. Also I would recommend at least one or two drum lessons if you can. Learning the proper way to hold the sticks, letting them bouce, tune the drums, setup and play your drums comfortably for YOU will make a big difference too. Playing the wrong way can hurt your wrist, hands, legs and feet. It makes playing well difficult. It can also be rough on your equipment. For instance, you don't whack your cymbals like you're hitting a tennis ball with a racket. I started out on a cheaper kit like that PDP kit in the picture. Over time, from when I was 16 until 19, I got better heads, better and more cymbals, a better snare, rack, cowbell, better bass pedal and throne as I could afford it. First you learn how to play and keep a simple beat going. As you practice more and more, you will start to discover the sounds you want in a drum or a cymbal and what feels right to you as you play behind a set. Heads are most of a drum's sound. So you can get better heads and tune it right and have some decent sounding drums. (at least for practicing in your room or small gigs.) Cheaper cymbals will always sound cheaper. So if you can is better to shop around (go to MANY stores in person and play MANY cymbals to figure out what cymbals sound good to YOU) Cymbals are kinda like bedding and pillows, what works for you will not work for me and you have to try them out in person to really be able to tell. You may play and like a certain cymbal that is new in the store and then look for that model used (internet, paper, bargin hunters and the like, pawn shops, bulletion boards in music stores, flea markets, etc) You may also find that you really like some Sabian Hats and also a Zildjian ride. Different brands on cymbals is VERY okay. Is why buying the cymbal packs are discouraged. When you buy used, let the seller set the set up for you or let you set it up. Make sure all the parts are there and move right. Play the set if you can. This is how you can see if a wing nut is stripped out, a tom or cymbal stand slides down, all the lugs work on each drum, how the heads sound, etc. Yes you also want to look inside the drums and make sure they not splitting or look wet, etc. Look for rust on chome pieces and things that look like they're missing. Also find out what drum sizes work for YOU. Don't buy a set solely because John Bonham plays one for example. Again Welcome dude and hope this helps! Are many great drummers on here and I respect their opinions, especially on drums. We all started out like you, got our first sets and added on to them or beefed them up, got second and third sets, played a friends or a clubs set, played in high shcool or college band, been in garage bands, gigging and touring bands, test drove all kinds of sets at music stores or conventions for drum makers, read about and studied drums and from on here. PS: is also a few links to sites on here somewhere that shows some basic online lessons. Sorry this is so long...... (Yes, that first set was a Wal-Mart special) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JMR Posted August 28, 2009 Members Share Posted August 28, 2009 I think you picked the crappiest drums and cymbals for that price ail45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AiL45 Posted August 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 29, 2009 lol thx 4 the advice twosticks. and well the guy ended up selling the pcp kit to someone else that offered more. but i did find another listing posted http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/msg/1348351256.html im sent him an email about the mapex kit + pcp boom stand + sabian b8 18", so should be a better investment that the pcp kit correct? prob around the same price as well. or would the remo be a better choice? or maybe this one if i get the price down? http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/msg/1340589950.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SkiAz4Free Posted August 30, 2009 Members Share Posted August 30, 2009 pass on the Remo, go see the Premier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twosticks Posted August 30, 2009 Members Share Posted August 30, 2009 pass on the Remo, go see the Premier. Agreed, Remo's aren't really made anymore and rare to find parts for. Main thing also about Remo guy posting is he seems to have a lot mix match stuff but nothing that really stands out plus it seems those bass drums and some other drums have no bottom heads. The Premier looks like a nice set and about what you're looking for from the music you want to play. Premier's are made in England and don't have a distibutor at this time in the USA (although they used to for many years) so may be hard to find parts for or add ons. BUT if the drums look and sound as good in person as they look on line, THAT would be the set! It really does seem that the guy has taken good care of them He sounds like a drummer and tells it like it is and has good pics from all angles. Plus you have cymbals, a throne, single and double bass pedal, stands etc right off the bat!! Later on you can always add another white floor tom by another brand and no body will be able to notice. Also later on can get more and better cymbals. B8's are not bad cymbals for an entry pack, The cheap cymbals I very first played on (Royce) would dent in after playing one song! Those Premiers look good plus the seller "appears" cool, just might have to add some new heads and boom! Hope this helps......again, play and check out everything before you buy if you can, and if this doesn't work out, are tons more sets for sell. Just like Homes, Cars, Boats, Jet Skis, and Motorcycles, It's a buyer's market but the deals won't come looking for you, always keep looking! Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Targ Posted August 30, 2009 Members Share Posted August 30, 2009 Can i jump in here with a question without de railing the thread? didn't Premier sometimes have oddball head sizes to watch out for?I seem to remember reading that on here once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimmyNZ Posted August 30, 2009 Members Share Posted August 30, 2009 Apk Premier shells are undersize slightly, but standard heads fit fine. It's the old pre-international size kits that run into difficulties.(1950's/60's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Targ Posted August 30, 2009 Members Share Posted August 30, 2009 Apk Premier shells are undersize slightly, but standard heads fit fine. It's the old pre-international size kits that run into difficulties.(1950's/60's) thanks jimmy. Did you guys spot this one> http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/msg/1348276090.html It has most stuff you want and you can either talk him down, or get him to throw in those paiste cymbals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AiL45 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2009 well wasnt talking about the remo kit, i meant the mapex he was offering as well, but i already got a respond from him and its missing 2 many things and its condition isnt that great so im not bothering with it. and kk thx for letting me know the premier is good, im still waiting for a reply though. so no idea on that yet. and targ i would love to get something like that but i cant afford a good setup atm, so if i were to buy a kit it would be a cheap one to get started and learn. so when i have an idea wtf i like and to look for im going to just finance a good setup or slowly upgrade. well if the guy with the premier never answers i sent an email asking about the condition of this pearl kit as well now. i can prob get this for a very decent price, just need 2 also find out what cymbals it brings. http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/msg/1315355184.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AiL45 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 woot finally got a reply from the guy w/ the premier's. says they are in great condition, so im almost certain im gonna go get them. just waiting to see what we work out with price, then gotta drive an hour to pick them up ftl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marko46 Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 I wasn't sure the Premier's were made in England again or not. I thought they weren't, but I may be wrong. I did find this: http://www.premier-percussion.com/catalogue.asp?id=766 So the APK's come in three series. All I know is my 1995 Gennies sound every bit as good as my 2008 Mapex Saturns, just different. But they're warm, loud very defined and sturdy as hell. Regardless, for $400.00 or less if ya get him down you're doing OK. Put some decent heads on 'em, tune 'em up and go at it man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AiL45 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 about the heads, do you upgrade the top only? or also the bottom? or comes with both? does the top have to match the bottom in brand/model? any recommendations on brands? think i read remo ambassador's are good? or is that something i need to hear in person like cymbals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumtechdad Posted September 1, 2009 Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 about the heads, do you upgrade the top only? or also the bottom? or comes with both? Depends on the heads on the kit you buy. If it has relatively new heads you can go ahead and use them and see if you like them. Reso heads (bottom) are very important to the sound, and should be replaced also if the heads you have are old. They last longer than batter heads, however. does the top have to match the bottom in brand/model? They do not have to match in brand, though most guys do. Most guys use a clear 10mil single-ply head for the reso (bottom) no matter what batters (top) they use. But there is a huge variety of batter heads available, and guys go for the sound they want. any recommendations on brands? think i read remo ambassador's are good? First we need to know what kind of sound you're shooting for and what kind of music you want to play. Many drummers use coated Ambassadors (a 10mil single-ply head)--I do so myself--because they sound good and are very versatile. You can play many different kinds of music on them with good results. The major manufacturers all make great heads. They just all sound different. Remo, Evans, Aquarian, Attack, Ludwig. or is that something i need to hear in person like cymbals? Heads are always non-returnable, because playing them--as in, trying them out--puts stick marks on the heads. You have to know what you want first. Once you tell us what kind of music you play you'll get some specific suggestions. What I like to do when I have the itch to try new heads is to buy one or two promising candidates for just one drum, say your 12" tom. That way you can try them out and see which sound you like. Far cheaper than buying a full kit's worth only to discover you don't like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AiL45 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 1, 2009 awesome thanks, makes a lot more sense. okay how about... if i want to play metal like megadeth/pantera/maiden/priest/sabbath/etc i would normally go for which one? what about for blues n classic rock like zeppelin/rolling stones/jimi hendrex/etc? i prob would like to try each one. think i read that a lot of the drummers i like use remo's just no idea what type. also does the same thing about the heads apply to the snare and bass? or those are a little different? also whats the difference in ported and not ported bass drums? thanks again. edit: also think i remember reading something about "stretching" new heads before you start playing it? whats that about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AiL45 Posted September 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2009 well comfirmed, im picking up the Premier setup on saturday. cant wait, gonna be a lot of fun and well was looking around at the remo site and checking out vid clips on youtube, looks like the ambassadors might def be a good set of heads to try out. I think the sizes on the premier are 12, 13, 14, 16, 22 think this might a nice setup? Resonant = (in clear) http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Remo-Drum-Head-Resonant-Pack-121316-Amb-w14-SAHazy-Bottom-Snare-Head?sku=446709 Tom Heads = http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Remo-Black-Suede-Ambassador-Batter-Drumhead?sku=482697 as for snare head wanted to try this one out = http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Remo-Black-X-Batter-Drumhead?sku=482699 and still clueless what to prob go for on the bass heads. maybe http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Remo-Powersonic-Clear-Bass-Drum-Head-?sku=443522 and http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Remo-Ebony-Black-Ambassador-Resonant-Bass-Drumhead?sku=442705 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stapes2260 Posted September 2, 2009 Members Share Posted September 2, 2009 awesome thanks, makes a lot more sense.okay how about... if i want to play metal like megadeth/pantera/maiden/priest/sabbath/etc i would normally go for which one?what about for blues n classic rock like zeppelin/rolling stones/jimi hendrex/etc?i prob would like to try each one.think i read that a lot of the drummers i like use remo's just no idea what type.also does the same thing about the heads apply to the snare and bass? or those are a little different? also whats the difference in ported and not ported bass drums?thanks again.edit:also think i remember reading something about "stretching" new heads before you start playing it? whats that about? Don't bother trying to buy the same heads as the drummers you "like", you are not going to get the exact same sound. There are too many variables (how it was recorded, the room, how they are tuned, etc). Remo makes pretty good heads, but I like Evans better. I've used both on my kits, and Evans seems to hold up better, especially for coated heads. I would suggest getting double ply heads on top and single ply on the bottom. The snare should be a coated head on top, the toms can be clear or coated on top. Double ply heads will hold up to more of a beating, especially when you are new to drumming and have not-so-great technique. If I were you, I'd get Evans G2 for the tops, Evans G1 for the bottoms. For Remo, maybe Emperors on top and ambassadors on bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twosticks Posted September 2, 2009 Members Share Posted September 2, 2009 awesome thanks, makes a lot more sense.okay how about... if i want to play metal like megadeth/pantera/maiden/priest/sabbath/etc i would normally go for which one?what about for blues n classic rock like zeppelin/rolling stones/jimi hendrex/etc?i prob would like to try each one.think i read that a lot of the drummers i like use remo's just no idea what type.also does the same thing about the heads apply to the snare and bass? or those are a little different? also whats the difference in ported and not ported bass drums?thanks again.edit:also think i remember reading something about "stretching" new heads before you start playing it? whats that about? Okay, my opinion, is maybe look into clear or possible coated (white) Remo Pinstripe heads for the toms. The outer ring (outside the graphic pinstripe) is made of antiringing agent (a drop of oil). The all black (or Ebony) heads are sometimes a "one trick pony" meaning they are good for a deep thud sound like in Metallica songs, but are not quite open enough for Led Zep or Hendrix type stuff. To me Pinstripes are easier to tune for a newbie, getting clear or coated allows for more of a range of music and is not ringy. Here is a link about Pinstripes: http://www.remo.com/portal/products/3/8/49/155/cl_pinstripe.html FOr the bass, I would recommend a Remo Powerstroke 3. http://www.remo.com/portal/products/3/8/49/156/cl_powerstroke3.html This may look like a Pinstripe, but it's not, its more like an outer edge of a head over the basic head to quell overtones. Also can stuff the bass with towels or pillows to taste. (notice that the goal is to have very little muffling so that the bass can "BOOM" but in the house, practice room or recording, muffling may be needed to tame the boominess of the bass) this subject is very highly debated within drummers, none to little muffling compared to some to more muffling to focus the sound. On the snare, I might suggest an Aqaurian Studio X, http://www.aquariandrumheads.com/products/display.asp?id=6 or in the case of your older Premier snare a Remo coated ambassodor http://www.remo.com/portal/products/3/8/50/ds_coated.html which tends to give that classic "old school" snare sound. IMO if there is any drum you want to ring, buzz or be more sensitive than the others it's your snare drum. THe snare is the heart of any drumset. The snare is the provider of the beat, from deep and throaty to thin and crispy sound, this really depends on the make (wood or metal) deepness (marching snare deep to thin as in a piccolo snare) the snare make, deepness, quality of snares and finally type of heads all play a part in the snare's sound. Heads are to drums like tires are to a car in a very broad sense. everyone has their preferences models they like. Stretching the head is up for debate as well. Basic point is that either by tightening the head more than tight and then lowering the tightness or by pressing your fist into head while tightening, that it will "seed in" or stretch the head so that it doesn't give more later on and go "flat" as the head sits under tension and you have to tighten and retune more in a few months as the head "stretches". JUst a gun will sound different when fired up close versus from a distance. drums will sound different from 6,12,and 20 feet away. So that nice thud you like from right behind the set will sound like cardboard from a short distance away. this is why some drums are miced and fed through the PA system. A little "rattle and hum" close to the set is good to have a very "live" sounding kit from the rows of tables out in the crowd. Hope this helps. A ported bass will sound more thumpy and less boomy in GENERAL. It depends on the drums, heads, tuning etc. Ported heads are used more to record easier but can always mic the bass from the beater side. I would say don't port at first and then later when you get a cheap bass reso head, make a port in it and then try it for yourself. Ported heads allow for more attack but non ported heads allow for more "boominess"in GENERAL. In closing, you will be okay to start replacing the batter heads first to get the tone you want and then as figure out more of the sound you want, you can shop for resos. Getting bettter resos will make a difference, but first, deal with what you have and listen to more and more drummers. Hope this helps..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twosticks Posted September 2, 2009 Members Share Posted September 2, 2009 thanks jimmy.Did you guys spot this one> http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/msg/1348276090.htmlIt has most stuff you want and you can either talk him down, or get him to throw in those paiste cymbals? This set is VERY nice as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AiL45 Posted September 2, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2009 awesome man that helps a lot. as for changing heads/tuning, from all i've been looking seems to me this was the best explanation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbw_KcJ7_to&feature=channel_page http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPpRkhc2yd0&feature=channel but damn drums looks seem like a bitch to tune compared to guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twosticks Posted September 3, 2009 Members Share Posted September 3, 2009 You're welcome. yes drums can be a pain to tune and sound right. There is a science to it. It gets easier as you do it but there more you learn and play it, it gets easier. To me, tuning a guitar is difficult, because I'm not used to hearing the difference between the octaves with strings and how to tune one string up or down without throwing the thing out of whack. Yes the videos you linked show a very basic, no frills approach which is quite useful. Like he was showing, that will get you into the ballpark of basic tuning and as you play and tune more, the more you will be able to tune by ear. This is also where the better made entry line sets, nice used sets play a part, they are easier to tune, stay in tune and mostly don't have mount and hardware problems. That first set you linked and others like it usually have lugs that strip, wallow out from the shell or fall apart all together. Remo, Evans, and Aquarian are really the big three of the head makers and each one of them are good heads. ANd as you can see, each maker has many diffferent styles of heads to choose from. Hopefully now you can see why it's important to see each set in person and pick out what is right for you. But at the same time as a newbie, you can always take almost any set and make it your own. With your limited budget and just starting out, just start somewhere the best that you can and go from there. Don't wait for that "perfect" set with everthing right off the bat. Just like learning guitar. It's that entry level, but better than most set that let's you practice and learn how to gain your chops on that helps you decide what you really want when you have serious money to spend. But also remember that thousands of dollars in the best drums doesn't mean perfect drums, You can still have a killer sound without dropping buckets of cash. Start shopping and forming your own opinions and come back and chat and let us know what works for you. Also you have to show us pics and tell us stories about what set you do get. We love that kind of stuff! Keep on looking and remember drums are fun! Don't get bogged down in the details too much. A good drummer with just a practice pad and good rythem can blow a high priced drummer with the latest equipment out the water. Good luck my friend and welcome to the cool guys, the drummers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumtechdad Posted September 3, 2009 Members Share Posted September 3, 2009 These links on tuning are good for beginners: Tuning toms Tuning snares Tuning bass drums Why reso heads are important Reducing snare buzz and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AiL45 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 3, 2009 yea man, you have no idea how glad i am that i decided to post here before i wasted my money on the s/p setup. the preimer set is def gonna be nicer and also saved me a lot of money. also all the replies have helped a ton, and getting a lot of info i never knew before or prob wouldnt learn on my own for a long time. i should pass by guitar center to pick up a cheap throne and a practice pad this weekend, so gonna explore the drum section for the 1st time while im at it lol n thx for the links, ill check them out when i get home later tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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