I hate cracking cymbals

[AllanGuy]

So a couple of weeks ago I cracked my china, which normally wouldn't be too big of a deal, but being in a metal band, I use it for more than just accents, so the crack really lowered the volume and the power I wanted from it. It was just a Wuhan 18" that lasted me over a year, so it was a cheap fix, and I scraped together enough cash to replace it, and also get new tom heads and some drum sticks. Well last week I discovered a horizontal crack in one of my other cymbals, this time in a Zildjian A 18" Medium Crash. It's a fairly big and thick cymbal, and I honestly got it thinking, this will be pretty hard to crack. That cymbal was bought used, so I didn't pay too much, but this really sucks. Funny thing is, is that my thinner 17" A Custom Crash has lasted me 2 or 3 years now and is still sounding great, but I bought that one new.

 

I guess what I'm asking is, how much does buying used/new effect what the life of the cymbal will be, and how much does the size/thickness effect the life of the cymbal?

 

I also noticed that the A Medium crash has more definitive and deeper lathing (i think that's the term) grooves than the A Custom does, does this play a part in cracking?

 

I guess I should probably just watch and make sure I'm using right cymbal technique.

[Greg_L]

 

I guess I should probably just watch and make sure I'm using right cymbal technique.

 

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^

 

But be careful, mentioning technique pisses people off in here.

[AllanGuy]

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^ But be careful, mentioning technique pisses people off in here.

 

 

Ha, I just think it's odd that my oldest, thinnest, most hit crash is the one that has lasted the longest, and I bought it new. Maybe it's because I didn't have some other basher's technique hitting it for the first half of it's life?

 

Heck, even my 10" splash has outlasted some of my crashes, and I am definitely not gentle with it.

[zildjian@consol]

hey ,long time no see,......It could be technique,but it sounds like you don't crack cymbals too offend.Could be just the cymbal.

[FitchFY]

I guess what I'm asking is, how much does buying used/new effect what the life of the cymbal will be, and how much does the size/thickness effect the life of the cymbal? I also noticed that the A Medium crash has more definitive and deeper lathing (i think that's the term) grooves than the A Custom does, does this play a part in cracking? I guess I should probably just watch and make sure I'm using right cymbal technique.

 

All of this adds up, man, and good on you for recognizing it. Used cymbals... well, you don't know what the previous life was. A cymbal may look fine, but if the guy who owned it walloped it for two years then buffed it up and sold it, you may be buying a plate with a limited life in it. That's the reality of "the risk of buying used."

 

Theoretically, a thicker cymbal should last longer, but they're made for people who hit harder, and they have less give. In my experience, the thickness of the cymbal and how hard the owner hits is is proportionate to how long it lasts. I.e. I'm not basher, but someday my medium crash will crack, but not as soon as a thinner one does for me, and after the dude with 2Bs goes to town on his Z Customs.

 

And yes, of course... technique.

[the DW]

I'd also say that the cymbal was probably cracked or on the verge of cracking when you bought it.

[cearleywine]

When playing hard and playing through a cymbal any can crack at anytime. I had both an 18" A medium, and an 18" A custom in my punk years. My A custom cracked and the A lived on. Smiley cracks are usually from hard downward blows, try practicing glancing hits.

[6topher]

This thread title reminded of oil can scene in "The Jerk".

 

"Hey, These cymbals are defective"

[1001gear]

Here's another slomo. It's easy to see a couple things at least would come into play. With all the contortions, cymbal bow and thickness are probably primary factors if not the culprits.

 

zssXukkKoWM

 

Appears to be a soft hit too.

[turdadactyl]

Unless someone plays 100+ shows a year, when they tell me they've cracked more than one cymbal I always come to the conclusion that it's a combination of:

 

1) Technique - cymbals don't need to be bashed inside out.

 

2) Over-tightening - If your wing nut is cranked tight and you hit the cymbal it has no place to "ride the punch." It's gonna break.

[jenksdrummer]

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^ But be careful, mentioning technique pisses people off in here.

 

 

Yeah, because it's a cop-out answer.

[WhiplashBand]

That vid was trippy 1k1

[Greg_L]

 

Yeah, because it's a cop-out answer.

 

 

See what I mean? ^^^^^^^^^

 

Pissy.

[jenksdrummer]

If you guys are impressed with that, you need to see this video...especially considering it's the new drummer for Dream Theater...lol

 

[video=youtube;w8Gxut0odyc]

[Voltan]

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^ But be careful, mentioning technique pisses people off in here.

 

 

tell ya what, i disagree with just about everything greg has to say but he is exactly on the mark with this... not necessarily that mentioning technique pisses people off (although it appears it did that too), but the simple fact that metal reacts to stress in a particular way... it's a matter of simple physics... if you strike a cymbal straight on, especially without the cymbal being "warmed up" or already vibrating, it causes a hell of a lot more stress on the metal thus causing metal fatigue which will shorten the lifespan of any cymbal despite thickness... blah blah... a glancing strike across the surface of the cymbal achieves the same result in sound without the abuse to the cymbal and thus much longer life... all things being the same and not accounting for imperfections of the cymbal to begin with... proper technique is the key...

[Greg_L]

tell ya what, i disagree with just about everything greg has to say

 

That's not true. We're best internet buddies.

[AllanGuy]

 

hey ,long time no see,......It could be technique,but it sounds like you don't crack cymbals too offend.Could be just the cymbal.

 

 

Ya, it has been a while, I'm surprised anyone even remembers me. Don't worry, I didn't stop drumming, just coming to the site.

[danrothmusic]

 

2) Over-tightening - If your wing nut is cranked tight and you hit the cymbal it has no place to "ride the punch." It's gonna break.

 

 

Yeah, this is a good point. Do you crank down on the wing nuts?

 

Sorry for your loss, man

[formula428]

Technique aside, I've heard (through a life-long drummer that runs a local drum shop) that...

 

Smaller cymbals are easier to break - his theory was that smaller cymbals provide less area to dissipate the force, so therefore more stress is in the cymbal. Let's go back to Engineering 101, stress = force / area, so it makes sense.

 

Extremely (or "paper") thin cymbals are easy to break for obvious reasons, but so are thicker cymbals. Now, I would never buy a Z Custom because I think they sound awful, and maybe it has to do with the fact that most who own Z Customs (and other heavy cymbals) play aggressive music that often lends to hard hitting. The owner's insight was that thicker cymbals are inherently more rigid, so they do not allow enough distortion and "give" when struck. Of course, paper thin cymbals allow too much.

 

But, it's interesting to see that in my collection of crashes (all 4 of them!) - 18" thin armand, 18" thin A, 15" A custom, 14" A Custom...the 14 and 15 both broke after being about 4 years old. Meanwhile, the 18" thin A has held up for 10 years. The 18" thin armand is much newer, but has held up fine for 3 years.

 

Oh yea, and I don't even use top felts for my cymbals. I get the long plastic washer-sleeve protectors and just put the wing to that. They have 2 different lengths, which will leave me between 1/2" and nearly 1" for the cymbal to "move" when struck. (look at the 18" above the 8" tom in the top left of the photo). This exception to this is my two 6" splashes and rides.

 

[AllanGuy]

Nope, I don't screw the nuts down too much. In fact, my wing nuts often unscrew themselves and fall off during practice, and my china goes nuts when I hit it.

[1001gear]

 

Nope, I don't screw the nuts down too much. In fact, my wing nuts often unscrew themselves and fall off during practice, and my china goes nuts when I hit it.

 

 

I'm way ahead of you guise. I don't even use wing nuts. Aquarium hose and an 8m nut. Cymbal goes on and off as you please. Everything stays put.

[formula428]

I dunno if I'd care too much for not having any type of large wing nut on the boom/stand, although it's a good idea nonetheless. I guess you'd just have to make sure that there was enough length above the cymbal, such that the cymbal could NEVER fly off the stand!

[drumz4hire]

 

Nope, I don't screw the nuts down too much. In fact, my wing nuts often unscrew themselves and fall off during practice, and my china goes nuts when I hit it.

 

 

 

I had the opposite problem with an old stand, cracked one once because my wing nut would tighten itself down as I played

 

It was a freebie cymbal anyhow..so I gave it to my singers 11yo son