Members Fluke Posted October 21, 2011 Members Share Posted October 21, 2011 What does everyone here think about using a "regular" thickness head as the bottom head on a snare, rather than one of those super thin purpose made snare side heads? I just recently changed the bottom head of my super cheap 14x5 snare to one, and while it was less than satisfactory either way, it really improved the warmth of the sound quite a bit, as well as reducing snare buzz and ringing problems. But i'm curious about how common this is among you "real" drummers on here and what you think about it.... after all there was only one head thickness available back in the day, before synthetic heads - or am i wrong about that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vinniewannabe Posted October 21, 2011 Members Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well, sound is totally subjective. If you like that particular sound coming out of that drum with that head on the snare side, then by all means, keep it there. Personally, I'd never want that sound. I like my snare drum to ring and be loud and crispy. Putting on an ambassador-weight head on the bottom is going to prevent that from happening. The reason for thinner ply heads on the snare side is so the snares have a chance to vibrate...after all, that is the sound they are suppose to make. The thicker the head, the more 'thuddy' it's going to sound - it doesn't let the snares do its job. 'Thuddy' is not 'warmth'. There is sympathic snare-buzz vibration in almost every snare drum...and it's not a bad thing unless it's uncontrollable. It usually gets uncontrollable if the snare strainer is not tight enough against the head or the drum is horridly out of tune. I have found guys with problems with this don't tighten the bottom head enough. Tighten that sucker up. Putting on a drumhead to aleviate snare drum buzz or overtone problems tend to lack tuning skills. There is a reason why 98% of drummers don't put thicker heads on the snare side. It just doesn't work well. A snare is not a tom. You CAN do it tho if you like, there is noone telling you you can't. Well, just ME.....but I am a nobody. Don't do it ! Don't do it! forallthatisgoodandmighty!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danrothmusic Posted October 21, 2011 Members Share Posted October 21, 2011 I've never tried it, but it sounds like an interesting idea. I currently have a snare with a pinstripe on one side and an Attack coated 1-ply on the other. I don't have snares for it, but I think when I get them I'll try using the Attack as the reso. I don't know about the history of drum heads, but that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 Well, sound is totally subjective. If you like that particular sound coming out of that drum with that head on the snare side, then by all means, keep it there.Personally, I'd never want that sound. I like my snare drum to ring and be loud and crispy. Putting on an ambassador-weight head on the bottom is going to prevent that from happening. The reason for thinner ply heads on the snare side is so the snares have a chance to vibrate...after all, that is the sound they are suppose to make. The thicker the head, the more 'thuddy' it's going to sound - it doesn't let the snares do its job. 'Thuddy' is not 'warmth'.There is sympathic snare-buzz vibration in almost every snare drum...and it's not a bad thing unless it's uncontrollable. It usually gets uncontrollable if the snare strainer is not tight enough against the head or the drum is horridly out of tune. I have found guys with problems with this don't tighten the bottom head enough. Tighten that sucker up. Putting on a drumhead to aleviate snare drum buzz or overtone problems tend to lack tuning skills. There is a reason why 98% of drummers don't put thicker heads on the snare side. It just doesn't work well. A snare is not a tom. You CAN do it tho if you like, there is noone telling you you can't. Well, just ME.....but I am a nobody. Don't do it ! Don't do it! forallthatisgoodandmighty!! That's about the sum of it. Personally wouldn't go there for all the above reasons.Also, in my experience, if the use of an Ambassador or similar weight batter head on the reso side of a snare drum IMPROVES the sound...something else was wrong in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ThePloughman Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 Duct tape will do just as good. And it is cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cearleywine Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 I've tried it on a cheap metal snare, just experimenting. Sounded terrible, very boxy, dull, and severely lacked sensitivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 next Q, Anybody tried or know of a "shaker" snare? Tiny beads instead of wires. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cearleywine Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 Dump a bunch of BB's in your vent hole and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 Ouch.Just sayin' if you could get it to work you might get a crisp maybe more sustained [onomatopoeia for snare tone here] sound. Great rimshots etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 sound. Great rimshots etc... No, you wouldn't get a sustained sound, you'd get lots of little staccato sounds, as every time you hit the drum, those little beads would launch off the reso head at differing velocities, some bouncing off the underside of the batter, etc., and they would then land/bounce on the reso at different points as well. One big sound, then lots of little 'echo' sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 No, you wouldn't get a sustained sound, you'd get lots of little staccato sounds, as every time you hit the drum, those little beads would launch off the reso head at differing velocities, some bouncing off the underside of the batter, etc., and they would then land/bounce on the reso at different points as well.One big sound, then lots of little 'echo' sounds. Yeah in the vent hole maybe. What I pictured was some kind of internal grid - the loose bead equivalent of a DynaSonic frame or failing that, parallel strands of tiny beads instead of wire. Externally of course. The internal ones at least might hiss for a bit longer than wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Carminemw Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 Bonham used an Ambassador on the bottom of the 402...but he hit it very hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yeah in the vent hole maybe. What I pictured was some kind of internal grid - the loose bead equivalent of a DynaSonic frame or failing that, parallel strands of tiny beads instead of wire. Externally of course.The internal ones at least might hiss for a bit longer than wire. wonder how tight you can get those lamp pull chains. that's kinda what i see from your explanation. seems heavy, tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fusionfunk Posted October 22, 2011 Members Share Posted October 22, 2011 parallel strands of tiny beads instead of wire. Externally of course.The internal ones at least might hiss for a bit longer than wire. I wonder how "pull chain", you know, the kind on a ceiling fan, [with the little balls connected by links], would sound like, instead of snare wire? EDIT: Sorry cdawg, I didn't see your post. You beat me to it. I posted while reading 1001's post, and never got to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 you bastard, ff!! i want my credit!! (send any money made on this idea to me.) lends to another question:what are the pros and cons to tighter and looser snares? i've heard of choking the snare with snares that are too tight. which leads me to ask, why not put the snares on the inside of the drum? you could still access them thru slits in the drum. and the snare tension wouldn't have to be as tight. what am i missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 Specially made pull chains maybe. I wa thinking suspended but somewhat free floating beads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SYMBOLIC Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 "why not put the snares on the inside of the drum? you could still access them thru slits in the drum." They do have this on some marching snares, underneath the batter head, and a set in the normal place. I don't know what it would do to put it on the inside on the bottom head. I think it could cause an issue on the bottom bearing edge, but I don't know for sure about this. I know that if it didn't have a snare bed it would be a buzzier snare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 Snares is the issue though. I was thinkling more like sand in a shaker but with crispy snare tone. Anybody out there with a sampler? Try a good solid rimshot with a shaker component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fluke Posted October 23, 2011 Author Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 You're more or less reinventing the DAF here... [video=youtube;GNFHEtWz4Pg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNFHEtWz4Pg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 They do have this on some marching snares, underneath the batter head, and a set in the normal place. I don't know what it would do to put it on the inside on the bottom head. I think it could cause an issue on the bottom bearing edge good point. thanks for the daf vid, fluke. never saw that before. that'd be a cool way to attach pull chains. an' just let 'em rest on the inside, bottom head. then you could just clip off balls to shorten them to lessen the effect. looks like i'm gonna find a cheap metal snare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 That's a really cool sound. Very airy for all the metalwork on it; almost like brush work. Shakers suspended inside a snare drum would work - maybe made of metal or hard plastic instead of wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zon5string Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 Bonham used an Ambassador on the bottom of the 402...but he hit it very hard! Carm, I'm pretty sure that his "Ambassador" was a hazy Ambassador snare-side head, not the same as a batter. Jeff Ocheltree details his kit & tuning in this video, and mentions that Bonham used coated Emperors on the batter sides of most everything, and usually an Ambassador, but sometimes a Diplomat, on the snare side. Check it at just after the 2:00 mark... [video=youtube;_mrNjz_U0ZM] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danrothmusic Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 then you could just clip off balls I did that to the cats, they weren't too happy about it. Why not try it with the snare you just sprayed rubber it? I don't see how snares inside the drum would affect the bearing edge. Don't the straps (or strings, depending) rest on the edge anyways? How would it be different on the other side of the head? Also, I think a snare bed would help, and I don't think many snares are made without beds. That Daf is pretty cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdawg Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 Why not try it with the snare you just sprayed rubber it? its a nice lookin' snare and i'd like a good back-up. think i'll look for a cheapy on craigs for this project. i'm already thinking to do the same spray technique and then drill holes around the bottom perimeter, then riveting clasps to the metal shell to accept the pull chain balls that will just lay on the inside of the bottom head. (maybe i'll drill 1 1/2" holes in the shell to control the ring instead of the spray, as someone suggested.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted October 23, 2011 Members Share Posted October 23, 2011 I don't see how snares inside the drum would affect the bearing edge. Don't the straps (or strings, depending) rest on the edge anyways? How would it be different on the other side of the head? Also, I think a snare bed would help, and I don't think many snares are made without beds. The bearing edge is why the snares on the OUTSIDE resonate on the outer surface of the head. If you had snare wires inside, pulled via straps at the bearing edge, the effect would be to pull the snares AWAY from the inner surface of the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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