Members NashSG Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 Hello all, I'm looking for some feedback on various PA power amps for use in a higher powered bass rig. My current live setup is as follows: Fender Jazz Boss TunerTech 21 Bass Sansamp (pedal one) -- set with a variation of SVT preset.Hartke 3500Hartke VX410 This has been enough power to hold my own for a couple of years, but I am now working with two guitarists with big stacks (JCM800 & Triple Rec.), so I would like a bit more boom to be able to hold my own. My first step is to get a PA power amp and a rack, as I have a nice ART tube compressor that I think would work really well in this new rig and to start use the Sansamp as the pre. The brands of power amp that I have been considering are Crown, QSC and Yamaha. Anyone with background and feedback on their different models or perhaps some I haven't considered would be great. I'd like to pair this power amp with one of the high powered Avatar or Eden 4x10 cabs, most likely the Avatar B410Pro. At least in the short run, I will have a second Hartke 4x10 to use from one of my guitarists. After getting my cab and power setup, I will look into getting a rack mounted preamp and tuner. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members speddling Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 I use a Crown CE1000 cause the price was right... does it's job fine. My ex-band we used a qsc RMX2450 and it was great for a PA. If I wanted the best, I'd get a Crest C9 or C6.... IMHO/E. Watch the QSC for bass rigs, they have their input sensitivity set for PA stuff and a lot of bass preamps don't put out enough signal to drive them to full output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rippin' Robin Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 I'd say ditch the BDDI and get the SansAmp RBI, which'll do the same thing WITH a mid control and make the most out of your poweramp because its output is hotter. IMHO, replacing the Hartke with a better cabinet will make you much louder in the first place anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rovito Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 I used to use a Crown MT 1200 with killer results. Also had an Crown XLS602 that worked well at half the price and half the weight, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sixgun77 Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 No comment on the Hartke stuff. QSC has decent stuff for the price. Crown is probably a little better quality though. Right now I'm running a QSC 1450 which is 300 per side if I remember correctly. If you want tons of power to compete with 2 guitars I'd say the QSC RMX 2450 is a good deal considering price, power, and sound quality. I think it's 750 watts per side. I don't see how you'd need more than that for stage volume, let the PA do the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1tallbassguy Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by Rippin' Robin I'd say ditch the BDDI and get the SansAmp RBI, which'll do the same thing WITH a mid control and make the most out of your poweramp because its output is hotter. IMHO, replacing the Hartke with a better cabinet will make you much louder in the first place anyway. Is the RBI truly a preamp? Is it designed to be used as a preamp? I may be looking around for a used preamp, and so I wondered about that. I thought it was a glorified DI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rippin' Robin Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by 1tallbassguy Is the RBI truly a preamp? Is it designed to be used as a preamp? I may be looking around for a used preamp, and so I wondered about that. I thought it was a glorified DI. It's dedicated 19" pre-amp, transformer balanced DI and tube emulator with speaker emulator, and yeah it'll drive the power amp @ +4dB, which is what the amp expects to put out full volume. I've been using it in my rack setup with absolutely no problems for the past 3 years now, and the output's as hot as it comes. My rig is so awfully loud that my fullstack 5150 guitarists regularly ask me to turn down. HA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slagbass Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 Should also consider the weight of the amp for a bass rig. The QSC PLX series are about half the weight of the RMX series. A nice comparison table is shown here: http://www.directproaudio.com/shop/amplifiers/guide/AmpComparison.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 Depends on how much you wanna carry. If you want good tone, and an ultra-portable rack, go for a Stewart 1.2, 1.6 or 2.1. For good tone, a bit more juice, and not too much weight, check out the QSC PLX line, like a 3002 or 3402. But yeah, you do have to check their sensitivity ratings, etc.. I was reading that like only Demeter and maybe one other preamp has a high enough voltage output to match them correctly, in order to make it run efficiently as possible (good thing I have one! ). If you want, check over at TB and hit up Bob Lee, who works for QSC and has all the answers you could want about their amps to see if your setup would work out really well. The general consensus, if weight is no issue, is to go Crest, with either a CA-6 or CA-9. My only shtick is, the damn things weigh more than my cab! So, for onstage monitoring purposes only, it's up to you. I run my Demeter VTBP-201s to the mixer, so only that sound goes FOH, and no mic'd signal, so my choice in power amp (which is still pending) is just something lightweight and portable, which is why for now, I'm going Stewart 1.2 to power my Schroeder 1210. The Demeter has so much tone, you could put like an old Fenfer 200-watter behind it and it'd still rock out most much anything else. It's pretty damn spectacular. Comparing this to the old Sansamp RBI I used to have is pretty laughable, actually. I didn't know pre's could sound this good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NashSG Posted May 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 I'll probably look into getting a better preamp after getting a power amp and a new cab. A local amp builder named Bob Burriss is making a tube rack mount bass pre-amp I would like to eventually try out. I've had good luck with my Sansamp, but I don't doubt that something with some tubes and a well constructed signal path would even be better. My thinking on power amp wattage was going for something 300-500 watts per side that could be bridged to somewhere between 600-1000 watts. I'll start comparing the models everyone has mentioned. Thanks for the feedback. I'm wanting compact and powerful, which is why I am looking at those Avatar 4x10s with the Eminence speakers. Those things can handle some wattage and are not like moving a fridge. I'd like to keep the rack at 6 spaces: one space for a pre, two or three for a power amp, one space for my compressor and maybe one open space above the power amp. Hopefully I can put that together and have it around 50 pounds or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mudbass Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by RockStarBassist ...if weight is no issue, is to go Crest, with either a CA-6 or CA-9. +1 If your back has priority over your sound go with a Stewart or PLX, but if it's all about the sound, the Crest CA series amps kick assimus maximus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by speddling If I wanted the best, I'd get a Crest C9 or C6.... IMHO/E. You humble opinion is right on the $. C6 is my recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by NashSG I'll probably look into getting a better preamp after getting a power amp and a new cab. A local amp builder named Bob Burriss is making a tube rack mount bass pre-amp I would like to eventually try out. I've had good luck with my Sansamp, but I don't doubt that something with some tubes and a well constructed signal path would even be better.My thinking on power amp wattage was going for something 300-500 watts per side that could be bridged to somewhere between 600-1000 watts. I'll start comparing the models everyone has mentioned. Thanks for the feedback.I'm wanting compact and powerful, which is why I am looking at those Avatar 4x10s with the Eminence speakers. Those things can handle some wattage and are not like moving a fridge.I'd like to keep the rack at 6 spaces: one space for a pre, two or three for a power amp, one space for my compressor and maybe one open space above the power amp. Hopefully I can put that together and have it around 50 pounds or so. I am a little confused, are you wanting only one cab for your rig? If so you are looking at way too much power. With one cab only look for a good mono poweramp, you don't need a huge dual channel poweramp. If you want to end up with more than one cab eventually, I would suggest the Avatar 212 as a starting point, and later put the 210 on top of it. A 500 watt/ side poweramp with that combination would handle anything, including two loud guitards. Not only that but the whole rig would be much easier to haul around than a 410 or two. Also, I have a six place rack and would much rather have a seperate rack for the poweramp, as a 50 pound rack is a huge pain itself to haul around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NashSG Posted May 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 I haven't seen too many mono power amps, it seems that most will bridge that way, but most seem to be stereo. I'm basing the power amp needs looking at this Avatar and going by the power handling of this 4x10, as it can hand a bookoo amount of wattage. "The new front ported B410 Kappa PRO features four MONSTROUS Eminence Kappa PRO ten inch bass speakers and a Foster High Frequency Horn Tweeter for unbelievable bass response!! The American made Eminence Kappa PRO tens have huge 80 oz. magnets, large 3 inch voice coils, and a lightweight die cast aluminum basket for extra rigidity. These Kappa PRO tens have a lower frequency response than our previous popular B410 delta bass cab. Each Kappa PRO ten inch speaker is rated at 500 watts RMS." I figure it would weigh around 50 pounds figure is 25 pounds or so for the power amp, 10-15 or so for the rack itself and a few more for the preamp and compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by NashSG I haven't seen too many mono power amps, it seems that most will bridge that way, but most seem to be stereo. I'm basing the power amp needs looking at this Avatar and going by the power handling of this 4x10, as it can hand a bookoo amount of wattage. "The new front ported B410 Kappa PRO features four MONSTROUS Eminence Kappa PRO ten inch bass speakers and a Foster High Frequency Horn Tweeter for unbelievable bass response!! The American made Eminence Kappa PRO tens have huge 80 oz. magnets, large 3 inch voice coils, and a lightweight die cast aluminum basket for extra rigidity. These Kappa PRO tens have a lower frequency response than our previous popular B410 delta bass cab. Each Kappa PRO ten inch speaker is rated at 500 watts RMS." I figure it would weigh around 50 pounds figure is 25 pounds or so for the power amp, 10-15 or so for the rack itself and a few more for the preamp and compressor. 25lbs. ain't gonna getcha a Crest. All PLX's are 21lbs, with the Stewarts even less. If you want just one do-all cab, I say save on the amp and getcha somethin' that pushes about 1500w bridged. Or just go all out and get a PLX 3402! Headroom, headroom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MikeMess Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by NashSG I'll probably look into getting a better preamp after getting a power amp and a new cab. A local amp builder named Bob Burriss is making a tube rack mount bass pre-amp I would like to eventually try out. I've had good luck with my Sansamp, but I don't doubt that something with some tubes and a well constructed signal path would even be better. I have a SansAmp RBI that I'm looking at trading for a BDDI + cash. I used to use the RBI in a modular rack rig, but have since purchased a Genz-Benz GBE600. I could use the BDDI as a small rig and effects pedal should I want some more grit. Anyways, send me a PM if you're interested in discussing a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 23, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by RockStarBassist 25lbs. ain't gonna getcha a Crest. All PLX's are 21lbs, with the Stewarts even less. If you want just one do-all cab, I say save on the amp and getcha somethin' that pushes about 1500w bridged. Or just go all out and get a PLX 3402! Headroom, headroom... Recone, recone... Despite what you may read and want to believe, 500 watts of bass into a 10" speaker will not last long. The coil will handle 500w but the driver will fail mechanically. L-1329 is on the right track. More power will not help if you don't have enough good speakers to deliver it. Read up on power compression...there's a limit to the usefullness of extra power, and the further you venture into the world of diminishing returns, the closer to are to Recone City. And none of this addresses the fundamental issue....attempting to compete with a pair of Marshall stacks in a stage-volume war. Even IF you win, your band will still sound like ass since the vocals can't possibly be mixed with all that stage volume bleeding into the vocal mics. If you want loud, get a good PA, get the guitarists to use Power Brakes, and get the whole backline into the PA. And don't accept the money excuse...if they can afford Marshall and Mesa, they can afford decent PA, whether bought or rented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members leepmeister Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by Rippin' Robin I'd say ditch the BDDI and get the SansAmp RBI, which'll do the same thing WITH a mid control and make the most out of your poweramp because its output is hotter. +1 I've been using an RBI into a QSC RMX1450 into a GenzBenz 410T-XB and it works pretty darn well. Although I want to ditch it for a GBE600 The RMX's aren't light tho...mine's like 43 pounds I think. Stewarts are crazy light, but only have banana outputs I think. And PLX's are light but expensive... *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted May 23, 2005 Members Share Posted May 23, 2005 If you rob a few liquor stores.... 1400 watt advanced technology amplifier with 700 watts (rms) per channel at 2 ohms, 500 watts (rms) at 4 ohms 375 watts (rms) per channel at 8 ohms 1400 watts (rms) bridge mode at 4 ohms LED status and level indicators Digital DDT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rippin' Robin Posted May 24, 2005 Members Share Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by lug If you rob a few liquor stores.... 1400 watt advanced technology amplifier with 700 watts (rms) per channel at 2 ohms, 500 watts (rms) at 4 ohms 375 watts (rms) per channel at 8 ohms 1400 watts (rms) bridge mode at 4 ohms LED status and level indicators Digital DDT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted May 24, 2005 Members Share Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by lug If you rob a few liquor stores.... 1400 watt advanced technology amplifier with 700 watts (rms) per channel at 2 ohms, 500 watts (rms) at 4 ohms 375 watts (rms) per channel at 8 ohms 1400 watts (rms) bridge mode at 4 ohms LED status and level indicators Digital DDT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mistermike Posted May 24, 2005 Members Share Posted May 24, 2005 I use a Yamaha P2500S. Nice clean power with all the bells and whistles. My only complaint is it's only rated to run 8 ohms bridged. I've run it wide open with two 8 ohm loads in stereo. Plenty of volume and no clipping, but it's not something I do regularly. The price new is steep new but if you find one slightly used you can get one for about $350-375. If you just want straight forward power, I think there are better values to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted May 24, 2005 Members Share Posted May 24, 2005 Originally posted by Rippin' Robin Yeah, I have the DPC750. Didn't rob a liquour store though, I sold my old power amp for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MageZ Posted May 24, 2005 Members Share Posted May 24, 2005 Looks like I need the DPC1400.....then I will have the most expen(i)sive Peavey gear on this board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted May 24, 2005 Members Share Posted May 24, 2005 How much are those Peavey's, anyhow? I've seen them referred to on many occasions, and could be a nice alternative to a Stewart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.