Members Thunderbroom Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 I've thought about this off and on for a few years now. I was cleaning the endless stream of mail off my desk this morning and ran across a letter from Old Dominion University (Norfolk, VA). I remember ODU back from my Navy days and time spent in Norfolk. Curiosity got the best of me, so I opened it instead of shredding it. It seems that ODU has partnered with a community college near mine (35 miles away) and is offering a PhD in Community College Leadership via distance education. Link As most of you know, I teach at a community college and have been doing so for about 8 years. I love my job but am not naive enough to think that I've got a job forever. Many two-year schools across the country are doing away with many of their occupational programs. It's much more economical to offer more English or Math courses instead of offering capital-intensive hands-on programs. It hasn't happened here yet, but that doesn't mean it won't. I've searched around the country and can't really find many schools that offer programs like mine. I'm thinking I may actually pursue this. I should be able to use some of the courses for salary advancement at the college where I work. Completing the program could open some doors that are currently closed to me. Going back to school really doesn't appeal to me though. I'm trying to think long-term though. If I were to lose my job at the college, I could always return to industry and work with my hands again, but I don't want to go that route. I've yet to discuss this with my wife. Each class will run about $1100 which is not cheap but not nearly as expensive as some schools. Not really sure why I started this thread. I guess because I share so much other crap about my life that this is just another chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members greenshag Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 I say go for it...you will be gaining more tools to make you viable in your particular profession, and will earm more money on top of it in the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnny6644 Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Always choose becoming more smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Retrovertigo Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 go for it, sounds like it would be a good investment of your time and money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Hell yeah, all of the cool kids go to ODU. I'll be there this spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by burdizzos Hell yeah, all of the cool kids go to ODU. I'll be there this spring. I sent you an email about it earlier today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members y-o-y Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 more education will always make you a more valuable commodity. My wife is just now wrapping up her Masters degree in marriage and family therapy and her clinical supervisors are strongly urging her to go for a doctorate level degree because the psychotherapy landscape is changing so much right now. it is a very real possibility that her masters degree may prove to be virtually useless in her field in just 3-5 years. sounds like you may be in a similar situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 6, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by y-o-y ....her clinical supervisors are strongly urging her to go for a doctorate level degree because the psychotherapy landscape is changing so much right now. it is a very real possibility that her masters degree may prove to be virtually useless in her field in just 3-5 years. How would a Master's be useless, but the Doctorate not, in 3-5 years? This is the stuff that continues to baffle me about the state of education systems in the US today. Sounds more like a money-mill process than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom I sent you an email about it earlier today. Hotmail is disabled from work. Bastards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members y-o-y Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv How would a Master's be useless, but the Doctorate not, in 3-5 years? This is the stuff that continues to baffle me about the state of education systems in the US today. Sounds more like a money-mill process than anything else. This is somewhat unique to field of clinical psychology. there are several competing diciplines (Marriage and Family Therapists, Social Workers, Licensed Clinical Counselors, School counselors, etc.) that each have thier own Masters level degree and are all competing for basically the same jobs/clients. the one group that is currently pretty well protected are the psychiatrists who are the only ones that have the ability to perscribe drugs for treatment. there is a relatively strong movement that is pushing to allow PH.d's and Psy.D's to to write prescriptions. If/when this happens, licensed professionals with Doctorate level degrees become much more attractive to patients and insurance companies as a one-stop-shop for mental health...no more need to go to a pshyciatrist just for meds and a therapist/counselor for therapy. the bottom line is that this is a problem that is, in part a function of the US education system as you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yools Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 As someone with a Ph.D., I'll offer my $0.02US based on my own experience (YMMV): - don't think of a Ph.D. as a way to get more money; think of it as a way to get more opportunities. A Ph.D. usually isn't worth the investment in terms of increased earning potential, but it does open lots of opportunities to you that you wouldn't otherwise have (like university faculty/administration position, expert witness testimony, NGO leadership positions, etc). If your sole reason is to get more money in the long run, that may work out, but you'll probably be disappointed. If your goal is to get a career that you like and enjoy doing, then go for it. - I am always wary about non-traditional programs. That is not to say that this program is just a diploma mill; the fact that it requires a dissertation shows that it is a serious program. You may want to talk to faculty in the program, and other people who could be potential employers in the future, to see what sort of demand there is for individuals with this degree. My feeling is that community colleges are only going to become more important in the upcoming decades, so this degree could put you on track for a major administrative role at a CC. It could also put you on track for a faculty position in a traditional Ed. department. I don't regret the time I spent getting my Ph.D., but I have met people who feel otherwise. It is a big decision, but based on what you've said in your post, it sounds like it may be the way to go. -Yools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pbass_groovin Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 If you're motivated I say go for it. I was encouraged to pursue a PhD but I was tired of school after a MS & I had no more motivation. I was soooooo ready to work full time. I love working much more than school. Who knows in 10 years I might go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by pbass_groovin Who knows in 10 years I might go back. It's been ~10 years since I got my Master's. And Yools...I know there are many PhD's earning much less than I am. I'm looking at the degree as an investment and to open some doors now that are shut. While I'd like to stay where I am and continue to teach, I don't want to rest on my laurels and assume my job is for life. I'd like to have the flexibility to sell my home and move if the urge strikes me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Yools Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom And Yools...I know there are many PhD's earning much less than I am. I'm looking at the degree as an investment and to open some doors now that are shut. I figured you probably knew that already. It sounds like a good move to me; I say go for it and never look back. -Professor Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassman1956 Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 What of the time factor? There's a lot of work that goes with the PhD. Are you ready to drop the music scene? Are you sure? Just currious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Goodbye music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by bassman1956 What of the time factor? There's a lot of work that goes with the PhD. Are you ready to drop the music scene? Are you sure? Just currious. I would drop my rock band but not the country band. My work schedule at the college is fairly flexible. Studying/writing papers in between classes is doable. When I was getting both my BS and MSEd, I was working full-time and had a family for about 80% of the time I was in school. I can handle it. On top of that, I do expect my wife to be totally supportive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassman1956 Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom On top of that, I do expect my wife to be totally supportive. This in itself is a major plus. But also, you and your wife seem to make a pretty good pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by Yools As someone with a Ph.D., I'll offer my $0.02US based on my own experience (YMMV): - don't think of a Ph.D. as a way to get more money; think of it as a way to get more opportunities. A Ph.D. usually isn't worth the investment in terms of increased earning potential, but it does open lots of opportunities to you that you wouldn't otherwise have (like university faculty/administration position, expert witness testimony, NGO leadership positions, etc). If your sole reason is to get more money in the long run, that may work out, but you'll probably be disappointed. If your goal is to get a career that you like and enjoy doing, then go for it. Indeed, a Ph.D. is actually the worst investment for the return in education as far as earnings go (and don't I know it ) The big jump is to the Masters... That said, Yools is correct that you will be able to open doors and ensure security with a Ph.D that you wouldn't be able to otherwise... Plus, people will call you "Doctor TBroom", and that's just cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by Yools expert witness testimony That's it, I am SOOO doing a PH.d when I finish here...I've always wanted to be an expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members y-o-y Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by FreestyleIntruder I've always wanted to be an expert don't confuse being an expert with being considered an expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MrJoshua Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 I'm planning on going back to work on a master's in engineering, so why not get a PhD? I was going to work on an MBA instead, but the MS seems like it would be more useful at this point. Harder, but more useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 I'm definately doing a Masters when I'm done with my BMus, PhD is unlikely but one never knows. Dr. NeonVomit... damn that sounds cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members takeout Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Originally posted by Yools ...expert witness testimony..."Doctor, can you give us your impression of Mr. Stryker?" "I'm sorry, but I don't do impressions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RyCLB Posted December 6, 2005 Members Share Posted December 6, 2005 Not sure if this applies, but hey, one more perspective can't hurt, right? The saga of my wife's education... She recieved her bachelor's in accounting from LSU and then went on to LSU Law School. Towards the end of law school, she took the CPA and passed. After graduating from law school, she found that there were very few law (and accounting) positions available in South Louisiana (you know, swing a stick in the south and you'll hit an attorney...). So, we made the move back to Denver (my hometown) so she could pursue a Masters of Tax Law at the University of Denver and hopefully have better employment opportunities. Now, after some time here at DU, she having even more trouble finding a job, and here's why: The accounting firms won't hire her because they figure she wants more money (which she doesn't) because she's not only a CPA but an attorney as well. The law firms aren't hiring her because, in their words, she's "too specialized." In case you're wondering, my wife's grades have no bearing on the problem. She graduated in the top five percent of both her undergrad and law school classes. I guess the moral of the story is, a PhD or masters doesn't always guarantee long-term employment, nor does it guarantee a higher salary. TBroom, I'd really look into this PhD program before you take the plunge. Make sure the program is accredited by all important national accreditation boards, and maybe ask for testimonials from former graduates. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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