Members Timmylikesthing Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 I have 11 days until i graduate with my bachelors in mechanical engineering with a minor in industrial engineering... I'm planning on returning for an mba. Not for the money but for the opportunities to make money. T'Broom, I'd hit it. What else have you got to do? Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 7, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by Timmylikesthing What else have you got to do? Hmmm....let's see...Full-time jobPart-time consulting businessWifeTwo kidsDogTwo bands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by FreestyleIntruder .I've always wanted to be an expert Definition of an Expert: a fast talking son of a bitch, from out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 7, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by catphish Definition of an Expert: a fast talking son of a bitch, from out of town. That pretty much sums it up. I get paid to go in to companies and solve problems related to lack of or inadequate education/training in the maintenance field. Often I just go out to the maintenance shop, grab a cup of coffee and shoot the {censored} with the maintenance guys. They almost always know what the problem is but management won't listen to them. I can go back to the boardroom and say the same thing that the hourly guys have been saying for years and all of a sudden I'm a genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zamfir Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Tbroom,Gave your link a quick skim. After tonight's editing of a longish piece that includes a Slovak's translation of highly technical legal language, my head's spinning, so FWIW -- my gut sense says, be wary.It might well be that there's a great need for Community College Leadership as its own doctorate-worthy field. But I'm just not sure why you can't achieve much better marketability / salary power for the same amount of work in an administration-track Education Ph.D.? By comparison - what is ODU's rep in turning out education grads (edit: who get jobs, where?), and more importantly, what's the rep/networking value of your preferred advisor? (Does your prospective advisor work on stuff that's interesting to you, will they give a {censored} about your work, are they humane in the way they treat grad students while at the same time devoting the time to making sure you get the hell through the program efficiently?)I don't know that field at all, but I'd think that with the latter degree (Education writ large), you'd be considerably more attractive to a whole lot of schools, not just community colleges.Another, shorter backup option is to get an Education MA (edit2: or one of these M.S.Ed. degrees I see floating around), also administratively oriented, that allows you to work in secondary school (or higher ed) administration, and finish the Ph.D. when you want to get around to it.Beyond that, if the idea of going back to school doesn't appeal to you that much - there's another big, big reason to be wary. Taking a full load of grad-level classes, let alone bearing down *and* *finishing* the diss, can be killer on your time, morale/quality-of-life, and family (and of course, resources), even if you're super efficient and have been teaching as long as you have.I'm one of those people who entered and finished grad school, knowing - not really appreciating the full dimensions of the problem, just knowing as an abstract matter - that academic jobs were a very long shot in my field, and I trusted too much that I'd land a long-term career in academia. Now that I'm out with a doctorate, that formerly abstract reality has really been smacking me hard, and forcing me to look to the other 95% of the labor market that has nothing to do with academia. Whatever you choose, more power to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 7, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by Zamfir Whatever you choose, more power to you. Lot's of stuff to consider in that post. Here's my brief background:EducationMaster of Science, Adult & Continuing Education: College of Education. Northern Illinois University, August 1994. Specialization: Human Resource Development. Bachelor of Science, Vocational Education Studies: College of Education. Southern Illinois University at Carbondale, May 1993. Specialization: Education, Training and Development. Magna cum laude. Work Experience 1984-1993US NavyWorked as an boiler (& associated equipment)operator/maintenance technician aboard several ships 1993-1995College AdministratorServed as a low-level administrator setting up customized training programs for area businesses. 1995-1997Stationary EngineerFancy name for a boiler operator in the real world. Worked for a contractor out of Chicago to make more money. 1993-PresentConsultantProvide customized industrial maintenance training to area businesses. 1997-PresentProfessorTeach and manage a two-year program for Industrial Maintenance Technicians I enjoy working in the community college environment. My education does not qualify me to teach at the four-year level. I suppose finding an administrative job at the four-year schools is possible, but the community college is where I prefer to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcrow Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by greenshag I say go for it...you will be gaining more tools to make you viable in your particular profession, and will earm more money on top of it in the future... you mentioned it...so you want to do it...and i feel you can...we can call you doctor tone thenseriously though its not a drag..my daughter did her english lit MA from japan/spain over 5 years of modules on the manchester uni scheme and breezed it...its a sabbatical type way of doing what you do best..and you're worth it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the hammer Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 man all this talk about going back to school makes me want to finish my edjermercation. I wish I hadn't dropped out of high school now. My patients don't seem to mind though:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassplayer7770 Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by RyCLB The saga of my wife's education... Ry, has she considered starting her own practice/firm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J the D Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Jeff: We are losing approximately 3,000 teaching PhDs each year in the United States through retirement that do not have replacements. PhD candidates are not as prevalent which is why various institutions are being much more flexible and offering programs like the one you describe. I am looking at a Doctorate in Accounting on a flexible schedule that will allow me to work while taking courses but it will take 3-4 years to complete. I've already been assured that I would be hired because of my direct accounting experience combined with the sheepskin. Go for it. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zamfir Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom I enjoy working in the community college environment. My education does not qualify me to teach at the four-year level. I suppose finding an administrative job at the four-year schools is possible, but the community college is where I prefer to stay. Gotcha. I see you got your M.S. Ed. (or what I take to be your M.S. Ed.?). The question on my mind that I simply don't have any info to answer is: is there any extra value to be gained from, for example, the M.S.Ed. in Higher Education at ODU? I realize you'd like to stay in community colleges if possible; I'm just wondering about selecting a degree with somewhat wider focus - so that hiring managers don't suffer from the (erroneous) impression that community college admin. is *all* you know how to do as a narrow specialty. Maybe specialization vs. versatility is not an issue at all in that field - but you won't know until you ask around.I mention all that because I noticed that ODU's M.S. Ed. in Higher Ed has some overlap/ability to take community college-related courses that also count towards the Ph.D. program you were looking at. That is, if there's anything in the M.S.Ed. in Higher Ed. to be gained beyond your existing M.S.Ed. in HR.Frankly, it'd probably be a good idea just to sit down and talk with your own community college administrators, and ask a bunch of them point blank: what is the comparative value of the Ph.D. vs. the M.S.Ed. in Higher Ed. (or some third option to be named later), in working for community colleges? (Heck, can you dig up your local CC administrators' academic credentials/CVs online? )Before I forget - another good question to ask your contacts is: how stable, in terms of geographic moving frequency, are community college administrative jobs using these degrees? My superficial impression was that the senior staff at the community college where my mom just retired from as a chemistry prof, tended to move around quite a bit, on average. But that's just a gut impression off of one Tennessee C.C. of dubious overall senior management quality, so I'm not making claims of data reliability there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LanEvo Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom Curiosity got the best of me, so I opened it instead of shredding it. It seems that ODU has partnered with a community college near mine (35 miles away) and is offering a PhD in Community College Leadership via distance education.I really don't know much about this particular program. However, I do know a thing or two about academics. Everyone in my immedate family and most of my extended family have PhD's and are college professors. I myself have an MD and almost have my PhD (submitting my thesis in January and hopefully graduating in June). I currently have a research position at Harvard Medical School. From everything I've seen, a PhD is really only necessary (or even important) in an academic career. If you're interested in earning potential, leadership positions, or private sector, then you'd almost always be better off with an MBA. If you DO make the commitment to get a PhD and go into academia, then the place where you got your PhD, in what subject, and especially with whom you've worked are the most important factors. Getting a PhD from a diploma mill won't get you very far at all. I'm not suggesting that ODU is a diploma mill (I really don't know anything about it). But you'll need to make sure that the program is respected and the field (Community College Leadership) is something that will be recognized. I've never seen a posting for a position in Community College Leadership anywhere (but then again, I don;t really follow job postings for education). Make sure that this is really worthwhile before you commit a huge amount of time and money. Emre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 7, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 I found something that may be more to my liking:Ed.D. in Instructional Technology So...what's the difference between an EdD and a PhD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J the D Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom I found something that may be more to my liking:Ed.D. in Instructional Technology So...what's the difference between an EdD and a PhD? Which College within the University that issues the degree. The Ed.D may not require a dissertation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 7, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by J the D Which College within the University that issues the degree. The Ed.D may not require a dissertation. The PhD in CC Leadership at ODU is in the College of Education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LanEvo Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom So...what's the difference between an EdD and a PhD? My understanding is that EdD is the PhD equivalent for the field of Education. Emre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 7, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by LanEvo My understanding is that EdD is the PhD equivalent for the field of Education.Emre I just talked with one of the VP's (EdD) here where I work. He laid it out pretty simply: PhD: Research OrientedEdD: Practitioner Oriented The latter is looking better all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RyCLB Posted December 7, 2005 Members Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by bassplayer7770 Ry, has she considered starting her own practice/firm? Yep, but that would require some sort of client base...something she doesn't have right out of school. That is, unless she decided to take the ambulance chaser route and get some TV commercials, also spending time hanging out at hospitals looking for people with work-related injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 10, 2005 Gettin' closer... I exchanged emails with the program's advisor. It appears that they will count 30 hours of my MSEd. The leaves me with 63 hours plus any remedial classes that I may need to take. Included in the 63 are the dissertation hours. The classes are affordable and appear to be offered at times when I can take them (evenings/weekends). I also teach at night, so I'm expecting some conflicts here though. I hope to schedule a meeting with one of the professors or the department chair for next week before my family and I leave for the holidays. This is looking promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted December 10, 2005 Members Share Posted December 10, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom Gettin' closer... I exchanged emails with the program's advisor. It appears that they will count 30 hours of my MSEd. The leaves me with 63 hours plus any remedial classes that I may need to take. Included in the 63 are the dissertation hours. A Dissertation that only takes 63 hours? That'd be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zamfir Posted December 10, 2005 Members Share Posted December 10, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom Gettin' closer... I exchanged emails with the program's advisor. It appears that they will count 30 hours of my MSEd. The leaves me with 63 hours plus any remedial classes that I may need to take. Included in the 63 are the dissertation hours. The classes are affordable and appear to be offered at times when I can take them (evenings/weekends). I also teach at night, so I'm expecting some conflicts here though. I hope to schedule a meeting with one of the professors or the department chair for next week before my family and I leave for the holidays. This is looking promising. Still, you gotta ask if you really need the Ph.D. to get to where you want to go. Or - if you just want to be called "Dr. Thunderbroom." Where do ODU Pile-Higher-and-Deeper grads go to get hired, anyway? Ask whoever's currently serving as their departmental grad studies advisor...Kashue - Everyone in the business knows the token hours for dissertations under the formal curriculum, are just that - place holders for delivery of the sheepskin...Multiply them by a few - often several - semesters, and that's more like the reality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 10, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 10, 2005 Originally posted by Zamfir Still, you gotta ask if you really need the Ph.D. to get to where you want to go. Or - if you just want to be called "Dr. Thunderbroom." Where do ODU Pile-Higher-and-Deeper grads go to get hired, anyway? Ask whoever's currently serving as their departmental grad studies advisor... Kashue - Everyone in the business knows the token hours for dissertations under the formal curriculum, are just that - place holders for delivery of the sheepskin... Multiply them by a few - often several - semesters, and that's more like the reality... I'm leaning toward's the Ed.D. at Northern Illinois University vice the ODU PhD. If I wanted to be called "Dr. Thunderbroom", I'd just buy my degree online.I gave up on job status long ago...though at one point it was important to me. I'm about being happy at this point in my life.Long term, a doctorate is needed to get to where I want to go: (1) Four Year Teaching Position, (2) Two or Four Year Administrative Position (3) Corporate Training Director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassment zombie Posted December 10, 2005 Members Share Posted December 10, 2005 Good for you, T-broom! I'm going back to school, too - getting an MA/LISCW (clinical social work) - an extremely versatile degree & licensure.I did a grad program in another somewhat related human services field when I completed my Peace Corps service, and I kick myself in the arse for not figuring this out sooner for myself Better late than never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phatster Posted December 11, 2005 Members Share Posted December 11, 2005 Zombie....me a LISW,if I can be any help let me know.{feeling warm glow of giving to others} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LanEvo Posted December 11, 2005 Members Share Posted December 11, 2005 Originally posted by Zamfir Or - if you just want to be called "Dr. Thunderbroom." I believe he will be known as "Dr. Rock."Emre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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