Bob Novak on Plame....

[coyote-1]

Nor does it say anything about "left wing forces".

 

RN should read the act . It makes no distinction for a covert agent to be "overseas". If the CIA classifies an operative as covert then that is what they are. The CIA stated Plame was covert.

 

[bnyswonger]

He must be a really great guy to have friends give that much.

 

Not necessarily. That crowd has plenty of dough and they'll pony up for one of their own...especially if he shuts up and takes the fall.

[lug]

Not necessarily. That crowd has plenty of dough and they'll pony up for one of their own...especially if he shuts up and takes the fall.

 

 

Bob....

 

http://www.box.net/shared/static/564ycxgvp6.wav

[ThudMaker]

 

Nor does it say anything about "left wing forces".

Nah. Hinky just didn't go to the right spot. . . . .Section 426-

 

"(4) The term

[stevenr]

Some miscellany:

The story Saddam attempt to buy yellow cake actually started with somebody selling faked documents to the Italians. It then got passed to England, who handed it to us. "Fresh Air" had an interview with the author of a book about it, who claimed that all three government's intelligence never checked the story.

 

Her husband reported a $10,000 campaign contribution to Bush's first bid for President.

 

I read a book by Robert Baer last year or so. I was quite shocked to find that the CIA actually doesn't do the spying. CIA agents are more like handlers and recruiters of spies. They are typically State Dept beauracrats who channel information from the locals. The outing of an agent doesn't threaten the agent, it threatens the dozen or so people he/she recruited.

 

Question: Is it true that she was working for the CIA on tracking black market nukes? That would be the most disturbing thing, if it is true---outing somebody who job is preventing WMD for the sake of faking evidence of WMD.

[ryry215]

Guys, what you're refusing to get is this. Plame worked for a CIA "front" company that was at the time, and until the outing, doing COVERT work for the US government. When she was outed, every agent that worked along with her at that front company was essentially outed. We lost key intelligence connections because of a political trick to screw Joe Wilson. Why do you defend that? Criminal or not, which I say criminal, since when is it ok for the administration to compromise national security to screw an adversary?

[ThudMaker]

Guys, what you're refusing to get is this. Plame worked for a CIA "front" company that was at the time, and until the outing, doing COVERT work for the US government. When she was outed, every agent that worked along with her at that front company was essentially outed. We lost key intelligence connections because of a political trick to screw Joe Wilson. Why do you defend that? Criminal or not, which I say criminal, since when is it ok for the administration to compromise national security to screw an adversary?

So the special prosecutor, who knows ALL the facts in the case, didn't indict anyone for the "outing" because an "outing" crime wasn't committed, but we're supposed to understand that you say it's criminal, so therefore it must be. We'll get right on that one.

[ryry215]

 

So the special prosecutor, who knows ALL the facts in the case didn't indict anyone for the "outing" because an "outing" crime wasn't committed, but we're supposed to understand that you say it's criminal, so therefor it must be. We'll get right on that one.

 

 

Read quotes from Fitzgerald. He says that he could not charge anyone becuase Scooter Libby lied about the facts. Scooter knew who the culprits were and would not tell the truth. That's why he got charged...Get it now?

[ThudMaker]

Read quotes from Fitzgerald. He says that he could not charge anyone becuase Scooter Libby lied about the facts. Scooter knew who the culprits were and would not tell the truth. That's why he got charged...Get it now?

You are selectively filtering out facts to suit your own purpose. Armitage was already the known party. 1997 - 2003 not being overseas is 6 years. The law clearly states 5. get it now?

[ryry215]

You are selectively filtering out facts to suit your own purpose. Armitage was already the known party. 1997 - 2003 not being overseas is 6 years. The law clearly states 5. get it now?

 

Scooter was found guilty of lying to cover up the outing of an agent. The CIA says she was covert. She was part of a front company that was still operating. Outing her put everyone that worked for that company at risk, some of which were still in the field working AT THE TIME. I'm not filtering anything. Only telling you why the prosecutor said he charged Libby. The fact is, we dont know who committed the crime or if there was one, because Libby lied about it.

[ryry215]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1643884,00.html?cnn=yes

 

 

In Friday's eminently readable court filing, Fitzgerald quotes the Libby defense calling his prosecution "unwarranted, unjust, and motivated by politics." In responding to that charge, the special counsel evidently felt obliged to put Libby's crime in context. And that context is Dick Cheney. Libby's lies, Fitzgerald wrote, "made impossible an accurate evaluation of the role that Mr. Libby and those with whom he worked played in the disclosure of information regarding Ms. Wilson's CIA employment and about the motivations for their actions." It was established at trial that it was Cheney himself who first told Libby about Plame's identity as a CIA agent, in the course of complaining about criticisms of the administration's run-up to war leveled by her husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson. And, as Fitzgerald notes: "The evidence at trial further established that when the investigation began, Mr. Libby kept the Vice President apprised of his shifting accounts of how he claimed to have learned about Ms. Wilson's CIA employment." The investigation, Fitzgerald writes, "was necessary to determine whether there was concerted action by any combination of the officials known to have disclosed the information about Ms. Plame to the media as anonymous sources, and also whether any of those who were involved acted at the direction of others. This was particularly important in light of Mr. Libby's statement to the FBI that he may have discussed Ms. Wilson's employment with reporters at the specific direction of the Vice President." Not clear on the concept yet? Fitzgerald adds: "To accept the argument that Mr. Libby's prosecution is the inappropriate product of an investigation that should have been closed at an early stage, one must accept the proposition that the investigation should have been closed after at least three high-ranking government officials were identified as having disclosed to reporters classified information about covert agent Valerie Wilson, where the account of one of them was directly contradicted by other witnesses, where there was reason to believe that some of the relevant activity may have been coordinated, and where there was an indication from Mr. Libby himself that his disclosures to the press may have been personally sanctioned by the Vice President. "

 

 

Now, you have the VETERAN REPUBLICAN prosecutor in his own words...Don't take my word for it, take his.

[ThudMaker]

Scooter was found guilty of lying to cover up the outing of an agent. The CIA says she was covert. She was part of a front company that was still operating. Outing her put everyone that worked for that company at risk, some of which were still in the field working AT THE TIME. I'm not filtering anything. Only telling you why the prosecutor said he charged Libby. The fact is, we dont know who committed the crime or if there was one, because Libby lied about it.

I'll let others handle this from here. You clearly just don't understand that everyone knows Armitage outed her. There was no crime involved because she hadn't been in covert ops overseas in 6 years. It can even be suggested that her own husband outed her, yet again, it's all because Libby lied to a prosecutor that no other convictions could be had. Bologna! I've even posted an article in a non-right wing newspaper that quotes 2 attorneys that wrote the law in question, and neither one considered the law had been broken.

[ThudMaker]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1643884,00.html?cnn=yes Now, you have the VETERAN REPUBLICAN prosecutor in his own words...Don't take my word for it, take his.

That would be great if what he was stating was backing up your claim. It is not. He is reinforcing why there was a need for the prosecutor, not whether more indictments needed to be handed down or whether or not there were even more crimes committed.

[lug]

 

I'll let others handle this from here. You clearly just don't understand that everyone knows Armitage outed her. There was no crime involved because she hadn't been in covert ops overseas in 6 years. It can even be suggested that her own husband outed her, yet again, it's all because Libby lied to a prosecutor that no other convictions could be had. Bologna! I've even posted an article in a non-right wing newspaper that quotes 2 attorneys that wrote the law in question, and neither one considered the law had been broken.

 

 

But the REAL reason for it all was quite successful. After the smoke cleared, the Dems still got the "traitor" soundbite out there and it was probably the final straw that broke the Bush admin's back.

[ryry215]

You guys are truly amazing...That's all I can say.

[ryry215]

That would be great if what he was stating was backing up your claim. It is not. He is reinforcing why there was a need for the prosecutor, not whether more indictments needed to be handed down or whether or not there were even more crimes committed.

 

The need for a prosecutor means there were laws broken...

[lug]

The need for a prosecutor means there were laws broken...

Yep, in the great tradition of guilty until proven innocent.

[ryry215]

Yep, in the great tradition of guilty until proven innocent.

 

nope, in the tradition of presenting the evidence BEFORE THE TRIAL and deciding whether or not there is enough of it to proceed to a trial. In this case, there was. You guys act like you have more insight on this case than the people that prosecuted and tried the case. You guys did not hear the evidence. You didnt see the information presented at trial. I'm going to say that there is no possible way that this was a witch hunt put forth by a REPUBLICAN appointed prosecutor. So you really contend that all the prosecutors, lawyers, and jurors were all part of the left wing conspiracy to bring down the President, ay lug? Got a Tin foil hat to go with that?

[chris-dax]

 

Some miscellany: The story Saddam attempt to buy yellow cake actually started with somebody selling faked documents to the Italians. It then got passed to England, who handed it to us. "Fresh Air" had an interview with the author of a book about it, who claimed that all three government's intelligence never checked the story.

 

 

The Financial Times has reported that illicit sales of uranium from Niger were indeed being negotiated with Iraq, as well as with four other states.

 

According to the FT: "European intelligence officers have now revealed that three years before the fake documents became public, human and electronic intelligence sources from a number of countries picked up repeated discussion of an illicit trade in uranium from Niger. One of the customers discussed by the traders was Iraq."

[ryry215]

 

The Financial Times has reported that illicit sales of uranium from Niger were indeed being negotiated with Iraq, as well as with four other states. According to the FT: "European intelligence officers have now revealed that three years before the fake documents became public, human and electronic intelligence sources from a number of countries picked up repeated discussion of an illicit trade in uranium from Niger. One of the customers discussed by the traders was Iraq."

 

 

So only the financial times has the real inside story? I see...And a few years before that the United States government started Sadaam's chemical weapons program and funded the whole thing.

[bholder]

 

I'll let others handle this from here. You clearly just don't understand that everyone knows Armitage outed her. There was no crime involved because she hadn't been in covert ops overseas in 6 years. It can even be suggested that her own husband outed her, yet again, it's all because Libby lied to a prosecutor that no other convictions could be had. Bologna! I've even posted an article in a non-right wing newspaper that quotes 2 attorneys that wrote the law in question, and neither one considered the law had been broken.

 

 

Once again, "overseas" has nothing to do with it. Neither does the intent of the attorneys who wrote the law. The only thing that matters is what they wrote, and by that, a crime was certainly and obviously committed.

[lug]

nope, in the tradition of presenting the evidence BEFORE THE TRIAL and deciding whether or not there is enough of it to proceed to a trial. In this case, there was. You guys act like you have more insight on this case than the people that prosecuted and tried the case. You guys did not hear the evidence. You didnt see the information presented at trial. I'm going to say that there is no possible way that this was a witch hunt put forth by a REPUBLICAN appointed prosecutor. So you really contend that all the prosecutors, lawyers, and jurors were all part of the left wing conspiracy to bring down the President, ay lug? Got a Tin foil hat to go with that?

 

Um, maybe read the first post over? The question was why didn't Armitage get procecuted. In this case there wasn't "enought of it to proceed to trial".

[ryry215]

 

Um, maybe read the first post over? The question was why didn't Armitage get procecuted. In this case there wasn't "enought of it to proceed to trial ".

 

 

 

Because Libby lied to cover it up...

[lug]

Once again, "overseas" has nothing to do with it. Neither does the intent of the attorneys who wrote the law. The only thing that matters is what they wrote, and by that, a crime was certainly and obviously committed.

 

Cut and paste from the actual law:

 

****

(4) The term "covert agent" means -

(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an

intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed

Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency -

(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member

is classified information, and

(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within

the last five years served outside the United States; or.....

****

 

And on a common sense approch, no one seems overly covert to me if they drive to the CIA headquarters daily and park in the parking lot.

[lug]

 

Because Libby lied to cover it up...

 

 

And you know this how?