OT: Burn VH burn

[T. Alan Smith]

While there was certainly a lot of wanking, listen to anything from White Lion and try to say that wasn't masterful guitar work, and excellent writing. There was SO much killer playing in that genre that gets totally overlooked and laughed off because of the image, and I don't think anyone really ever listened to the nuances of the writing, especially the guitar side of it. They only hear the 'image', if that makes any sense. Listen to old David Lee Roth songs with Vai to hear some of the best rhythm guitar based writing ever, and there are tons of other examples. Heck, ever really listen to Winger? That band was tight, and had som great players and recordings. But everyone will laugh them off and never hear or be willing to see that side of them. Even Motley Crue was a tight band as far as writing and playing went, their music has some of the baddest rhythm hooks in all rock, and they could groove. Hearing all the talk of wanking, image, shredding always makes me wonder how much someone has ever really heard when the old 80's bands come up. Those guys could school most all rock bands today on groove, melody, songwriting, rhythm hooks and technique. SCHOOL them!

 

Your referring to the cream of the crop, and of course, I agree with you on their talent. And, your prolly right about the style overshadowing the substance...although the lyrics were often horrid too, which certainly doesn't help with longevity.

I don't count Roth as hair band, simply because his roots were VH, which was NOT a hair band!

You brought up 'groove' with Crue, and thru the years they've been the only hair band I'd buy music from or go to a show. I've always felt that it was because, unlike other hair bands, they honestly grooved. Hair bands were typically all about the guitar 1st, and vocals(which was great for harmony and melody). You had a lot of real chopsey drummers who could play a million miles an hour but couldn't honestly groove to save their lives. After the polish of the recording techniques wore off, the shortsightedness of rhythm in that genre turned me off.

It's interesting how it's flip flopped today(well, since the 90's) in hard rock...how it's all about rhythm today, and it's the same approach to melody(what little there is) and harmony(what little there is).

[Poltergeist]

Absolutely! Wonder why all the 80's party rock cover bands draw so large? People have fun, and it's fun music. Not to mention there were some monster players in those bands, which is an element I really miss in a lot of newer rock bands.

 

 

some people dont do music for them or others to feel bettter... some do music cose they NEED to let out inner demons, and thats is what Nirvana did...

[Captain Fathead]

:rolleyes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcOZ6xFxJqg ;)

I actually prefer Safety Dance to 90% of hair metal. Including the "greats" like Motley Crue and Poison. Hair Metal is to the 80's what Hip hop is today.

[Poltergeist]

I actually prefer Safety Dance to 90% of hair metal. Including the "greats" like Motley Crue and Poison. Hair Metal is to the 80's what Hip hop is today.

 

 

i agree... God, i hate hip-hop these days i hate hair metal...

[Rowka]

And because they killed off hair metal I hated the whole grunge thing. Hell I still do. I sure do miss the "fun" rock and roll of the 80s.

+1

[Captain Fathead]

i agree... God, i hate hip-hop these days i hate hair metal...

 

 

Eh... There are some great contemporary hip-hop artists (J5, The Roots come to mind), just as I'm sure there were some great hair metal bands. In either case, the majority of the stuff you hear on the radio is absolute poopity poop.

[T. Alan Smith]

i agree... God, i hate hair metal...

Well, let's not be ignorant. Listen closely to L1329's examples. You cannot deny the fine craftsmanship that simply isn't found in pop music these days.
That said, after the death of new wave I got into prog, jazz & "world music."

[Poltergeist]

im not saying some of them werent full-blast virtuosos or anything, i just hate the musical style... there are some good bands/songs, though... i hate hip-hop and stuff these days... but there is some good stuff out there, though... but fathead is right... if its on the radio, it sucks...

[Captain Fathead]

Well, let's not be ignorant. Listen closely to L1329's examples. You cannot deny the fine craftsmanship that simply isn't found in pop music these days. That said, after the death of new wave I got into prog, jazz & "world music."

He lost me when he used Motley Crue for an example. I find it unlistenable. I'll check out his other recommendations. I haven't heard "fine craftsmanship" in pop since the Beatles (well, that's probably a little too general, but you get what I'm saying).

[DevilRaysFan]

I actually prefer Safety Dance to 90% of hair metal. Including the "greats" like Motley Crue and Poison. Hair Metal is to the 80's what Hip hop is today.

 

 

Agreed.... As T. Alan said, there are greatly crafted pop tunes- even from hair metal bands...But, to me, it was the post new-romantic era bands like Duran Duran, ABC, Kajagoogoo, Simple Minds, Modern English, Breathe, Naked Eyes, Curiosity Killed The Cat, etc and the college-cult-bands like early U2, early REM, and Joy Division was where all the magic was....and some great innovative basslines to boot....

[Goofball Jones]

I never really "looked up" to him....more like I looked over at him. I mean, Nirvana wasn't around when I was the impressionable teen or early 20-something. Back in my day it was John Lennon and Neil Young that I looked up to.

It's all perspective on when you were raised and how the music/words spoke to you. Kurt was a troubled soul and looking back at the music now, you can see that. To me that makes the music much more interesting, relating it to how and where he was in his life when he wrote it. But I don't put any deep meaning on it like I would to other things.

[Robin]

I don't get it either. I never liked Nirvana myself.

 

 

Me neither.

[max maroon]

...Kajagoogoo....I have to learn "Too Shy" for a show tonight....should be a trip. I miss some aspects of hair metal at it's best but am kinda embarrassed at some of the stuff I used to like (umm...NITRO) I was never a huge Nirvana fan but as stated earlier the honesty in Kurt's work is undeniable, now if we could've got that rawness and honesty in hair metal we may have had something...Cause it's pretty bad when you're like 11 years old and you get a Dangerous Toys cassette and say to yourself Wow these lyrics are really bad...I mean great music but really the lyrics were really bad.

[Onkel Bob]

This song makes me want a RD Artist bass: http://youtube.com/watch?v=SK7Ai9dWrRQ&mode=related&search=

[DevilRaysFan]

I mean great music but really the lyrics were really bad.

 

True, but alot of them were supposed to be tongue-in-cheek fun

 

Case and Point: "She Loves My Cock" by Jackyl ..stupid but fun lyrics

[GRANKOR]

Hair metal is lame. I don't like Nirvana much butI'd choose them over any hair band

[zachoff]

What I don't understand is why people think it's impossible to like some hair metal and some Nirvana at the same time.

Good music is good music. Doesn't have to be genre specific or band specific. Nirvana made some songs I don't like. Not many, but they did. Poison made some songs I like. Not many, but they did. It's all relative & subjective.

[GRANKOR]

it's not impossible. Hair metal to me has nothing I like

[Super_Donut_Man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ79mPJYW5g posted in another thread i know but i still dont get it, dave was the only one in the band with talent :poke:

 

 

Why are people so into Johnny Cash then? He is a great singer, but his bands did not have the most talent.

 

Nirvana made some great music, and I was into them before he swallowed a shotgun shell. I don't look up to them, but damn did they make good music.

 

Dream Theater is a perfect example of the opposite of this situation. All talent, no heart.

 

So by your reasoning you hate America:cop:

 

EDIT: Hair metal sucks a fat one

[Jugghaid]

What I don't understand is why people think it's impossible to like some hair metal and some Nirvana at the same time. Good music is good music. Doesn't have to be genre specific or band specific. Nirvana made some songs I don't like. Not many, but they did. Poison made some songs I like. Not many, but they did. It's all relative & subjective.

 

 

I completely agree.

 

In fact, while I know a lot of people say that Nirvana changed music and got us all away from hair-band metal (and that's true to a point) so did Slayer. Reign in blood changed modern metal forever.

 

There are good and bad bands in any genre. Nirvana had some damn good tunes. so did Slayer and many other bands. What I don't get is the hero-worship stuff. makes no sense to me. If someone can't handle their sucess, get out of the business. Go play acoustic coffee house gigs or something.

[RSBro]

Why are people so into Johnny Cash then? He is a great singer, but his bands did not have the most talent. Dream Theater is a perfect example of the opposite of this situation. All talent, no heart.

Actually, lots of country/western greats played with Cash over the years. By what evidence do you base this theory? Actually I think Cash was a pretty average at best singer, but he wrote the songs people wanted to hear. Great artist overall.


Also, again, by what do you base this "no heart" DT theory? They don't write emo songs, or want to bitch slap their wives who are cheating on them? Just because they are trained/schooled musicians who have ears and ability and technique none of us will ever match doesn't mean they're robots. It's carefully written and compiled compositions that fit well together, and have made a nice living the past 20+ years doing so... If they were really "that empty", they'd be another flash in the pan band saying "Hey, I remember that one song by that one band..." I continue to enjoy and discover new stuff about DT all the time.

Say it with me- talent and ability doesn't equal no emotion or feel.

[zachoff]

Say it with me- talent and ability doesn't equal no emotion or feel.

Nope... Brian Setzer, anyone?!

[Super_Donut_Man]

Actually, lots of country/western greats played with Cash over the years. By what evidence do you base this theory? Actually I think Cash was a pretty average at best singer, but he wrote the songs people wanted to hear. Great artist overall.

I just meant his original band... Perkins was not a stellar guitarist. Solid is a great word to describe him.

But from what the OP said... Why people look up to Nirvana when Dave was the only one with talent... well plenty of people look up to Cash despite his band that launched him, really was not the most talented (did not say not good).

Also, again, by what do you base this "no heart" DT theory? They don't write emo songs, or want to bitch slap their wives who are cheating on them? Just because they are trained/schooled musicians who have ears and ability and technique none of us will ever match doesn't mean they're robots. It's carefully written and compiled compositions that fit well together, and have made a nice living the past 20+ years doing so... If they were really "that empty", they'd be another flash in the pan band saying "Hey, I remember that one song by that one band..." I continue to enjoy and discover new stuff about DT all the time. Say it with me- talent and ability doesn't equal no emotion or feel.

More of a matter of opinion, just like the OP. Talen and ability does not (I DON'T use contractions:mad:) equal no emotional or feel. I just think their music seems a bit dry. That being said I would choose Dream theater over any of those whiney bitch emo bands.

Just using it as a point to say just because of a supposed lack of talent does not mean that it is rediculous to look up to them.

[Rowka]

Contrary to popular belief I hold that Van Halen (and GnR for that matter) falls squarely in the hair-metal rack.

[RSBro]

I just meant his original band... Perkins was not a stellar guitarist. Solid is a great word to describe him. But from what the OP said... Why people look up to Nirvana when Dave was the only one with talent... well plenty of people look up to Cash despite his band that launched him, really was not the most talented (did not say not good). More of a matter of opinion, just like the OP. Talen and ability does not (I DON'T use contractions:mad: ) equal no emotional or feel. I just think their music seems a bit dry. That being said I would choose Dream theater over any of those whiney bitch emo bands.

It just depends, really. I can say there's a good bit of DT I'll press "Next" on, but most of it (at least eventually ) gets to something good. They keep it interesting, which I like at least.