Members tats_dragon Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 is scheduled for end of Nov. beginning of Dec. How about some friendly wagers? I conducted a simple blind test with three cables last night. Evidence AudioBill Lawrencecheapo tweed jacket Fender cable.I started out with the Fender and got a decent tone, so Kindness the cable was not malfunctioning. If I didn't have an Evidence Audio cable, I would be happy to gig with it. It was simply me playing the guitar with all three cables simply calling them A, B and C. My buddy JC was the test subject. Picking out the Evidence Audio is very easy at high gain settings. I won't bore you with trying to explain the sound with words.JC was even able to pick between the Bill Lawrence and Fender with pretty good accuracy. The BL according to Lava Mark is identical to George Ls. I would not recommend this cable for bass, it was the brightest of the bunch but lack in low end. The clean channel was a little harder to tell between the three. I had to go back thru the cables, without naming them, a few times for JC to pick all three. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 You'd think it'd be easier to tell the difference on the clean channel than on the high gain settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretless Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 What's the wager you speak of ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 Hooray for another cable thread!!! maximum Picofaradosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted October 22, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2007 There is no competition. Your reference to a wager seems very odd. How about instead of friendly wagers we engage in friendly learning and sharing of our learned knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 There is no competition. Your reference to a wager seems very odd. How about instead of friendly wagers we engage in friendly learning and sharing of our learned knowledge. Where's the fun in that?? :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted October 22, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2007 Where's the fun in that?? :poke: It's just apparent Jun doesn't have any idea where we are coming from. A large group of people spent a good portion of a Sunday afternoon testing cables because they honestly wanted to learn something for themselves. When they reported their findings, they were called liars and accused of being thieves as well. The conditions we had for testing (passive bass into a LMII into a Bergantino) simply produced no apparent difference in tone. Physics and every scientific test on point supports our findings. If other conditions lead to other results, we'd love to learn about it. KK's integrity will make it easy for us to accept whatever results come from this test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted October 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 I mean something like, if I can't tell the difference I have to have something in my sig" a rescind all my cable comments I can't hear a difference either" Catphish would have to change his comments from 'no audible difference' to 'I have been proven wrong, there is an audible difference. When I said 'friendly' I meant 'friendly'. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted October 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 You'd think it'd be easier to tell the difference on the clean channel than on the high gain settings. That's was a surprise to us too. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted October 22, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2007 I mean something like, if I can't tell the difference I have to have something in my sig " a rescind all my cable comments I can't hear a difference either" Catphish would have to change his comments from 'no audible difference' to 'I have been proven wrong, there is an audible difference. When I said 'friendly' I meant 'friendly'. Jun I told Lavaman that if he'd show us how easily he can hear the difference between cables, I'd pimp his product all over the internet. You don't need to bet me for me to pro-actively spread the word if your test results go against the results of our test. In fact, you won't be able to keep me from talking about it. You also won't be able to keep me from trying to replicate it myself. Similarly, if you aren't able to make out the different cables in a statistically significant way (no one is perfect), I am sure you'd say so and apologize for calling us "tin ears." Again, no need for a bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 I would have zero problem admitting I'm wrong when I see some evidence to suggest it. ...regardless of whether you offer to do the same or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 It's just apparent Jun doesn't have any idea where we are coming from. A large group of people spent a good portion of a Sunday afternoon testing cables because they honestly wanted to learn something for themselves. When they reported their findings, they were called liars and accused of being thieves as well. The conditions we had for testing (passive bass into a LMII into a Bergantino) simply produced no apparent difference in tone. Physics and every scientific test on point supports our findings. If other conditions lead to other results, we'd love to learn about it. KK's integrity will make it easy for us to accept whatever results come from this test. Of course you post that w/ the understanding I jest... But that is what's sad- it's turned into a "contest", without the initial "expert" involved. However, just to point this out, the testing was done on bass equipment, and not for guitars. I can hear audible differences between cables with guitars, and running through a large pedalboard with a cranked high-gain amp. Done it more than once, as the noise was reduced greatly by using your mid-level Monsters vs. the $5 Rapcos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted October 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 First of all I would like to apologize for that comment. Now I understand the circumstances behind the Lava Cable attacks on the 'Props' thread. You've got to understand my surprise when moderators and bass players all of a sudden started posting 'dissenting opinions'.This bass forum seems like a tight knit bunch of guys/gals on a quest for tone just like I am. I already feel like most of you here are level headed. Were just musicians with strong very strong opinions. This has been and will be a learning process for all of us. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted October 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 There's no wager necessary for that. I've already stated: ...regardless of whether you offer to do the same or not. Are you willing to put it in your sig? Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted October 22, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2007 However, just to point this out, the testing was done on bass equipment, and not for guitars. I can hear audible differences between cables with guitars, and running through a large pedalboard with a cranked high-gain amp. Done it more than once, as the noise was reduced greatly by using your mid-level Monsters vs. the $5 Rapcos. Understandable. However, noise reduction is a far cry from frequency response contouring. In any case, all of our conversations to date have been in the context of instrument > cable > amp. I have lots to say about cabling and its relevance in a buffered vs. non-buffered effects chain, but no reason to complicate things at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted October 22, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2007 First of all I would like to apologize for that comment. Now I understand the circumstances behind the Lava Cable attacks on the 'Props' thread. You've got to understand my surprise when moderators and bass players all of a sudden started posting 'dissenting opinions'. This bass forum seems like a tight knit bunch of guys/gals on a quest for tone just like I am. I already feel like most of you here are level headed. Were just musicians with strong very strong opinions. This has been and will be a learning process for all of us. Jun Now you're seeing this for what it is. Welcome aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 Understandable. However, noise reduction is a far cry from frequency response contouring. In any case, all of our conversations to date have been in the context of instrument > cable > amp. I have lots to say about cabling and its relevance in a buffered vs. non-buffered effects chain, but no reason to complicate things at this point. Yeah, that's probably way over my head (well, it is honestly) but I didn't know if that was being considered or not. Mainly pointing out that guitar vs. bass in a listening thread isn't apples = oranges, and results will likely differ. Well, maybe at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 go equally for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted October 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 Actually I would like suggestions on different methods. King Kashue has mention I get blindfolded and some one switches out the cable with me on guitar.That would be switching out the guitar to amp cable. How about using the series efx loop? That would test the affects between a preamp and amp. Could be interesting. After the shielded cable test I would also like to conduct switching out the speaker cable too. How about switching instrument and speaker wire? I want this test to be as thorough as possible. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 78pbass Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 You've got to be deaf if you cant hear the difference... newbs. :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted October 22, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2007 Actually I would like suggestions on different methods.King Kashue has mention I get blindfolded and some one switches out the cable with me on guitar.That would be switching out the guitar to amp cable.How about using the series efx loop? That would test the affects between a preamp and amp. Could be interesting. After the shielded cable test I would also like to conduct switching out the speaker cable too. How about switching instrument and speaker wire?I want this test to be as thorough as possible.Jun I can mail out all of the other cables that were used in our test if you'd like. The only ones that had to be returned were LM's. I don't have time at the moment, but I can definitely post my thoughts on being thorough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted October 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 I can mail out all of the other cables that were used in our test if you'd like. The only ones that had to be returned were LM's.I don't have time at the moment, but I can definitely post my thoughts on being thorough. What other cables? It would be nice to hear other high end cables to compare, since I only have experience with the cables mentioned here. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted October 22, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2007 What other cables? It would be nice to hear other high end cables to compare, since I only have experience with the cables mentioned here.Jun They aren't "high end" so to speak. I will look tonight to see what it there. However, they are all listed in the original threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rowka Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 If anyone wants, tell me how many cables and how many participants and I'll send out a Gauge R&R schedule and analyze the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members funkrockfreedomfighter Posted October 22, 2007 Members Share Posted October 22, 2007 Prunedale! You wouldn't happen to know a Nik Johnson would you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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