Moderators isaac42 Posted February 17, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 17, 2008 Sorry but the way they treat women as second class citizens makes them less than tolerant. Women don't even go to heaven in their religion!! They are treated as property. This is hardly unique to Islam. In Exodus 20 (where the so-called Ten Commandments are located - one version, anyway), verse 17 states, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." Note that the wife comes after the house, and is lumped in with his other possessions, including his slaves ("servants"). One could therefore argue that Judaism and Christianity also treat women as property, and this has certainly been true in some times and places, but is not universal. It need not be with Islam, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 This is hardly unique to Islam. In Exodus 20 (where the so-called Ten Commandments are located - one version, anyway), verse 17 states, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's." Note that the wife comes after the house, and is lumped in with his other possessions, including his slaves ("servants"). One could therefore argue that Judaism and Christianity also treat women as property, and this has certainly been true in some times and places, but is not universal. It need not be with Islam, either. Also not strictly observed in Judaism considering there are female rabbis and Jewish leaders who are female. For instance Israel had a woman as it's prime minister! Even Hasidic Jews don't treat women as property. The ultra-orthodoxy in Hasidic Judaism keeps the sexes apart...but it doesn't really "restrict" the females anymore than it restricts the males. They're just kept apart except for families. Women socialize with other women and the men socialize with other men. On the surface it may appear that they're subjugating the women as many cultures in Islam may do, but they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 17, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 In some ways, maybe Islam should be blamed for the intolerance, hate and violence of some of its so-called practicers. By its very nature...unorganized with no true leadership...Islam allows too many interpretations, and obviously some are simply not acceptable to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Undead Sycip Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 What's there to complain about? It's not like Wiki made that {censored} up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassman1956 Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 More power to Wikipedia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 In some ways, maybe Islam should be blamed for the intolerance, hate and violence of some of its so-called practicers. By its very nature...unorganized with no true leadership...Islam allows too many interpretations, and obviously some are simply not acceptable to the world.Yup, and anyone that questions Islam motives or speaks against it's practitioners is railed as ignorant and intolerant by politically correct people that use it as an excuse to point out how much more "benevolent" and "wise" they are. Especially on internet forums.It sucks, but we're up against a religion, not just extremists. If the religion wants to avoid blame for the problems caused by the extremists, it needs to do something to stop it, but it's not. You can't tell me that a religion with well over a billion followers couldn't stop a supposed 1% faction within itself from perpetrating actions in it's name that desecrate the faith. They haven't stopped it because they endorse the actions of these extremist groups, and they're getting away with it because they've got everyone convinced that "hey, it's not us, it's them. We're all about peace." Bull{censored}. If they were really serious about peace they would band together and clean up Islam. C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 There's a problem with that though. Who speaks for the religion? It's not like Christianity, where we have the Pope Benedict XIV in Catholicism, the Patriarch Bartholomew I in Eastern Orthodoxy or the Anglican Archbishop Dr. Williams. There isn't really a 'head' of a united organisaton in Islam. In Britain, you have the Muslim Council, but they're only really recognised within the UK. Who is the 'boss'? You get militants claiming that they are. And thats where the problems start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 If they were really serious about peace they would band together and clean up Islam. C7 How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 How? They would do whatever it takes, that's how. How else are these extremists going to be stopped? Nobody seems to support the West going in there to stop them, so what are we supposed to do? Be friendly and hope they stop wanting us dead? Besides, it was sort of a silly scenario for me to pose, considering that the majority of muslims don't WANT them to stop, so it would never happen. I guess I'm just fantasizing about muslims doing the right thing again... C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 There's a problem with that though.Who speaks for the religion? It's not like Christianity, where we have the Pope Benedict XIV in Catholicism, the Patriarch Bartholomew I in Eastern Orthodoxy or the Anglican Archbishop Dr. Williams. There isn't really a 'head' of a united organisaton in Islam. In Britain, you have the Muslim Council, but they're only really recognised within the UK.Who is the 'boss'? You get militants claiming that they are. And thats where the problems start. In a group that tops 1 billion, it shouldn't matter who the "boss" is. If the common muslim population was interested in putting an end to the violence and stop other muslims from killing them and others in the name of their religion, they could do it without a "boss". Either that, or all the "bosses" could, you know, unite instead of struggle for power, and work to stop it. But they're not. And they wont. C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 They would do whatever it takes, that's how. How else are these extremists going to be stopped? Nobody seems to support the West going in there to stop them, so what are we supposed to do? Be friendly and hope they stop wanting us dead?Besides, it was sort of a silly scenario for me to pose, considering that the majority of muslims don't WANT them to stop, so it would never happen. I guess I'm just fantasizing about muslims doing the right thing again...C7 Dunno...I don't think there's any easy solution...or even a workable one. Considering they fight amongst themselves depending on what sect they belong, so there's not even a unified "Islamic" religion other than hating the west, hating Israel...etc etc. Dubai seems to be a real happening place though. From my perspective...which I'll admit is limited...it seems to be a workable society that actually builds up things and is trying to bring it's region into the 21st century....right smack in the middle of the UAE (United Arab Emirates). But who knows...it could all go to crap very quickly like Beirut did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 Remember they're busy killing each other as well. So any 'united' view is unlikely. And if there's a leaderless structure, it's harder for someone to say 'look, let's stop all this nonsense and be civilised'. 'Why should we listen to you, who are you to talk etc' will be the reply. Let's look at a similar scenario in Catholicism: 'why should we listen to you?' 'because I'm the mother{censored}in' POPE, that's why.' and so on. Sort of like what Christianity was about a few hundred years ago. Now all the different branches are at least on neutral terms with each other. Also, most Muslims live in developing countries. Developing countries have a higher chance of being devoutly religious (because their lives suck; the more your life sucks overall, the more likely you are to be very religious. That's what I imagine anyway) Desperate people will do desperate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t3ch Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 Oh wiki... I love you. Hell yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Undead Sycip Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 Islam should reestablish their Caliphate so they can have their world leader who will be accountable for his minions actions. Moslems are funny in a way that they are loyal to their religious leader first and their country second so a Caliph may not be a bad idea Give em Somalia or sumthin.King Kashue can explain this better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ezstep Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 They would do whatever it takes, that's how. "...by whatever means necessary..." Malcom X I must admit that I do have a problem that whenever someone blows himself up along with 30+ civilians including women and children that "speakers" point out that those were extremists and not the mainstream of the religion. I want to tell them to "Do something about it, then". But, Timothy McVay was not muslim. John Wayne Gacy was not muslim. etc., etc. And, I don't recall baptists or methodists or presbyterians or whatever trying to do anything to stop their extremists, either. Political correctness is double-edged and cuts both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Undead Sycip Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 "...by whatever means necessary..." Malcom XI must admit that I do have a problem that whenever someone blows himself up along with 30+ civilians including women and children that "speakers" point out that those were extremists and not the mainstream of the religion. I want to tell them to "Do something about it, then".But, Timothy McVay was not muslim. John Wayne Gacy was not muslim. etc., etc. And, I don't recall baptists or methodists or presbyterians or whatever trying to do anything to stop their extremists, either. Political correctness is double-edged and cuts both ways. Yeah and how many McVays have we had? And are there elements in my local church recruiting potential bombers everyday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cdb Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 muslim extremists: all muslims KKK: american christianians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Les_Izzmor Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 In some ways, maybe Islam should be blamed for the intolerance, hate and violence of some of its so-called practicers. By its very nature...unorganized with no true leadership...Islam allows too many interpretations, and obviously some are simply not acceptable to the world. Let's see... In some ways, maybe Christianity should be blamed for the intolerance, hate and violence of some of its so-called practicers. By its very nature...unorganized with no true leadership...Islam allows too many interpretations, and obviously some are simply not acceptable to the world In some ways, maybe Judaism should be blamed for the intolerance, hate and violence of some of its so-called practicers. By its very nature...unorganized with no true leadership...Islam allows too many interpretations, and obviously some are simply not acceptable to the world As true with any huge religion. There's no way to control everybody who calls themself a follower of your religion. That's just the way of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bikehorn Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 You know what's funny. Whenever something like this comes up, there's always talk about "hate" in Islam, but there's no shortage of ugly disdain in these threads either. Real ironic that nobody really wants to free themselves from the same thing they go around denouncing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Undead Sycip Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 Disdain and hate aren't the same thing. BTW, a suicide bomber just killed 80 ppl in Afghanistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 As true with any huge religion. There's no way to control everybody who calls themself a follower of your religion. That's just the way of the world. Yeah, but the numbers point at Islam being the most troublesome religion. Then again, religion really is just a tool used to get people to achieve political aims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Undead Sycip Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 In all fairness, Christianity is neck deep in blood also. But we're not trying to bring back the old times anymore. Islam is still fixated on restoring their Prophet's empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bikehorn Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 Disdain and hate aren't the same thing.BTW, a suicide bomber just killed 80 ppl in Afghanistan. Well If I had called it 'hate', I would have probably ignited a conservative {censored}storm that I don't really care to waste my time being a part of. IMO, the line between disdain and hate becomes blurred when massive uninformed blanket statements about 2 billion people are considered "accurate". Use your own judgement to decide what side of the fence you're on. Btw, that bombing is really sad to hear about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted February 17, 2008 Members Share Posted February 17, 2008 You know what's funny. Whenever something like this comes up, there's always talk about "hate" in Islam, but there's no shortage of ugly disdain in these threads either. Real ironic that nobody really wants to free themselves from the same thing they go around denouncing. What are we supposed to do? I've "tried to understand" them, but no amount of understanding on my part is going to make them "try to understand" me. I don't "hate" muslims, I'd love to see them come around and work towards peace. Until they do, I will continue to have a low opinion of them. I don't need to "free" myself from my feelings on a matter simply because others might not agree with me. C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 17, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 But, Timothy McVay was not muslim. John Wayne Gacy was not muslim. etc., etc. And, I don't recall baptists or methodists or presbyterians or whatever trying to do anything to stop their extremists, either. Political correctness is double-edged and cuts both ways. I disagree. There were baptist, methodist and presbyterian police, detectives and investigators who worked to capture, prosecute, and incarcerate these 'extremists'. They did something about it. I also don't recall McVeigh or Gacy using religion as the "excuse", for lack of a better term, for their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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