Members collinwho Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 Guitarists are {censored}ing retards when it comes to "their tone". From douchbags who refuse to give up their dimed 100 watt tube heads to {censored}tards who think that no multiFX unit can effectively duplicate the awesome sound they get with their pile of pedals. It'd be {censored}ing nice if they would realize that a POD XT Live gets close enough for everything and sounds better in situations where a variety of tones is needed. PODs do sound good, but they don't sound the same. Granted, a bunch of 21 year old chicks out dancing to a cover band are going to notice the difference, but when I am playing with my original group, I sure as hell am going to notice the difference. I am a big fan of the PODs, I use them for all my home demo recording projects. They still fall short at responding to picking dynamics on slightly overdriven sounds. Since this type of sound is the basis for my guitar tone, the POD simply doesn't work. Of course, I am also fully capable of controlling my volume, so it isn't a big deal for my band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 An attenuator does change the tone, as does turning down the master volume. Small tube amps cranked still don't sound the same as large stacks dimed. Multi-FX units can't always replicate the sound of a bunch of vintage pedals and a rat's nets of wires. That's not the point. People come to see a band, not the "one man guitar show." So what if your precious "TONE" suffers? Most people can't tell the difference, and it probably sounds a lot better anyway when it's at a reasonable volume. Being stupid loud defeats the whole purpose of buying nice gear anyway. You want your guitar to sound good, not drive people away. How can you consider yourself to have "THE TONE" when that very same sound is nothing but "PAIN" to most people? Get yourself a nice Line 6 amp or some sort of portable combo and don't crank it. Everyone will probably think your newly acquired guitar tone is better than your old one. This isn't the 60's, when guitarists were forced to use multiple stacks on stage simply because PA technology at the time wasn't able to support anything more than vocals and a tiny bit of drums. When Eric Clapton used three Marshall full stacks with Cream, he did it because he had to - his stage volume had to carry the concert hall because the PA's at that time couldn't do the heavy lifting. This isn't 1968 anymore. Get with the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 Our last guitarist didn't understand volume control; that's why he's our former guitarist. We've had our new guy for a year now. He gets it. He gave up a really nice Dr. Z setup and moved to a Fender Blues Junior. Now that we're using IEM's, he's planning to do the rackmount Pod Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted February 9, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 9, 2009 Small tube amps cranked still don't sound the same as large stacks dimed. They sound better. That's why those smaller tube amps are recording studio favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members slapthefunkyfour Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 Remind me to tell you about my bands rehearsal space later. I'm too busy now. But really quick, we use 4 2x15 PA speakers for vocals and the backtrack. The singer thinks he needs monitors. I can't even hear the drums. Ear plugs are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sugarskull Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 I'm a lucky lucky girl. I seriously have actually heard this phrase before. "Sounds good, we need a bit more guitar out front though." Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted February 9, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 9, 2009 Our last guitarist didn't understand volume control; that's why he's our former guitarist. We've had our new guy for a year now. He gets it. He gave up a really nice Dr. Z setup and moved to a Fender Blues Junior. Now that we're using IEM's, he's planning to do the rackmount Pod Pro.Has your drummer went to electronics yet? Is the acoustic guitarist playing a slab through an acoustic sim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AluminumNeck Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 Uggh guitardists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 PODs do sound good, but they don't sound the same. Granted, a bunch of 21 year old chicks out dancing to a cover band are going to notice the difference, but when I am playing with my original group, I sure as hell am going to notice the difference. I am a big fan of the PODs, I use them for all my home demo recording projects. They still fall short at responding to picking dynamics on slightly overdriven sounds. Since this type of sound is the basis for my guitar tone, the POD simply doesn't work. No doubt, but the difference is so subtle that the only people who can hear the difference are musicians. If it's an original group that's going for a specific sound, then it makes sense to get the ebst tone possible out of the gear that will do it. However, most working bands are cover bands where the guitarist needs a variety of sounds and a POD sounds more like a Fender Twin than a dimed Dual Rectifier. For most guys who play bars every weekend, they'd be better off with an X3 Live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 I've been blessed with a great guitarist that understands his hearing is important. He has a Marshall DSL 50 through a 4x12 w/ GT1275s. Every gig I've played with him, he goes through the PA. If the PA is off, you can talk over his amp. Modern amps don't have to be loud to get a great sound (*though, that is still pretty cool sometimes). The current guy in my band also uses a DSL 50, but through a Carvin Legacy 412 with Greenbacks - it's pretty sweet... With him, I end up asking him to turn up - which is certainly a refreshing change from the "norm"... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 I seriously have actually heard this phrase before. "Sounds good, we need a bit more guitar out front though." Amazing. Same here... I typically match volume with the drummer, then get the guitarist to come up to us for a solid mix with authority, but not overwhelming volume... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 I have two, both with half-stacks, but I'm usually the loudest one at practice.Once your guitard(s) grow up and actually learn how to use your equipment, life gets better. Trust me. That's what I've found works tho- you just insult them to the point where they look like an ass and are forced to figure out how to work the amp right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 No doubt, but the difference is so subtle that the only people who can hear the difference are musicians. If it's an original group that's going for a specific sound, then it makes sense to get the ebst tone possible out of the gear that will do it. However, most working bands are cover bands where the guitarist needs a variety of sounds and a POD sounds more like a Fender Twin than a dimed Dual Rectifier. For most guys who play bars every weekend, they'd be better off with an X3 Live. Depends on the type of cover band - IMO, a POD will never match the tone of a Marshall, 5150, Rec, etc... and the Twin Reverb tone doesn't cut it regarding hard rock, modern rock, or metal... We have bands in my area that use PODs, Digitech, whatever - and they don't sound as "real" as those using the real deal... Probably mostly a coincidence, but they also don't draw as well as the bands using the real deal...I fully understand that you're happy with running things that way, but it isn't a solution for everyone - depending on genre...That being said, there are plenty of ways to get good tube tone without being rediculously loud... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 Depends on the type of cover band - IMO, a POD will never match the tone of a Marshall, 5150, Rec, etc... and the Twin Reverb tone doesn't cut it regarding hard rock, modern rock, or metal... We have bands in my area that use PODs, Digitech, whatever - and they don't sound as "real" as those using the real deal... Probably mostly a coincidence, but they also don't draw as well as the bands using the real deal... I fully understand that you're happy with running things that way, but it isn't a solution for everyone - depending on genre... That being said, there are plenty of ways to get good tube tone without being rediculously loud... - georgestrings They need to work on the settings then. The new X3 is darn near perfect and for bar gigs, no- you can't tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted February 9, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 9, 2009 Depends on the type of cover band - IMO, a POD will never match the tone of a Marshall, 5150, Rec, etc... and the Twin Reverb tone doesn't cut it regarding hard rock, modern rock, or metal... We have bands in my area that use PODs, Digitech, whatever - and they don't sound as "real" as those using the real deal... Probably mostly a coincidence, but they also don't draw as well as the bands using the real deal...I fully understand that you're happy with running things that way, but it isn't a solution for everyone - depending on genre...That being said, there are plenty of ways to get good tube tone without being rediculously loud... - georgestringsI personally don't think the type/genre of cover band matters. You are spot on about the PODs and other amp sims not sounding "real." I've owned a Bass POD Xt Pro, Digitech 2120, Digitech Valve FX, Boxx GX700, etc. There is no amp sim that comes close to the real deal. Further, add that the FX are software, too. Yuck. I'll take a TubeScreamer or a Route 66 in front of a Fender before I'd ever go the all-in-one rack. A lot of people are missing that amp companies also have put out rack preamps. Little known is that Marshall put out a solid state 9004 preamp. It has 2 channels, an FX loop and mono/stereo output. I had mine modded as stock it was a bit sterile. All that's needed after that is a good speaker sim DI. There are plenty of those around. With that setup a guitard is still using his pedalboard. It sounds good. There are a lot of good rack preamps out there. Why not have someone with the skills of Guttermouth build a preamp using the schematic of your amp of shoice's preamp circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 I think there is a lot of visual effect as well. A band that is set up with a silent stage, all DI, e-drums and IEMs, will probably never sound as good because it doesn't look the part. Most bar bands have {censored} for PA anyway, so it really doesn't matter how killer the guitar tone is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted February 9, 2009 Moderators Share Posted February 9, 2009 They need to work on the settings then. The new X3 is darn near perfect and for bar gigs, no- you can't tell the difference. When you hang out right in front of the stage and realize that the "wash" of stage volume you are expecting to hear isn't there, you will understand there is a significant difference. If I wanted to go listen to digitized sound coming out of 2 speakers, I can stay at home, put a CD in and ease the seat back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 When you hang out right in front of the stage and realize that the "wash" of stage volume you are expecting to hear isn't there, you will understand there is a significant difference. If I wanted to go listen to digitized sound coming out of 2 speakers, I can stay at home, put a CD in and ease the seat back.Yup.Nothing screams "Wedding Band" like a silent stage and IEM's at a club setting.Lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 They need to work on the settings then. The new X3 is darn near perfect and for bar gigs, no- you can't tell the difference. I haven't heard the X3, but I've never heard a sim of any kind match the real thing - regardless of settings... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 And nothing screams "Amateur Hacks" like 125 dB stage volume with a $1000 PA. Personally, I'd prefer the happy medium. The guitarist that plays with us for the higher dollar gigs uses some kind of low powered Fender tube combo with a TC multiFX unit. He keeps his {censored} under control and always sounds great. Any guitarist can sound great with just about any rig, but it takes a person that knows their {censored} to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 I think there is a lot of visual effect as well. A band that is set up with a silent stage, all DI, e-drums and IEMs, will probably never sound as good because it doesn't look the part. Most bar bands have {censored} for PA anyway, so it really doesn't matter how killer the guitar tone is. That's probably *a part* of it, but I think Thud nailed it here: "When you hang out right in front of the stage and realize that the "wash" of stage volume you are expecting to hear isn't there, you will understand there is a significant difference. If I wanted to go listen to digitized sound coming out of 2 speakers, I can stay at home, put a CD in and ease the seat back." At the rock shows I play, if we don't get people up front and rocking, we haven't done our job well - and up in front, with IEMs and sims, it just isn't there... and as I said, I've yet to hear a sim that'll match a good tube amp/cab sound, a good sounding bass rig, nor an acoustic drum set... I guess we'll have to disagree on this one... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 And nothing screams "Amateur Hacks" like 125 dB stage volume with a $1000 PA.Personally, I'd prefer the happy medium. The guitarist that plays with us for the higher dollar gigs uses some kind of low powered Fender tube combo with a TC multiFX unit. He keeps his {censored} under control and always sounds great. That's right. There are two extremes - the obvious one is the overly loud band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 Yup. Nothing screams "Wedding Band" like a silent stage and IEM's at a club setting. Lame. Yeah - although I wouldn't quite put it that way, that's kinda how it is... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 The X3's are damn close from the people I hear use them (experienced users, mind you- not people "demoing" them in the store), one of which is every Sunday AM through our Aviom setup. Also, 3-5 beers in, nobody cares. I agree with Burdi more than anything on this. The moment I see a full-stack (or two), an 810 fridge and a 20-piece kit with no shield on a 10x10 stage with a 112+horn and 115 sub Peavey setup, I'm headed for the door. It doesn't take much to realize what the {censored} is about to happen, and it's not going to be pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members basshunter Posted February 9, 2009 Members Share Posted February 9, 2009 The solution is that all guitards should have the same guitar amp I do, the short lived Fender '75'. Switchable between 15 and 75W of all-tube goodness. And if you're clever, you can disable the with when they aren't looking and keep them on 15W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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