Jump to content

I'll admit it. I just don't see what the fascination is with you guys and your big-

THB

By THB
in Backstage With the Band

Recommended Posts

  • Members
noisewave Newbie

noisewave

Posted
  • Members
Posted

I used to use 4x12 cabs all the time but I've found that I can get what I want with a 2x12. It's loud enough unmic'ed as well.
as for hearing it up by your head, I like that as well so I stand mine on end on top of a milk crate (I have a short scale head).

whatever works for ya.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Members
Terry Allan Hall Newbie

Terry Allan Hall

Posted
  • Members
Posted

Originally posted by vonscott

Depends on the space I have, if I can I love to run a full stack. I think it looks cool and love the sound up by my head not my legs, I run my pitbull at 50 watts and keep reasonable stage volume though.


Something we tried and liked with my other guitar player was running my guitar through his bottom cab and my top, his guitar through my bottom cab and and his top. It helped to get a great stage mix without having to run guitar in the monitors.


If I dont have room I run my xxx combo tilted up or on a stand.

 

 

We've done that in the past, on bigger festival stages...run my extension cab on the bassist's side and her extension cab on mine, but this was back when we had a conventional drummer, rather than a percussionist...when we do a gig that pays well enough to use both, we'll go back to doing it that way.

 

We finally decided that it's easier to put our main combo amps just to each side of and behind the percussionist, and only run voices through the monitors. thus the combos become the "instrument monitors" and line-outs from same go into the PA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Members
axe2 2001 Newbie

axe2 2001

Posted
  • Members
Posted

I have and use a 2x12 or a 4x12 with a 50 watt marshall. I prefer the 4x12. Not because it looks cool, because I like it better. You can have a 4x12 and not kill small animals. With both cabs I either use a hotplate or I put a sound shield in front of the cab. I like the sound shield. It seems redundant but I get all the tube AND speaker breakup I want without wrecking ears. Then that gets mic'ed up. It really shouldn't upset anyone as to what cabs a guy is using unless he is obnoxious loud. I've seen many bands with small cabs and combo amps that did kill ears.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Members
theAntihero Newbie

theAntihero

Posted
  • Members
Posted

I to have played in clubs where the soundmen didnt mike my amp, and i quite frankly prefer to have more power than i need. Also it works out great for when you have to deal with drunk and/or incompetent soundmen who really really reallllllly like to hear the highhats and the kick.......and not much else. Then i just walk up to my amp, start turning up the volume until one of our fans out in the audience says they can actually hear me. Of course when i am in that sort of situation, i point my amp away from my eardrums and kick the moniters out of my hearing.


Also if you are like me and you are in a power trio and you play some heavier songs, you know that it really really sucks when the guitar is missing from the mix. And its also much easier to get feedback,which i like.

And on the other side of things, i get tired of seeing guys with full stacks on 10 complaining that they cant hear themselves in the moniter, or cant hear anything from the moniters at all. Of course they are also pointing their full stack directly at ear level and standing 10 feet away from it!!! .....sorry my band has played at clubs and let other bands use our soundstem while we ran sound....

All in all i think that if you can get away with a low sound level, thats great, but if youre like me and cant always count on a good soundman, and play loud music anyway, you would appreciate a 120 watt 2-12 combo with an old Bassman 2-12 for an extention. It gets things rumbling if it has to:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Members
ATOMICDOG1 Newbie

ATOMICDOG1

Posted
  • Members
Posted

What I find funny is that a lot of the time when you see a monster multi-stack rig at a major concert, only a couple of the cabs are even plugged in. Sometimes its not even the cabs that are on stage that are miced, but a small combo amp or a single cab in an iso box backstage that you are really hearing. Most of the sound that the guitarist hears most of the time is coming from their monitors anyway. The huge rigs that you see on stage are there for looks and not function. And with the increased use of in-ear monitoring systems this is becoming more and more common.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Members
Danny (NS::U) Newbie

Danny (NS::U)

Posted
  • Members
Posted

Just some quick observations as an FOH engineer in mostly smaller rooms:

1) The uber-loud stacks sound fine on stage, but by the time you're in the middle of the audience you've got a roaring, low-mid roar with screeching high-mids.

2) If the PA is to compensate for this tonal problem, it has to be drowning out the amp. This leads to stuipdly-high SPL levels.

3) As was said before, the usefulness of your monitors can decrease significantly. Your amp can almost certainly drown out any monitoring system that is at a safe level, and do so quite easily.

4) Even in the situation where the FOH engineer lets your amps carry the sound, and only uses the PA for, say, vocals and kick drum, those amps are producing a ton of energy in the frequencies where the vocals sit. Thus, the engineer is forced to push the vocals higher and higher to make them audible. At some point, they start feeding back (usually in the high mid and high frequencies) forcing the engineer to either leave them be, or EQ them for more gain-before-feedback. This can often result in the muddying of the vocals. The result is a massive roar with vocals that may or may not be understandable. It sounds anywhere from mediocre to awful, but it's really, really loud! :rolleyes:

Please note that 4) has been reported not only by small-time guys like me, but also by the midsize guys in clubs with 14000 watt PA systems.

I love big-rock guitar, and I play a bit myself, so I can sit at FOH and sympathize with the desire for a specific tone and feel. However, at FOH my job is to care very deeply about the sound hitting the audience, and when it's not all that you feel it could be it's frustrating. As an FOH engineer, I want the show to sound good, which to many of us has become quite exclusive from the SPL level of the show. One of the mixes that I have been the most pleased with had a maximum peak of 100 dBA. People liked the music a lot (as far as I could tell; I got no complaints that night.) Yes, the show was rock (some of it quite heavy).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Members
Next to Nothing Newbie

Next to Nothing

Posted
  • Members
Posted

hey sound guy guy,

I have also read that the difference between a 1/2 stack and a full stack (one amp head) is only 3 decipals. Is this true?

If thats the case, what is the difference between a 2x12 and a 4x12?

I know there are variables, but lets say with a 80-100watt head.

And on a side note, I have never been told to turn it down (as someone said must always happen if you play thru a 1/2 stack:rolleyes: ). and I play thru a 4x12 + 2x12. But I also dont play with my volume on eleven.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Members
wheresgrant3 Newbie

wheresgrant3

Posted
  • Members
Posted

I'm in full agreement with this post....

the only reason we use them is a 1-12" amp is boring.... haha!!! ;)

Seriously.... I have a Peavey XXX with a 2x12 cab and it is way overkill for the rooms we play. In fact... our whole PA is overkill for most of the rooms we play. That's why we are moving out of the area to larger rooms.

We mic my amp and run line out for our other guitarist (he uses Line 6 pod Pro and Rivera 4x12). We try to keep the backline low, but our drummer, while talented, hits like a buffalo. Needless to say we don't do many quiet wedding gigs.

So our backline is a bit louder than your average band. However despite the extra decibles we really do work with our PA to balance out stage and FOH volumes. We always get compliments on the mix.... from bar owners and fans alike... which makes me wonder about other bands. The crowd, yards deep never complains, frowns or moves away. A band can be loud, but if the mix sucks you're doomed!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Members
wheresgrant3 Newbie

wheresgrant3

Posted
  • Members
Posted
Originally posted by Next to Nothing

hey sound guy guy,


I have also read that the difference between a 1/2 stack and a full stack (one amp head) is only 3 decipals. Is this true?


If thats the case, what is the difference between a 2x12 and a 4x12?


I know there are variables, but lets say with a 80-100watt head.


And on a side note, I have never been told to turn it down (as someone said must always happen if you play thru a 1/2 stack:rolleyes: ). and I play thru a 4x12 + 2x12. But I also dont play with my volume on eleven.



To me there is no additional benefit or difference in "audible" volume by using a 4x12, a 2 x12 or a 1 x12. It's all tonality. A 4x12 has a bigger sweep when it comes to your sound, a 2x12 may sound a bit tighter, a 1 x12 for metal or distortion seems to lack any dimension to me.... however a Fender 1x12, using a neck pickup clean is one of the most beautiful sounds to my ears. It's all about taste which does't matter much when you are relying on FOH to amplify the mix. If you are mic'ing through a PA then the benefit of you backline is nil.... except for maybe those in the front row. Again the concept of PA amplification is that your stage volume is for monitoring. If your backline is louder than your PA then you're pretty f'ing loud!

I will say power output is different as well. My XXX head using a 4x12 cab may be acceptable at 2 1/2 or 3.... yet using a 2 x12 I have to push it to 4-5 to hit the same audible volume.

If you are using a 2x12 and a 4x12.... then your stage volume is probably 1, right? :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Members
Danny (NS::U) Newbie

Danny (NS::U)

Posted
  • Members
Posted
I have also read that the difference between a 1/2 stack and a full stack (one amp head) is only 3 decipals. Is this true?



Yes, if both cabinets are of the same design.

Two 8-ohm cabinets in parallel present a 4-ohm load to the amp. The power present in the circuit doubles (because of Ohm's law), but each cabinet only receives half of that power. Thus, you have a situation where twice the acoustic power is present, giving a 3 dB boost. (Readily apparent, but not exactly a big difference.)

If thats the case, what is the difference between a 2x12 and a 4x12?



Assuming, again, that they're similar, the relationship should be the same as above.

The wattage of the head doesn't matter (all of this is ratios anyway), but a head that isn't capable of safely running a 4-ohm load is obviously not a candidate for this sort of thing.

And on a side note, I have never been told to turn it down (as someone said must always happen if you play thru a 1/2 stack:rolleyes: ). and I play thru a 4x12 + 2x12. But I also dont play with my volume on eleven.



I don't doubt it. There have been several times when I haven't been a tyrant about volume, because I could either work with it, or I realized that I really wasn't going to have any choice. I have also dealt with some really excellent guitar players who know the value of restraint. I'll go ahead and assume you're like those players.

Some of this may not make sense, as I am very tired and going to bed. I'll re-read it later... :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...