I'll admit it. I just don't see what the fascination is with you guys and your big-

[THB]

ass cabinets! Who the {censored} needs a 4-12 cabinet on the local level? How many times do you have to hear the phrase, "too damn loud" before you figure it out? I have an old Music Man 1-15 that I never use because it's just too much sound for most rooms. In my band we use low wattage amps so we can actually use them in the way they were designed, and they sound great. I'm convinced that most people buy big cabinets and amps because that's what their heroes play through........in coluseums!

 

 

[fastplant]

I run a JCM900 into a 2x10 cab.

[Matter-Eater Lad]

I have two (count 'em, 2!) Marshall 4X12 1960 cabs, A & B versions so I can make a full stack. For one, I like that I can get the sound from them up around my ears and second I really don't turn it up that loud. 4X12's work on 0.5, 1 or 10. 4X12 doesn't have to=loud. I side wash anyways, also. Plus they just look cool!

 

Look, it's music, it's about fun, no one "needs" anything. Hell, a Rockman plugged straight into the soundboard would suffice. Any takers for that set-up? Didn't think so.

[Guitar Centaur]

Originally posted by THB ass cabinets! Who the {censored} needs a 4-12 cabinet on the local level? How many times do you have to hear the phrase, "too damn loud" before you figure it out?

 

Volume nazi....

 

[Body Bomb]

Chill out, Terje!

 

No, I'm kidding.

 

Obviously, you don't play metal or punk. If you did, you'd quickly realize that your Princeton wasn't going to cut it.

[GZsound]

Everybody with a Marshall stack or similar setup, please make a note to get back to me in ten years so I can explain to you why your hearing is gone.

 

With the technology available today, there is absolutly no need for a wall of sound from amplifiers on stage. With the multi hundred thousand watt PA systems available, I cannot understand why there needs to be this huge crush of amps on stage.

 

You see concerts with heavy metal bands and the sound guy has an SM 57 stuck into ONE speaker and that is what the audience hears, the other fifteen or twenty speakers are simply to look cool, make the guitar player think he is actually that loud fifteen rows into the audience and for the same reason guys with little....err, you know, drive jacked up pickup trucks.

 

We learned years and years ago to let the PA carry the load and keep the stage volume reasonable so we can keep doing it for years without going deaf.

 

And if you are in a typical club band, working for peanuts, the damage you are doing to your hearing just simply isn't worth the cost of looking cool.

 

I was out in the house and backstage with Elvin Bishop in Alaska in the mid seventies. He was LOUD in the FOH mix. On stage? He was playing through a Fender Champ with everything turned up to ten.. what is that, a twenty five watt amp?

 

Somebody give Pete Townsend a call..

[fastplant]

Originally posted by GZsound lots of words.....

 

 

[pink floyd cramer]

Originally posted by GZsound Everybody with a Marshall stack or similar setup, please make a note to get back to me in ten years so I can explain to you why your hearing is gone.

 

My hearing is pretty damn fried just from being around loud-ass guitar players (I play keys) . I am discussing with my lawyer a class-action lawsuit against all gigging guitar players but if you wankers will just follow the advice of this thread I am willing to let it go.

[Preacher Will]

My live rig consists of:

Taylor 310->Baggs PADi->board

Fender Tele->POD->board

 

Yes, i can tell the difference between the POD and the real thing; but most of the audience can't . . .

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by THB In my band we use low wattage amps so we can actually use them in the way they were designed, and they sound great. I'm convinced that most people buy big cabinets and amps because that's what their heroes play through........in coluseums!

 

Well... here was how my own story went: when I was a kid I heard the Stones playing Ampeg V4's through giant 8x10 SVT cabinets and thought it was the greatest sound I'd ever heard. I knew that those size cabs weren't appropriate for clubs. But I also knew that Ampeg made smaller combos which supposedly had similar tone. I ended up finding a ca. 1970 Ampeg VT-40 - at 60 watts and 4x10, it was pretty much that V4/SVT rig cut in half. Perfect, right? Well, tonally, yes. I've had it since I was 16 and it's still the greatest sounding amp I've ever played. But you know... it's still too loud for the majority of clubs.

 

So what to do? Did Ampeg make an ever smaller amp? Yes, so I found out - they made a 1x10 combo in the early 70's and I managed to find one and buy it. Didn't last long. This amp simply didn't have the tone at all of its bigger brothers. I ended up selling it, and had to concede that a good deal of the time I would not be able to bring my favorite amp to gigs. That is still the case. I have some smaller amps now, and I'm considerate so I rarely get any complaints about volume... and it's not as if my Fender Pro Reverb, which I love, isn't a killer gigging amp, or that I don't really dig my little Reverend Goblin 1x10 combo that I use at a lot of gigs now too... but I have never found anything that equals my Ampeg in tone. And believe me I've looked long and hard.

 

I'll bet there are a lot of guitarists who would be happy to get smaller amps if they could find a sonic equal to their favorite. And recently some amp companies have started to answer the call, thus the glut of low wattage combos on the market now. But this is a fairly recent phenomenon and not all the big amp companies have really jumped on that bandwagon, or if they have, the smaller amps aren't necessarily as good as the big boys. The only other alternative is some very pricey small boutique amps. I wish it were otherwise.

[SpacedCowboy]

Because we can't hear ourselves over our drummer otherwise.

[HuskerDude]

Originally posted by SpacedCowboy Because we can't hear ourselves over our drummer otherwise.

 

Fire your drummer.

[machinegun78_2]

T....

 

 

I play thru a 60 watt Marshall half stack. Rich plays thru a Twin....with a 15. sorry, but we sound great in any club, at any level.

 

 

don't be hatin'......

 

by the way....he got your package.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

where's mine!

 

[THB]

Originally posted by machinegun78_2 T.... I play thru a 60 watt Marshall half stack. Rich plays thru a Twin....with a 15. sorry, but we sound great in any club, at any level. don't be hatin'...... by the way....he got your package. where's mine!

 

I ain't hatin', Gunny. Similarly, I don't begrudge anyone their favorite method of making music. But I am a firm believer that you don't need to make that kind of sound level on stage to be heard. {censored}, I play joints that don't have room on stage for a half stack. The sound from 4 12s don't even develop before they are out past the front of the stage and into the fifth row, so it's hard to know what you're doing onstage vis a vis the front of the house.

 

Re: your package? I'm a bit short of cash - what can we work out?

 

;)

 

 

And to Body Bomb, your attitude and your quip on what you assume I use for amplification: grow up, then go {censored} yourself.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I'm as pleased as I can be w/ the sound of my Teles through my 30-watt 1 X 10" combo, but I never turn it up beyond about 1/3 of the way...plenty loud enough for anywhere I've ever played.

Let the PA do the major amplification work!

 

And if a 4 X 12" cab (or two) is what you must have, then drive it with a 20-watt (or less) tube head...it'll push plenty of air and sound great, at a volume that's appropriate for any venue. And you can still appear bad-ass!

 

A buddy of mine's son-in-law has a Marshall 1960A that he's disconnected all but one 12" on, and (obviously) that's where he mics it from...he powers it with a gutted Marshal brain that now has the "innards" of a Fender Princeton (12w RMS, about 20 peaked)...cranked to "8", it sounds huge through the PA!

 

And he looks bad-ass to the audience, as any rocker must!

[caveman]

Sometimes what you think you need and what will get the job nicely are two different things. Everybody has their own comfort level. Use what you think you need and be happy.

 

Personally I use a 50 watt 2x12 ReverbRocket, an ancient 1x12 Gretsch or a 20 Watt Crate for backyard B-Day parties with neighbors close at hand.

[Brian Krashpad]

Some of the places we play don't mic any instruments.

 

A halfstack is perfectly reasonable in such a club.

 

Now a fullstack is getting to be too much for a club show, but not a halfstack. Not for a rock band.

 

I played two shows at two different venues this weekend, in two different bands. For one I used a 4x12, with a 50W head. For the other I used a 2x10 40W combo and a 2x12 extension cab.

 

The sound was not excessive in either application.

 

BK

[NoVaTa2iSt]

Most venues we play mic the kick, snare and vocals, i use a full stack to be heard in that mix, a half stack doesnt have the projection that the P.A. has.

[SpacedCowboy]

Originally posted by HuskerDude Fire your drummer.

 

Can I get my rig out of his van first?

 

Oh, wait...it's actually on loan from my guitar player...never mind.

 

[Inazone]

For a typical club gig on a decent-sized stage, I use a 4x10 combo or a 2x12 combo and 2x12 extension cab. Both combos are 50W tube amps, and with the volume at 4, I'm too loud.

 

If the monitoring situation is poor, or there isn't a PA, I can see the point of a half-stack in a club. Other than for looks, the only practical purpose I see for a full stack in such a case would be to have a cab on each side of the stage.

[vonscott]

Depends on the space I have, if I can I love to run a full stack. I think it looks cool and love the sound up by my head not my legs, I run my pitbull at 50 watts and keep reasonable stage volume though.

 

Something we tried and liked with my other guitar player was running my guitar through his bottom cab and my top, his guitar through my bottom cab and and his top. It helped to get a great stage mix without having to run guitar in the monitors.

 

If I dont have room I run my xxx combo tilted up or on a stand.

[RupertB]

Originally posted by GZsound Everybody with a Marshall stack or similar setup, please make a note to get back to me in ten years so I can explain to you why your hearing is gone...

Not to mention your back.

 

I understand why someone would want a 4x12 closed-back cab: There is a quality of sound (not to say better or worse) that a smaller open-back cab just doesn't get. However, your point is well taken that they are impractical for playing smaller venues, not to mention a pain in the ass in the hands of a "What I lack in skill I make up for in volume" type.

 

My beef with this sort of rig is that they (closed back 4x12 cabs) are extremely directional. In most cases, if they aren't fed through the PA system, they blow away the folks standing front and center, they aren't heard well by those in the wings, and the mix is only good at the mixing console.

[MDLMUSIC]

Back in the 70's I was playing with a bunch of different rock bands. At the time I had a Fernder Super Reverb combo amp and even though it was plenty loud for any gig we did, the other guys in the bands didn't think it had "the look".

 

I built a regfrigerator-sized frame (about 6 foot high by 4 feet wide) out of plywood that I painted black and covered the front with grillcloth. I installed a 1/4" jack on the top and ran a wire down the inside to a 1/4" plug.

 

When I got to the gig, I set my Fender amp inside the box, plugged my guitar into the jack on the refrigerator box and plugged that plug into the Fender.

 

Everybody was very impressed with my "amp" and I can even recall hearing audience comments like, "He must be good...look at the size of that amp!"

[THB]

Originally posted by MDLMUSIC Back in the 70's I was playing with a bunch of different rock bands. At the time I had a Fernder Super Reverb combo amp and even though it was plenty loud for any gig we did, the other guys in the bands didn't think it had "the look". I built a regfrigerator-sized frame (about 6 foot high by 4 feet wide) out of plywood that I painted black and covered the front with grillcloth. I installed a 1/4" jack on the top and ran a wire down the inside to a 1/4" plug. When I got to the gig, I set my Fender amp inside the box, plugged my guitar into the jack on the refrigerator box and plugged that plug into the Fender. Everybody was very impressed with my "amp" and I can even recall hearing audience comments like, "He must be good...look at the size of that amp!"

 

:D

 

Just goes to show you! I was watching the DVD of Springsteen & the E Street Band in Madison Square Garden and while Bruce has 2 Marshall 4-12 cabs laid almost all the way on their backs, Steve Van Zandt uses a Fender Deluxe.

 

[GZsound]

Well, thankfully, most of you guitar players seem to understand my point.

 

In my six piece show band from 75 to 80 we had small Gallien-Kruger amps under the legs of the Rhodes on one side and the B3 on the other....tilted back facing the guitar players..not even facing front.

 

I miced the entire band and ran sound from stage and we were as loud as we ever needed to be for audiences of three hundred to six hundred folks.

 

And I never had to worry about the guitar players being unable to hear their amps.

 

I now run my keyboards direct through the mains and I have an eight inch JBL with a piezo horn little monitor cabinet mounted on the side of my keyboard stand. It carries all the vocals, my sax and my three keyboards..driven by a fifty watt Stewart half rack amp..

 

And I can still hear just fine.. I would not play in a band anymore with huge overly loud cabinets on stage. Our guitar player uses a Peavey Bandit turned up to two at the most.. Just an on stage monitor, the PA carries the guitar just fine.