Frustration! Frustration! Do young, good, interested players exist?!

[MetallicBlueAx]

So I've been in this band, or more likely I should say I've been this band for about 3 and a half years now. I am 18 years old. I play guitar and sing lead. I've written all the music, I have had to be the one to drag people to get them to do anything, that kind of thing. I guess that's what being a "leader" is all about? Seems like something isn't quite right... We've been looking for a few musicians to fill in the gaps of departed members. Bassist, Guitarist, Tenor Sax player, or possibly Keyboard though that's not what we had before.

 

Monkey Jacket Myspace

 

There have been many people in and out of the band. The list of reasons could be explained out in detail, but to sum it up, it's usually been something like a lack of real dedication or interest. Fine, I don't really mind. People are different. But I'd like to be with a group of people who share alot of the same goals and ideas.

 

I want people who are coming to practice, doing their best, and then going home and playing their instrument there too because, as crazy as it sounds, they actually enjoy it! Not people who come to practice because they have created "friends" (cliques) in the group and coming just because of that, or people who just want to come so they can claim "I'm in a band!", not people who leave their instruments at my house for weeks at a time with no way to play at home... arg!

 

Now after really trying something different, and being more selective so that the same things don't happen again, it really becomes apparent. Young, good musicians are incredibly hard to find! I mean, I wonder what the percentage is. It's gotta be way down there. And if they ARE any good, there's some sort of other catch in the way. Like they have an impossible schedule. Why can't anyone have a good grasp of some theory, or at least how to form BASIC CHORDS, and know the notes on the fretboard, have some good chops, and an easy schedule?

 

Another part of it is, I wouldn't mind playing with older guys at all. Not too long ago, I tried out for a band with some guys in their 30's, and they were interested in having me. That was a really cool feeling, being that I'm so much younger. I guess to me it makes sense somewhat, because I feel like I am talented. I spend practically every minute of everyday thinking about music or my band and trying to really make it something. BUT, I think many older musicians automatically assume that younger musicians are bad. Well, I know have stuff to learn, but we're not ALL bad. But god damn, after seeing so many musicians my age, I know exactly why older musicians have the assumption. It's not a bad one really... just not 100% true.

 

So to sum it all up. Where's all the musicians who are really serious? I'm talking interest, dedication, TALENT, friendship, personality, etc. Where are they? How do I find 'em? How do I convince older musicians I have some talent? (And if you disagree with this after listening to the music, go ahead and say it! I wanna hear what people have to say. I know the music that we have currently isn't a great description of my personal abilities, but at least possibly the abilities of organizing some, in my opinion, relatively tight-sounding songs).

 

Apologies for the past paragraphs being more of a rant than a logical thought process... let's see what anyone can make out of it.

[Cooley]

Aye,

 

You be having the same problem that virtually every band leader faces from time to time.

 

I can kinda relate to it...even though The Albino Penguin (my band) formed more outta me and my friends jamming and joking around,it still bugs me when we can't get a jam session together because someone has to go to a baseball game or similar circumstances. All you can do is try to relax and practice as much as possible and tell them to get their asses in gear...that or form a new band and pick better members but your band sounds pretty good from the musical side. Truth be told,at times I've had better jam sessions with my father than with my band:freak:.

 

As for getting the older people to appriciate you more,I really have no clue...I've jammed with many older folks but would never consider forming a band with them really...so I can't help ya there.

 

~Cooley

[Scafeets]

I really like your stuff. I guess "Hello Solo" is autobigraphical, huh? I hear the Oingo Boingo and Reel Big Fish influence, and that's a good thing.

 

Most, if not all of us, have gone through that frustrating phase where people keep coming and going through the band. It's hard to find a group of kindred spirits with the right chemistry and same taste in music.

 

Here are some observations, based on my doing this for a long time. First of all: If it's your songs and you're the lead singer, are you looking to the band for collaboration, or do you want people to execute your vision? There's no right answer to that...but different people want different things out of a band situation.

 

Next, give yourself an honest appraisal as a band leader, songwriter, performer and person. Do you provide adequate space and equipment? Do you let the players know what you're looking for? Do you listen to their feedback? Take a step back and think: "If I was a sideman, is this the guy I would invest a lot of free time with?"

 

Some players -- unfortunately it's often the better ones -- want to know that there are paying gigs in their future. Six months in the basement to then go out and play free showcases will not be an appealing option for a player who has chops, equipment, personality and options. Have a plan and share it with prospective bandmates.

 

Sad but true: Looks matter. If you're the front man, take a look in the mirror. Remember, sidemen can get away with murder, but the guy out front will be scrutinized mercilessly by other musicians, fans, agents, club owners, promoters, labels, etc.

 

I hope this is a good start...

[The*Ataris]

Welcome to an interesting part of your life. Getting people to commit to music at your age isn't easy. Between school, social life, work, girlfriends, whatever, it's really difficult to find people who really want to be in a band...

 

I just turned 22 and I know what you're feeling. Bands were really easy to do in high school. Everyone always had time, there was always somewhere to play and practice, and your peers were an instant fan base. It took me almost 4 years to hunt down musicians who were on the same page, but even now, it's a LOT more work...

 

Best place to find other musicians? Shows...

 

Guaranteed, a surpising amount of people watching local shows are people who play instruments in their spare time and wish they were in a band themselves. Guitar players, keyboard players, everything. I've made a lot of contacts in all facets of the local music scene just talking to people at bars and clubs...

 

Yeah, maybe it would be wise to find some people that are a little older and aren't so caught up in college and social scenes...

[The*Ataris]

Really good post, Scafeets...

 

 

Originally posted by Scafeets Some players -- unfortunately it's often the better ones -- want to know that there are paying gigs in their future. Six months in the basement to then go out and play free showcases will not be an appealing option for a player who has chops, equipment, personality and options. Have a plan and share it with prospective bandmates.

 

 

In addition to that, I'd like to add that most serious musicians are going to gravitate to new and exciting music. I mean, I liked 3rd wave ska as much as anybody...in '97/'98, when it was happening, but it's not something that inspires me anymore.

 

You're a good singer and it's apparent that you know how to write a catchy song, maybe explore some different influences?

[light_without_heat]

Good stuff man. I like the sound of your voice mixed with the straightforward rockers. I too front a band and have struggled with recruiting members as of late. Just stick with it and know that you can always rely on yourself. That's a lot if you think about it. I hope you have some luck in the future recruiting band members.

 

-light

[sharnrock]

I like your music.

[rhat]

 

Originally posted by MetallicBlueAx So I've been in this band, or more likely I should say I've been this band for about 3 and a half years now. I am 18 years old. I play guitar and sing lead. I've written all the music, I have had to be the one to drag people to get them to do anything, that kind of thing. I guess that's what being a "leader" is all about? Seems like something isn't quite right... We've been looking for a few musicians to fill in the gaps of departed members. Bassist, Guitarist, Tenor Sax player, or possibly Keyboard though that's not what we had before. Monkey Jacket Myspace There have been many people in and out of the band. The list of reasons could be explained out in detail, but to sum it up, it's usually been something like a lack of real dedication or interest. Fine, I don't really mind. People are different. But I'd like to be with a group of people who share alot of the same goals and ideas. I want people who are coming to practice, doing their best, and then going home and playing their instrument there too because, as crazy as it sounds, they actually enjoy it! Not people who come to practice because they have created "friends" (cliques) in the group and coming just because of that, or people who just want to come so they can claim "I'm in a band!", not people who leave their instruments at my house for weeks at a time with no way to play at home... arg! Now after really trying something different, and being more selective so that the same things don't happen again, it really becomes apparent. Young, good musicians are incredibly hard to find! I mean, I wonder what the percentage is. It's gotta be way down there. And if they ARE any good, there's some sort of other catch in the way. Like they have an impossible schedule. Why can't anyone have a good grasp of some theory, or at least how to form BASIC CHORDS, and know the notes on the fretboard, have some good chops, and an easy schedule? Another part of it is, I wouldn't mind playing with older guys at all. Not too long ago, I tried out for a band with some guys in their 30's, and they were interested in having me. That was a really cool feeling, being that I'm so much younger. I guess to me it makes sense somewhat, because I feel like I am talented. I spend practically every minute of everyday thinking about music or my band and trying to really make it something. BUT, I think many older musicians automatically assume that younger musicians are bad. Well, I know have stuff to learn, but we're not ALL bad. But god damn, after seeing so many musicians my age, I know exactly why older musicians have the assumption. It's not a bad one really... just not 100% true. So to sum it all up. Where's all the musicians who are really serious? I'm talking interest, dedication, TALENT, friendship, personality, etc. Where are they? How do I find 'em? How do I convince older musicians I have some talent? (And if you disagree with this after listening to the music, go ahead and say it! I wanna hear what people have to say. I know the music that we have currently isn't a great description of my personal abilities, but at least possibly the abilities of organizing some, in my opinion, relatively tight-sounding songs). Apologies for the past paragraphs being more of a rant than a logical thought process... let's see what anyone can make out of it.

 

 

 

tough situation. I listened to your stuff, There is some good talent. Good vocals with harmony How many members in the band? I would think the members would want to spend some time with the music. Whats your situation ,, do you have paying gigs ,, or are you doing the 4 band whirly gigs where you have to promote to get your cut? rat

[MetallicBlueAx]

Glad I got a good amount of responses. Thanks for those who said they liked the music! Ok, I'm up for a challenge...

 

Cooley:

Exactly. It's like most people think it's outrageous to be practicing a ton and getting stuff done than going out and partying or whatever... I live to play music, period. Right now, it's basically all I need. I can imagine that's not the case for everyone, but it seems like even get people remotely close is tough. I know they gotta be out there, and I don't think it's impossible really, I guess its just a venting situation right now and seeing what other people think. As for you jamming with your dad... ha! It's funny, cuz just recently I had a big jam session with my dad and his musician friends, all in their 50's or so, and that was such a good feeling to 1. Be able to jump on most of the songs and not be lost, and 2. Be able to jam with people who can pick up a song (even some originals I wrote) and jam on it their first time through. I'm not even looking for people who are THAT good!

 

Scafeets

You hit the nail on the head. That song is autobiographical all the way. As for me being a leader... here's how I look at that. I guess I've always recognized that I'm the "leader". But I've always tried to get people to just think of it as a big team... if they come up with ideas, that's great. I'm totally willing to collaborate with people. On the other hand, it's not a necessity. I love writing and hey, it's probably a lot of writer's dreams to write stuff exactly how they want it and people come play it just like that. Maybe not a reality, but I'm not expecting that. I'm open to either way. But I feel like when people realize there's that openness, they slack off.

 

Your second question... we have a very nice sound system and definitely enough space to practice with. I've gone the extra mile and tried to even put some foam in our practice area to cut down on the sounds that are really killing our ears. It's definitely not professional, but it's more than adequate, for sure. Loud enough PA, and totally enough room. Our drummer even uses my own kit when he plays, which I don't mind at all, just brings a few of his things along (cymbals/snare). I definitely try to let people know what I'm thinking... and I always even encourage them to give their thoughts. I realize now most of the time is... they just don't care. A few of the guys now, the one's still in, are a bit better about it (I won't go into extreme detail). This goes back to, I try to let everyone give as much input as they want. Unfortunately I think people would rather sit around and wait for me to do something about it.

 

I know, paying gigs definitely would make for a bigger audience of musicians to pick from. I guess right now it's just about exposing the band to a bigger audience. But it's always been the case where we don't have a steady enough band to really get out and play alot of gigs consistantly, ecspecially ones for money. I know the tough thing right now is most people will look at us, maybe think we're pretty decent musically, but then think "Why should I really join this band? They aren't doing anything." Well... we would if we had a really tight, solid band!

 

And as for looks... here's my profile on BandMix:

BandMix

 

The*Ataris

I hear ya... maybe I'll get out to some more shows and see who might be out there. Seems like that's a good way to go.

 

And, your 2nd post, ARG! Frustrates me. This is why... I know for a fact people look at us and think, SKA BAND! Which I can't stand, even though from our music online, it's basically true. I feel like we are bit more diverse than your average "Ska band", but our newer material is definitely going to jump away from the genre a bit. It's funny, because I like ska, but I find myself listening to... plenty. Zappa, Mr. Bungle, Led Zeppelin, Reggie and the Full Effect, The Black Dahlia Murder, etc. The list goes on and on... I definitely want to incorporate more styles as time goes on.

 

 

light_without_heat and sharnrock

Thank you!

 

rhat

Thanks. Four members when we did the CD (the songs on Myspace). 3 now (looking for 2 more to fill in gaps). Not really paying gigs consistantly now, only sparingly, and usually it would just go into some fund that we would use to get more stuff like merch or promotion on Purevolume or so.

 

 

That was a long post.

[rhat]

[

 

 

That was a long post.

 

What players did you lose? any chance of thowin in with yoru dad and doing a little geezer rock. Do they have a working band? rat

[MetallicBlueAx]

The players lost/gotten rid of were... guitarist/keyboard, bassist, and trumpet. Not really too worried about replacing the trumpet player right now, and maybe even just surviving for a while as a 4 piece, just getting a bassist (Guitar, Bass, Drums, Trombone/Keyboard) and advertising we need another member at shows.

 

My dad doesn't have a group, it was just a once in a blue moon get together with some musicians friends, so that's not really an option, but if it was I might be open to it.

 

We might jump back in the studio to put down 2 new songs so that people can hear what our new sound is going for. Maybe that will attract some ears and the musicians attached to them a bit better...

[Cooley]

 

Originally posted by MetallicBlueAx We might jump back in the studio to put down 2 new songs so that people can hear what our new sound is going for. Maybe that will attract some ears and the musicians attached to them a bit better...

 

 

Sounds good...just play your hearts out and anything can happen.

 

You certainly have the talent necessary for making that type of thing happen:thu:

[Scafeets]

 

Originally posted by The*Ataris Really good post, Scafeets... In addition to that, I'd like to add that most serious musicians are going to gravitate to new and exciting music. I mean, I liked 3rd wave ska as much as anybody...in '97/'98, when it was happening, but it's not something that inspires me anymore. You're a good singer and it's apparent that you know how to write a catchy song, maybe explore some different influences?

 

 

I understand where you're coming from... After all, pop music is something of a slave to fashion and trends, and maybe moreso now. But quality original music generally transcends all that.

 

If MetallicBlueAx wants to be influenced by Reel Big Fish and some other "late-90s" sounds, I'd say go for it, provided that's the direction he truly feels.

 

In the early 70s, Aerosmith was written off as a Rolling Stones wanna-be band. Then the Black Crowes. They both found their own voice after a few tours and albums, but were warned (by so-called industry experts) that they had affected a passe sound for influence.

 

Damn...if someone came along today and sounded like they were heavily influenced by Hendrix, Santana or Clapton...or sang like Janis Joplin, early Rod Stewart or James Brown --- would that be a bad thing?

[The*Ataris]

Hey, I'd really like to emphasize that I didn't mean to come off as an asshole in ska comment--I'm just telling you the truth. Ska is a novelty act at this point...

 

Funny timing, I suppose, but we're going up against Reel Big Fish tonight. We're both headlining the two good all-ages clubs and I bet they draw a lot bigger crowd than we do, but let's face it, they're riding an album they released TEN YEARS AGO.

 

Yeah, there's still a niche crowd of kids that dress up, go see the one ska band in town that still plays, and skank around for a couple of hours, but a "3rd wave" ska band isn't going to take over the world anymore. Despite what that niche group of kids think, most serious musicians know it...

[kurfu]

Maybe a bit of a cliche' but...

 

 

Pick two:

-young

-good

-interested

 

 

[sventvkg]

My observation has been what I consider to be good playing is almost impossible to find in the younger generation of players. I'm 35 but came up playing with cats 10+ years older then me and I can hang. I haven't found anyone my age or younger that can hang with me anywhere and it's frustrating as hell because I've been trying to put a band together since I moved and left my last one in 03. I fear most of the guys that are the level I need to play with are retired.

 

My advice my young friend, you're going to have to play with people older then you. If you are truly good then you'll be at a more mature level musically speaking anyway. It will be good for ya. Good luck to you.

[MetallicBlueAx]

The*Ataris

I hear you. I don't want to be a SKA band. I don't think that a band should be labeled just that for incoporating stuff like that into the music though... I think most people don't even know what ska is. Reggae, yeah. And I think lots of people enjoy reggae. Ska band = bad. Skanking = bad. Not trying to sound egotistical or anything, but it's very uncommon that we get a bad reaction when we play. Unless, that is, someone is obsessed with the genre of music we play and decides to not like it just because of the name attached to it... and then there are times when hey, people just got different tastes. No problem!

 

Kurfu

Hahaha, so far it seems like that's how it's been.

 

sventvkg

Thank you very much. Now I guess it's just time to go and find those people! One way or another. I'm confident in time, something will happen!

[pink floyd cramer]

I would think that new talent would mostly be coming from the loins of the old gunslingers such as yourselves. Get busy and propogate.

[Scafeets]

I propogated, and grew me a damn fine singer/songwriter/guitarist/bassist/saxamophone player. Of course, now he doesn't have any time for me and my music..

[Lee Flier]

Well first of all, good, dedicated musicians are never easy to find at any age. There are a lot of people who basically think of music as "just a hobby" and don't take it very seriously - even if they actually think they're gonna be big rock stars someday.

 

Second, I agree with pretty much everybody so far that you do indeed have a lot of talent and a lot going for you, and you should have no trouble convincing older people to play with you. I always played with older people when I was your age for the same reason - I didn't really know anybody my age who was really good, really dedicated and into the same kind of music.

 

And Ataris, I don't think he mentioned anything about "wanting to set the world on fire," he just seems to want to make the best music he can that he really enjoys. It doesn't have to be the "latest trend" and he seems creative enough that it's quite possible he'll take this kind of music in a direction that hasn't been done before and that people will like - enough people to keep him going, anyway. And one surefire guarantee that you WON'T succeed is if you start doing music other than what you really love, just because somebody tells you that it isn't trendy.

 

Anyhow... yes it can be discouraging trying to get, and keep, a good group of people together but don't give up. I'm sure there are lots of people who would find it inspiring to work with you and don't be afraid to approach anybody. Even if you think they wouldn't want to have anything to do with you. You might be surprised.

[John Ellis]

Originally posted by Scafeets I propogated, and grew me a damn fine singer/songwriter/guitarist/bassist/saxamophone player. Of course, now he doesn't have any time for me and my music..

 

 

I'm growing an up and coming drummer. He's 10 so I still have a little control.

[pink floyd cramer]

Originally posted by John Ellis I'm growing an up and coming drummer. He's 10 so I still have a little control.

 

Congrats to you and Scafeets and all the other HC "propogaters"

I can only imagine the joy you feel- and live- every day of your lives. Keep up the good work!

[sventvkg]

Originally posted by Lee Flier Well first of all, good, dedicated musicians are never easy to find at any age. There are a lot of people who basically think of music as "just a hobby" and don't take it very seriously - even if they actually think they're gonna be big rock stars someday. Second, I agree with pretty much everybody so far that you do indeed have a lot of talent and a lot going for you, and you should have no trouble convincing older people to play with you. I always played with older people when I was your age for the same reason - I didn't really know anybody my age who was really good, really dedicated and into the same kind of music. And Ataris, I don't think he mentioned anything about "wanting to set the world on fire," he just seems to want to make the best music he can that he really enjoys. It doesn't have to be the "latest trend" and he seems creative enough that it's quite possible he'll take this kind of music in a direction that hasn't been done before and that people will like - enough people to keep him going, anyway. And one surefire guarantee that you WON'T succeed is if you start doing music other than what you really love, just because somebody tells you that it isn't trendy. Anyhow... yes it can be discouraging trying to get, and keep, a good group of people together but don't give up. I'm sure there are lots of people who would find it inspiring to work with you and don't be afraid to approach anybody. Even if you think they wouldn't want to have anything to do with you. You might be surprised.

 

[ZeppelinPie792]

I feel all of your pain about the annoying band members that see music as a hobby. Music is basically life to me. I may not be the best, but I am going to pour out my blood sweat and tears into my music.

[The*Ataris]

 

Originally posted by MetallicBlueAx The*Ataris I hear you. I don't want to be a SKA band. I don't think that a band should be labeled just that for incoporating stuff like that into the music though... I think most people don't even know what ska is. Reggae, yeah. And I think lots of people enjoy reggae. Ska band = bad. Skanking = bad. Not trying to sound egotistical or anything, but it's very uncommon that we get a bad reaction when we play. Unless, that is, someone is obsessed with the genre of music we play and decides to not like it just because of the name attached to it... and then there are times when hey, people just got different tastes. No problem!

 

 

Well, I think you're taking the right approach then. There's absolutely nothing wrong with drawing influence from in important (at least in my opinion) musical movement from the late 80's to late 90's. I'm pretty sure my life would be completely different if I had never run into bands like Less Than Jake, Operation Ivy, The Suicide Machines, Home Grown, The Aquabats, etc.

 

...but you notice how all those bands kind of moved on too?

 

It's a hard genre to hate. It's very happy sounding, danceable...