Members TKnapp Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Our four piece just grew to five with a keyboard player. Is it customary to ask for more $$ from the regular places you play? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members axemanchris Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Not really. The bar doesn't care how many people are in your band - so long as you can bring people out who will drink. They won't pay more for you simply because you have an extra person. Unless, of course, you're a unionized band, and then all that goes out the window. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 That's right. The gigs are booked by the job, not by how many guys you have. Clubs work with a budget, and they don't make any more money because you have an extra guy. You can ask, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Well it could never hurt to ask. I agree with the others... unless adding the new member dramatically increases your draw (and the till at the end of the night) then do not expect the bar to pay more cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Roberts Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 I doubt you'll get more. Clubs book bands, so the pay is the same if there's 2 of you or 12. Many bands have gone to 3 piece or duets for that reason. Less ways to split the money. It's been that way for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TKnapp Posted February 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 I kinda figured that was the case. I suppose if we start drawing in more people then we might be able to negotiate a bit. Thanks folks. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PJR Posted February 23, 2007 Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 I agree with all.....the band is complete unit regardless of member count and should be judged and paid according to their value to the club.( performance / draw , etc) That said....I've had dealings with clubs that work the member count to their advantage...... "we only pay $100 / member " Fortunate for me....I don't need those clubs anymore........idiots. PJR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SPONGEBOB Posted February 23, 2007 Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 I agree.. You will get less money.. However I HAVE seen instances when a band decreased in size from 6 to 5, or 5 to 4, and the friggin' club owner tried to decrease the pay by a corresponding amount...Its all about the owner, , The only time a band has power, is when they have a good draw at any particular club, and regularly make money for the owner.. Only then will you have any negotiating power, especially if there are competing clubs in the area that will hire the band.. No draw = no power.. you are a group of slaves to the owners whim despite whatever immense talent you possess...They dicate terms and you either jump to meet them or walk...Too many bands are desperate for club work and the owners know it... bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnnyX Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 good grief! of course u get more pay! if u dont you're a wimp (you're = GQ public) holy {censored} are u kidding me! you tell them right away you're adding another piece and u will be charging more! that way you can negotiate with them if they dont see the diff and it dont sound any better u keep the same pay. work it out with-in the band, u keep the same pay and agree across the board u split it evenly across the board for the keyboard audition on the gig for 1 gig only. the next gig after that u should have the extra money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Band = gig = negotiated price. However, Many years ago in a faraway place called New Jersey, I booked my three-piece (union) band into a college mixer. Generally, we were the opening act for big-name groups, so being in the union was a necessity. We were playing in a big room in front of 500 people, and because the last thing you want in North Jersey is Union Trouble, I filed a contract so the blood-suckers at the local could get their 4% work dues. We're setting up and the "business agent" (bag man) for the union local shows up and says "Oh no -- you can't play this gig as a trio!"I say, Why not?"You're gonna have 500 people here. 500 people means you gotta have 5 musicians minimum." Lucky for you, I can call a coupla guys from the local and have them here in time for the gig."Thinking quickly, and knowing I had friends in a (union) Jersey band that wasn't working that night, I said "That's cool. Sometimes we go out as a quintet. I'll have my other guys show up in time."Showtime, and the union agent comes back to find the trio on stage and two guys sitting on the corner of the stage in folding chairs. I handed him a new union contract specifying: "Lead guitar, Bass, Drums, Lead Folding Chair, Rhythm Folding Chair."He was pissed, but it was legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TKnapp Posted February 28, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Scafeets: That's freakin' great! Lead folding chair! (Thread creep alert) Is the union still as big as it once was? I have never had any situation concerning them come up. I've only played in small'ish bars in cover bands. Were we too small potaoes to worry about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Haven't encountered the union since I moved to the South. Probably still a big factor around NYC, where I played a lot back in the day. It really used to piss me off that these old farts (Hey -Waitaminute -- Now I'm the old fart!) who worked weddings & bar mitzvas ran the Jersey locals and the Broadway pit musicians ran local 802 (NYC.) Those guys hated us long-hairs and did everything they could to take our money. In return, we got no protection, no benefits -- nada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Band = gig = negotiated price. However, Many years ago in a faraway place called New Jersey, I booked my three-piece (union) band into a college mixer. Generally, we were the opening act for big-name groups, so being in the union was a necessity. We were playing in a big room in front of 500 people, and because the last thing you want in North Jersey is Union Trouble, I filed a contract so the blood-suckers at the local could get their 4% work dues. We're setting up and the "business agent" (bag man) for the union local shows up and says "Oh no -- you can't play this gig as a trio!" I say, Why not? "You're gonna have 500 people here. 500 people means you gotta have 5 musicians minimum." Lucky for you, I can call a coupla guys from the local and have them here in time for the gig." Thinking quickly, and knowing I had friends in a (union) Jersey band that wasn't working that night, I said "That's cool. Sometimes we go out as a quintet. I'll have my other guys show up in time." Showtime, and the union agent comes back to find the trio on stage and two guys sitting on the corner of the stage in folding chairs. I handed him a new union contract specifying: "Lead guitar, Bass, Drums, Lead Folding Chair, Rhythm Folding Chair." He was pissed, but it was legal. That was just awsome, I want to try out for lead folding chair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Scaf, that used to grind me to no end. When I was on the road the agency I booked out of required us to be union, and just about every town we played, the little old guy with the checkered pants, corduroy jacket with the elbow pads and bad toupee would show up to collect the job taxes and trespassing fees. Yet, whe we got stiffed oin a gig, we were told "Hey, get a lawyer, we're not in the legal business!" and as a young kid starting out, when I needed a gig, it was "Get an agent! We're not a booking agency". Basically all they did was take my money and tell me where I couldn't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Scaf, that used to grind me to no end. When I was on the road the agency I booked out of required us to be union, and just about every town we played, the little old guy with the checkered pants, corduroy jacket with the elbow pads and bad toupee would show up to collect the job taxes and trespassing fees. Yet, whe we got stiffed oin a gig, we were told "Hey, get a lawyer, we're not in the legal business!" and as a young kid starting out, when I needed a gig, it was "Get an agent! We're not a booking agency". Basically all they did was take my money and tell me where I couldn't play. Exactly: and "checkered pants, corduroy jacket with the elbow pads and bad toupee " seemed to be the uniform. Here's a transcript from an actual phone conversation with my former guitar teacher (who was also the president of the musicians' union local) Him: "Hey! Congrats on the big gig coming up this weekend. I see you're opening for B.B. King. Dontcha think it's time you joined the union?" Me: Well, Lou -- ya know we're really tight for cash. I figure as soon as we get out of debt, we'll join up. I know we have to sign up before we go into the studio and we're talking to three labels right now, soi I figure we'll join this summer." Him: "Let me put it this way" You don't join right now, you don't play on Saturday night!" 7 piece band X $100 each "Initiation fee" plus 4% of the Sat. gig money. ({censored}ers) We make $500 and pay out $720. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 There seems to always be a way to legaly steal from musicians:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drixll Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Our four piece just grew to five with a keyboard player. Is it customary to ask for more $$ from the regular places you play? Tom does he have a lot of friends who will come through the door? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fendercaster Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 We played a place and booked it for $400. We were a three piece group and though the owner paid us, he griped about paying musicians more than $100 apiece. In the future, we always took a fourth piece, just to keep him happy. Places to play weren't too plentiful and we didn't want to lose the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Electric Catfish Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 WTF Fender? That's {censored}ed...as though it's a BAD thing to pay a band what he could afford. What should it matter? It's the same amount of money out of his pocket. Does he have a problem with musicians trying not to be impoverished or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 We played a place and booked it for $400. We were a three piece group and though the owner paid us, he griped about paying musicians more than $100 apiece. In the future, we always took a fourth piece, just to keep him happy. Places to play weren't too plentiful and we didn't want to lose the room. You know, that really hacks me off when those guys do that. I'm a finish carpenter by trade. I bid a job for a guy, 50 cents a square foot to trim his basement, which was the going rate at the time. he agreed. It was an 1100 square foot basement, with 5 doors, two closets, a wall cap and baseboard. I was done in 7 hours. I presented him with a bill for 550 dollars, and he began to whine. "Golly, that's a lot of money for one guy for less than a full day's work" and so on. I asked him there was anything lacking with the work. "No", he said, "it looks great." I asked if he argued with his doctor or his mechanic about the prices they charge. He said it was different, because I didn't have to go to school to learn my trade. And I told him that he wasn't paying me for what I did, he was paying me for what I know. The fact that I found a way to do his job cleanly and to his satisfaction in less than a day had no bearing on our agreement. Likewise, it should be the same way with a club owner. If you can draw a crowd and sell drinks, what difference does it make to him if you're a trio or a 6 piece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted March 1, 2007 Members Share Posted March 1, 2007 That sucks, my wife charges $100 an hour to play a show. Then agian I play for peanuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LiveMusic Posted March 1, 2007 Members Share Posted March 1, 2007 We played a place and booked it for $400. We were a three piece group and though the owner paid us, he griped about paying musicians more than $100 apiece. In the future, we always took a fourth piece, just to keep him happy. Places to play weren't too plentiful and we didn't want to lose the room. Zakly, except with my guy, it's $50. I played once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members les_rokr Posted March 1, 2007 Members Share Posted March 1, 2007 I don't recommend asking the club owner for more money..You might piss him/her off, And he may lose respect for you or never let you play there again.Last one's unlikey, but you never know what could happen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Hiryuu Posted March 1, 2007 Members Share Posted March 1, 2007 I agree.. You will get less money.. However I HAVE seen instances when a band decreased in size from 6 to 5, or 5 to 4, and the friggin' club owner tried to decrease the pay by a corresponding amount...Its all about the owner, Perhaps that's why Slipknot has (or at least had) 9 members... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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