Corporate Party Band

[Deeprig9]

There's nothing melodramatic about it.

[Stagebandit]

There's nothing melodramatic about it.

The bench comment was what I was referring to.

[Stagebandit]

Five piece, actually. The lead singer and guitarist are married...and she doesn't golf. Come to Montgomery, some time...you and the missus can play a set with us.

Thanks! Don't you guys play Birmingham? My best buddy just move there and I plan to visit him soon. Maybe we can check you guys out if you have a public appearance.

[pitchgirl]

This simply isn't true. Most people here have stated that it will take money/bookings. Why the defeatist attitude? Is it the fact that he's a DJ? Don't harsh the new guy just because it's not something that you'd be interested in. No offense meant, but I seem to recall everyone here being supportive of you when you were looking for advice.

A little harsh of me? Perhaps...
Actually, I had already decided for myself, that was probably the case.
Sorry to Jerrard.... it's "ragtime," if you know what I mean...

Why the attitude, however? It has nothing to do with him being a DJ. It was the whole....Why rent when I can own? Why go retail when I can get wholesale, or whatever he said...It just sounded slimy.

As far as my advice was concerned, I don't even see how you can compare the two scenarios. You are comparing apples and oranges, really...

Besides, I HAVE taken a little heat for expressing unpopular opinion. Everything I have written here has not been supported. So, the whole pot calling the kettle lack logic is null...

No offense to you, either...
and regards....

[Stagebandit]

A little harsh of me? Perhaps... Actually, I had already decided for myself, that was probably the case. Sorry to Jerrard.... it's "ragtime," if you know what I mean... Why the attitude, however? It has nothing to do with him being a DJ. It was the whole.... Why rent when I can own? Why go retail when I can get wholesale , or whatever he said...It just sounded slimy. As far as my advice was concerned, I don't even see how you can compare the two scenarios. You are comparing apples and oranges, really... Besides, I HAVE taken a little heat for expressing unpopular opinion. Everything I have written here has not been supported. So, the whole pot calling the kettle lack logic is null... No offense to you, either... and regards....

Regards right back.



Good thread! Lots of good thoughts.

[cooterbrown]

 

Thanks! Don't you guys play Birmingham? My best buddy just move there and I plan to visit him soon. Maybe we can check you guys out if you have a public appearance.

 

 

Well, unfortunately, we only do privates in B'ham.

Montgomery (where the band is based out of) is the only place we do club gigs.

[Jerrard]

Why buy retail when I can buy factory direct? Why rent when I can own?

 

 

I admit that may have come off a little slimy but the principle is not. Why should I pay retail or even wholesale for a band that I then have to resale? Or even worse take 15% fee from a band that may only be making 20 - 25% after cost. Or just the opposite only get 15% when I might be able to make 30 - 40% by owning it. So I'm not slimy and I want to pay any musician that I hire a fare wage. But make no mistakes about this, if i decide to go forward wit it, it will be to maximize profits and deliver a quality product.

 

Also I'm investigating this to hopefully have an acceptable band ready to go for the holiday season. Lots of work that time of year, lots of exposure to jump start referrals for the band.

[cooterbrown]

I admit that may have come off a little slimy but the principle is not. Why should I pay retail or even wholesale for a band that I then have to resale? Or even worse take 15% fee from a band that may only be making 20 - 25% after cost. Or just the opposite only get 15% when I might be able to make 30 - 40% by owning it. So I'm not slimy and I want to pay any musician that I hire a fare wage. But make no mistakes about this, if i decide to go forward wit it, it will be to maximize profits and deliver a quality product. Also I'm investigating this to hopefully have an acceptable band ready to go for the holiday season. Lots of work that time of year, lots of exposure to jump start referrals for the band.

 

Good luck to you.

 

...and can you hook me up with a Disney Resort package on the cheap?

[wheresgrant3]

Just out of curiosity, what is your market? I think you are holding the standard up to a musician's standard. That's not the case for most people. No disrespect taken or meant, but what makes you think my performance was fly by the seat of your pants? How many weddings did you play last year? Sorry, but I can't help but take your statements as demeaning. 90% of my private gigs are referral and the bride's parents always cut the check. Unless, of course, it's the rehearsal dinner. Then, the groom's parents usually pay.:poke:

Don't mean to demean... the 'fly-by the seat' comment wasn't directed toward you....Sorry about the misunderstanding. And yes, I'm looking at the situation through musician's shades. My market is NY/NJ/CT and Long Island and a cheap wedding runs $15-20K. An average wedding runs $25K-40K. DJ's are dominant, I'd say 60-70% of the weddings booked use a DJ... but to get regular bookings as an event band (1-2 years in advance, every weekend 50-60 events a year) you have to be top notch. The bands picking up the scraps will have 2-3 calendar dates filled a month... and 1-2 those are for a family picnic or a friend of the band for a discounted price. While there is a market for side bands or for a wedding band of pickup players they are really hard to market against the bands that are out there doing it full time. For expensive weddings name and rep up here sells it all. Did you ever see 'The Wedding Singer'?. Yes, the fulltime bands take it pretty seriously.

I am certainly not one to talk, for I am probably one of the least talented musician in my band. I play in a successful club band, I hit my marks and I'm consistent. Average player at best. We play mostly niteclubs (50-60 a year)... and a fair amount of 'event' gigs (corporate gigs, bah mitzvah's, private parties another 30-40) but like Cooter, we have the name and rep to charge a premium locally. Last year we played two weddings and this year we're booked for six (one as far as North Carolina for $1100 per man). But mostly we are getting $500-600 per man for a wedding... (as a 6 piece) and for a wedding band that's about average. But we are not a wedding band... we are a rock band that plays weddings when contracted. Our 'private gigs' are 100% booked after seeing our niteclub act, and mostly it's the bride and groom... fans of the band; mid-30's, working professionals, hiring us as they are paying for their own wedding. We stipulate that we will not transform into an 'after hours, wedding band'. What you see in the club is largely what you get at your wedding. There is no Macarana... there is no Mustang Sally. There is Mary J Blidge and Montell Jordan and maybe Metallica (only by request). We're there to recreate the 'niteclub' show they experienced when they saw us onstage. We also provide DJ services and we contract an MC to coordinate with the banquet hall and make things smoothy-smooth. We also have a full time manager who runs lights and sound.

So I can't talk from experience as a pickup player. Like Coot... I've been in this band for nearly 7 years now... mostly the same lineup. Very popular locally, very competitive regionally. We all own the business, equipment, have a LLC. And we hire a manager who's never on stage to run it all. We only started doing weddings by request. The grand plan is to move this into a more professional offering down the road, 4-5 years, maybe with horns, multiple singers... but for now it's just filling the requests that we get the audience. We're all 30's- 40-s and we still have fun doing the niteclub thing. At least we're planning for our retirement.

[elbow]

You sound like a very sensible business man. I'll bring my band down there for $3500 and six hotel rooms for 3 nights. You can keep anything over that.

Are you gonna cover the travel?

[pitchgirl]

Regards right back. Good thread! Lots of good thoughts.

I admit that may have come off a little slimy but the principle is not. Why should I pay retail or even wholesale for a band that I then have to resale? Or even worse take 15% fee from a band that may only be making 20 - 25% after cost. Or just the opposite only get 15% when I might be able to make 30 - 40% by owning it. So I'm not slimy and I want to pay any musician that I hire a fare wage. But make no mistakes about this, if i decide to go forward wit it, it will be to maximize profits and deliver a quality product. Also I'm investigating this to hopefully have an acceptable band ready to go for the holiday season. Lots of work that time of year, lots of exposure to jump start referrals for the band.

Jerrard

Again, I'm sorry if I came off negatively, especially since this is the first interaction that I've had with you. I admit that I've been a little bitchy today- in real life as well as in this thread. Being business minded myself, I understand dreams and goals and hopefully yours will come true...

Stagebandit

If it weren't for your interjection I probably wouldn't have apologized, even though I did realize that I probably came across as a little too harsh. You and I have not interacted here, prior to this thread, I believe. As little as you may have read from me, I hope you do realize that I am truly not a mean spirited person.

[rhat]

[quote name=Stagebandit;


For the record' date=' who here capable of pulling off a standard cover gig would turn down $300 for a typical 3 hour wedding reception playing Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl?

I would guess there are less guys that could pull that off at the level it needs to be pulled of at than you think.

A band of that quality needs very good three part harmony vocals. Musicans who can play at a high level and sing difficult tight multiple part vocals dont grow on trees. Alot of bands can play a song ,, not many can do the harmony. It not only takes singing harmony , it takes members that can cover the low, mids and high parts. The only band i was ever in that could do that ,, had three chamber choir singer in it.

[strathound]

Given the scale of what Jerrard seems to be thinking along - I'll wonder aloud if perhaps we forum regulars are overstating the "labor challenges" he'll face. Perhaps we've become a little jaundiced from reading so many "my band was soooo close to getting it right ... if only ____ hadn't flaked ... now we gotta start over" posts. If "J" is paying - and handling the bulk of the legwork to boot - decent players WILL play.

 

 

I agree that it's possible. It's just that when someone comes in here and asks questions that demonstrate they are at square one, it's natural to be skeptical. I agree with Deeprig. If I had never started a band, I would never really understand the politics and headaches involved with keeping a group of people motivated and on track. Literally, it's herding frackin' cats. The OP needs to understand what he's up against. But I'll concede that if he goes into it well educated, with thick skin and an ability to smooth over issues, he can make it work if the money is right. But that's a lot of if's. But the Orlando market may be the place to make that work. I think it could work in Vegas too, if you get where I'm going with this. Create a show band. I'm sure there are guys in Vegas doing this today.

[strathound]

One more thing ... and Deeprig touched on this as well. You gotta realize that once you start recruiting people for something like this and they realize the money that's involved, the experienced players are going to want control. We as human beings like to have control over our environment ... our home, where we work, the day to day working conditions. Musicians are extremely independent minded. Each band is like a corporation. And I'm the frackin' CEO, President, Head-Mama-Jama, The King, The High Priest and ... in the words of Tommy Castro ... the Chairman of the Board (my baby's Board.) You gotta understand the mindset. The minute you get these personalities together, they will want to control where they play, when they play, etc etc etc. Being a DJ is easy in comparison. You just have one person you have to keep happy ... yourself.

Honestly, I think you'll want to recruit music majors. I know I'll take some heat from this. But you'll want to recruit people who read music, think of music like a job and just want a paycheck. That will give you guys that can learn the material quickly and have a working musician mentality (and not the star syndrome the rest of us have).

There. That's it. Good luck. All the best.

[Stagebandit]

I would guess there are less guys that could pull that off at the level it needs to be pulled of at than you think. A band of that quality needs very good three part harmony vocals. Musicans who can play at a high level and sing difficult tight multiple part vocals dont grow on trees. Alot of bands can play a song ,, not many can do the harmony. It not only takes singing harmony , it takes members that can cover the low, mids and high parts. The only band i was ever in that could do that ,, had three chamber choir singer in it.

I'm having a hard time finding any 3 party harmony on Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl, rhat. :poke:

I agree that 3 part harmony will separate a "good" band from a "great" band, but I think you're too detached from the scene to recognize that it's the exception, not the rule.

[strathound]

I'm having a hard time finding any 3 party harmony on Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl, rhat. :poke: I agree that 3 part harmony will separate a "good" band from a "great" band, but I think you're too detached from the scene to recognize that it's the exception, not the rule.

Motown my man. Motown.

[wades_keys]

Wheresgrant3 Thank you for the informative post on the subject instead of just negativity.

The negativity is coming from players who are in bands already - we're all telling you that we don't need some f**g svengali calling all the shots, just so he can offer occasional gigs out of what sounds like an average list of contacts.

Bloody hell man - go find me ONE seasoned musician who will agree to your pie-in-the sky dictatorship and then get back to me.

[wades_keys]

Honestly, I think you'll want to recruit music majors. I know I'll take some heat from this. But you'll want to recruit people who read music, think of music like a job and just want a paycheck. That will give you guys that can learn the material quickly and have a working musician mentality (and not the star syndrome the rest of us have).

That might just work - but keep in mind that even on Broadway, MD's are recruiting rockers to play on rock/pop productions like Billy Joel's "Movin Out".

 

Classical players don't have the right feel for rock, unless you get lucky and find the rare one that can do that well too.

 

But now you're dealing once more with specialists, and all the readers are gonna be union guys to boot.

 

Those guys are gonna demand more money than a dj with a few contacts can ever afford to pay, and if you start shoving weight around or pulling too much control, off the set they go, and they'll take their friends too.

 

So this whole idea is an epic fail.

[Stagebandit]

You gotta realize that once you start recruiting people for something like this and they realize the money that's involved, the experienced players are going to want control. You gotta understand the mindset. The minute you get these personalities together, they will want to control where they play, when they play, etc etc etc.

 

 

I've gotta respectfully disagree with you on these statements. If you hire a guitar slinger for a gig and he accepts, he's lost all control over everything you've mentioned. He can refuse to accept the gig based on the details, but he can't control anything if he accepts the gig. If he declines the gig, next.

 

In my experience, there are fewer musicians who are leaders than followers. Most of the time, the best musicians can't even show up on time, let alone try to control the situation. That's why guys like you and me can lead a band. We have organizational and management skills that are lost on most musicians.

[wades_keys]

I'm having a hard time finding any 3 party harmony on Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl, rhat. :poke:

Not just Motown....

Some songs my variety band does with 3 part harmony:

"Till I fall Away" (Gin Blossoms)
"Already Gone" (Eagles)
"All For You" (Sister Hazel)
"3 am" (Maroon 5)

These songs range from the 70's through the 90's, and all benefit from 3 part harmonies.

[Stagebandit]

That might just work - but keep in mind that even on Broadway, MD's are recruiting rockers to play on rock/pop productions like Billy Joel's "Movin Out". Classical players don't have the right feel for rock, unless you get lucky and find the rare one that can do that well too. But now you're dealing once more with specialists, and all the readers are gonna be union guys to boot. Those guys are gonna demand more money than a dj with a few contacts can ever afford to pay, and if you start shoving weight around or pulling too much control, off the set they go, and they'll take their friends too. So this whole idea is an epic fail.

I thought you promised not to use the "epic fail" comment after the last fiasco.

In all seriousness, I've done exactly what he's talking about, with the exception that I fronted the band on about 30% of the tunes. It CAN be done.

Some of you guys are acting like he's heading for Broadway or Motown. He's talking about a "Function Band", for crying out loud.

[vanlatte]

Thank you for the informative post on the subject instead of just negativity. .

 

FFS: Just take a long walk off a short pier, will ya.

 

I just can't be bothered anymore with these posts that ask for opinions, and when the OP doesn't hear what they want to hear it's written off as "negative".

 

 

( why don't we have that Jerk Off smiley anymore?? )

[Stagebandit]

Not just Motown.... Some songs my variety band does with 3 part harmony: "Till I fall Away" (Gin Blossoms) "Already Gone" (Eagles) "All For You" (Sister Hazel) "3 am" (Maroon 5) These songs range from the 70's through the 90's, and all benefit from 3 part harmonies.

Post 'em. Just kidding.

I only mentioned Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl. This has nothing to do with harmony, just his ability to hire good musicians for high paying gigs. Hell, he could hire back-up singers, too, if the money is right.

[Stagebandit]

FFS: Just take a long walk off a short pier, will ya. I just can't be bothered anymore with these posts that ask for opinions, and when the OP doesn't hear what they want to hear it's written off as "negative". ( why don't we have that Jerk Off smiley anymore?? )

In all fairness, he asked three things.

1. How many players would be required.
2. Would he have to pay royalties for the music.
3. How long, if ever, it would take to get tight.

Every comment about "You can't do it" or "you should do something else" IS negative.

[elbow]

I've gotta respectfully disagree with you on these statements. If you hire a guitar slinger for a gig and he accepts, he's lost all control over everything you've mentioned. He can refuse to accept the gig based on the details, but he can't control anything if he accepts the gig. If he declines the gig, next. In my experience, there are fewer musicians who are leaders than followers. Most of the time, the best musicians can't even show up on time, let alone try to control the situation. That's why guys like you and me can lead a band. We have organizational and management skills that are lost on most musicians.

+1

Some of the best players I know like to follow. They've done plenty of leading in their music careers and now they just want to show up right before the gig, plug in, play, and get their pay.


It's starting to sound good to me too