Corporate Party Band

[Stagebandit]

The negativity is coming from players who are in bands already - we're all telling you that we don't need some f**g svengali calling all the shots, just so he can offer occasional gigs out of what sounds like an average list of contacts. Bloody hell man - go find me ONE seasoned musician who will agree to your pie-in-the sky dictatorship and then get back to me.

Every band needs a leader who calls the shots and gets gigs. If I recall correctly, you've just found this out the hard way, right?

Every time you accept a gig you've become that ONE seasoned musician.

[wades_keys]

I thought you promised not to use the "epic fail" comment after the last fiasco. In all seriousness, I've done exactly what he's talking about, with the exception that I fronted the band on about 30% of the tunes. It CAN be done.

Well gee, you're a musician right?

This guys a freaking dj with a svengali complex - you wanna work for THAT?

[wades_keys]

Every band needs a leader who calls the shots and gets gigs. If I recall correctly, you've just found this out the hard way, right? Every time you accept a gig you've become that ONE seasoned musician.

I think you missed the part where he said he's not a musician, and can't play or sing.

[Stagebandit]

+1 Some of the best players I know like to follow. They've done plenty of leading in their music careers and now they just want to show up right before the gig, plug in, play, and get their pay. It's starting to sound good to me too

No doubt. I can't understand why these guys are closing their minds to the obvious reality. I think it's cause the OP is a DJ.

[rhat]

I'm having a hard time finding any 3 party harmony on Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl, rhat. :poke: I agree that 3 part harmony will separate a "good" band from a "great" band, but I think you're too detached from the scene to recognize that it's the exception, not the rule.

Its pretty hard to really be a wedding band, unless you can cover 60s music. Typically thats the demographics that is paying the bill. Mustang sally and brown eyed girl are no brainer songs to a real wedding capable band. You better be able to do eagles, association, grass roots, and soul and motown, gee bees and disco and a ton of other fairly complex music thats rhythm and vocal driven. A good wedding band can cover over 50 years of rock and roll and be able to thow in a polka for grandma. I dont know if I am detached from the scene or not. I know i am in the scene enough to have written the checks for a wedding. I also know what a really good variety band is all about.

[wades_keys]

Every comment about "You can't do it" or "you should do something else" IS negative.

Yup - it's me saying that as a musician, I would never consider such, and that I don't know of anyone else that would....

 

If that doesn't count for anything, then why the f**k would you ask on a forum called "Backstage with the Band"?

 

Who'd you think you'd find here, except for guys that are playing in bands?

 

Hell, I'm in a variety band, with a guy who most definitely calls the shots, but he is a contributing member of the band.

 

Just consider this a poll - I'm saying "no" to this offer, so yeah, I guess that's negativity.

 

To be more clear on this subject: I'm in 2 bands right now. In the last month, I've auditoned for 2 other bands, and got offered and immediate position in both. Blind auditions, with no advance warning on the songs, and I played my way through everything these cats had.

 

I'm a solid player, especially around these parts, and I have the skills, gear and time to be in any band I choose.

 

My classic rock band (part time) has a booking agent who takes 15% off the top and lands us good steady gigs. My variety band has a strong leader with contacts, desire, and experience that will land us gigs. This offer does not appeal to me at all, as I already have everything I need and have turned down offers to play with groups....

 

Stagebandit, our variety band should have a pro-level demo completed sometime within the next month - you're free to listen to it and offer any critique you may have - I'll post the link...

[Stagebandit]

Yup - it's me saying that as a musician, I would never consider such, and that I don't know of anyone else that would.... If that doesn't count for anything, then why the f**k would you ask on a forum called "Backstage with the Band"? Who'd you think you'd find here, except for guys that are playing in bands? Hell, I'm in a variety band, with a guy who most definitely calls the shots, but he is a contributing member of the band . Just consider this a poll - I'm saying "no" to this offer, so yeah, I guess that's negativity.

 

But Wades, the OP never asked if you would take the gig. He asked for specific answers to specific questions about how it works.

 

No offense, man, but telling him that you wouldn't take that gig is off topic and, quite frankly, arrogant. Telling him that no one would take that gig is just untrue.

 

Plenty of bands have contributing members who don't play or sing. Someone, who I can't recall right now, mentioned in this thread that they have a manager who runs sound and lights. What's the difference between that and this?

[wades_keys]

Plenty of bands have contributing members who don't play or sing. Someone, who I can't recall right now, mentioned in this thread that they have a manager who runs sound and lights. What's the difference between that and this?

Plenty of difference.

 

You go on and work for him, and report back how it went - I'm genuinely curious....

 

He'd better be some kind of Herbie Herbert or something, which i doubt....Real managers attach themselves to good bands, they don't try to build one from scratch based around what sounds like mediocre contacts - the same contacts that any qualified band would already have.

[strathound]

I've gotta respectfully disagree with you on these statements. If you hire a guitar slinger for a gig and he accepts, he's lost all control over everything you've mentioned. He can refuse to accept the gig based on the details, but he can't control anything if he accepts the gig. If he declines the gig, next. In my experience, there are fewer musicians who are leaders than followers. Most of the time, the best musicians can't even show up on time, let alone try to control the situation. That's why guys like you and me can lead a band. We have organizational and management skills that are lost on most musicians.

And I respectfully disagree with your disagreement.

I know where you are coming from. I hire my lead guitar player right now for every show so I can focus on singing and playing rhythm. So I've worked with lots of guys and I know the mentality. Heck, I count on it. But these guys like to work this way. And for that reason, they are NOT a good choice for building a high end band like this. While they may not want to lead, they have plenty of side gigs and will bail the second it suits them. Sure, anyone might do this. But I think the OP is still better off getting guys that read music and want steady, reliable work like I suggested earlier. That's not to say these hired guns aren't good. They're fantastic. But they are hired guns. They like the flexibility. And typically, frankly, they are used to winging it. I don't get the impression from the OP that he wants a jam band.

But yeah, you're right. Putting together a group of guys to limp through Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl ought to be simple enough. But it wouldn't cut it for the kinds of clients he's wanting to attract.

JMHO,

[wades_keys]

But Wades, the OP never asked if you would take the gig. He asked for specific answers to specific questions about how it works.

We're telling him it doesn't work - he's putting the cart before the horse.

Seems to me we have a majority of band players saying "pound sand" - no amount of coercion from you or anyone is going to change that simple fact.

[Stagebandit]

We're telling him it doesn't work - he's putting the cart before the horse. Seems to me we have a majority of band players saying "pound sand" - no amount of coercion from you or anyone is going to change that simple fact.

 

And I'm telling you it does work. I know from experience. No coercion necessary. Besides, how did I try to force or intimidate anyone or anything?

 

 

What does "pound sand" mean?

[strathound]

Just consider this a poll - I'm saying "no" to this offer, so yeah, I guess that's negativity.

I'm with ya. I'd be very suspicious of a deal like this. But, I think there are musicians out there that would sign up for a deal like this if the conditions were right.

[wheresgrant3]

But Wades, the OP never asked if you would take the gig. He asked for specific answers to specific questions about how it works. No offense, man, but telling him that you wouldn't take that gig is off topic and, quite frankly, arrogant. Telling him that no one would take that gig is just untrue. Plenty of bands have contributing members who don't play or sing. Someone, who I can't recall right now, mentioned in this thread that they have a manager who runs sound and lights. What's the difference between that and this?

I mentioned that... and yes, he is a musician. He played in the very same circles we've played in for years and after a shoulder injury took up our offer to manage our affairs and not play on stage.

The DJ I hired for my wedding is also a singer and played in a few local cover bands and done some musical theater. Even if he were to approach me about such a project I'd might consider, but only because of his background in music... not his experience in entertainment.

As I said before... the OP could collectively put together a group of musicians from scratch and form an entertainment company of sorts. He'd just have to be prepared to invest some startup capital $$$ and make sure that all expenses were covered and all of the musicians were paid before he could recoup any costs. As an 'owner' he would assume 100% of the risk and financing. With plenty of great bands already doing that I still see many challenges getting it off the ground... I certainly wouldn't see it possible in my market. Not from scratch at least.

[Stagebandit]

But yeah, you're right. Putting together a group of guys to limp through Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl ought to be simple enough. But it wouldn't cut it for the kinds of clients he's wanting to attract. JMHO,

How the hell do you "limp through" Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl? That's ridiculous.

It sounds like we must have a surplus of competent musicians in MS compared to the rest of the country. It would be no problem for me to find a group of musicians who could pull this off with their eyes closed, and that's no reflection on my ability as a musician.

[wades_keys]

I'm with ya. I'd be very suspicious of a deal like this. But, I think there are musicians out there that would sign up for a deal like this if the conditions were right.

I would, but he made no mention of any considerations toward these musicians, though he had every opportunity to do so.

Show me the gigs, the money, and the hassle free, and i'm there all day. That's the hired gun mentality - trust me, I've gone on several auditions for fools that talk the talk - the band is "ready" and all that bs, and then you show up and it's a bunch of hacks fumbling through less than 2 sets of giggable material.

If you wanna attract a hired gun, you better show the money and the gigs, up front and guaranteed in writing.

[Stagebandit]

I mentioned that... and yes, he is a musician. He played in the very same circles we've played in for years and after a shoulder injury took up our offer to manage our affairs and not play on stage. The DJ I hired for my wedding is also a singer and played in a few local cover bands and done some musical theater. Even if he were to approach me about such a project I'd might consider, but only because of his background in music... not his experience in entertainment. As I said before... the OP could collectively put together a group of musicians from scratch and form an entertainment company of sorts. He'd just have to be prepared to invest some startup capital $$$ and make sure that all expenses were covered and all of the musicians were paid before he could recoup any costs. As an 'owner' he would assume 100% of the risk and financing. With plenty of great bands already doing that I still see many challenges getting it off the ground... I certainly wouldn't see it possible in my market. Not from scratch at least.

I thought it was you, but I didn't have time to look it up and didn't want to misquote.

The guy has all of the credentials necessary, with the exception of being a player himself. It won't be easy, but it is do-able.

[Stagebandit]

I would, but he made no mention of any considerations toward these musicians, though he had every opportunity to do so. Show me the gigs, the money, and the hassle free, and i'm there all day. That's the hired gun mentality - trust me, I've gone on several auditions for fools that talk the talk - the band is "ready" and all that bs, and then you show up and it's a bunch of hacks fumbling through less than 2 sets of giggable material. If you wanna attract a hired gun, you better show the money and the gigs, up front and guaranteed in writing.

Exactly! That's all I'm saying. Don't be so quick to assume that the guy is a snake just because he's a DJ.

If the money is right and the perks are there, it's a no brainer.

[GCDEF]

Well the contacts I have now are decent with many many more to come as well as a very substantial PA. Why would you turn down a situation where all you have to do is show up to rehearsals and gigs and play and you get paid.

 

 

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but if I had a dollar for everybody that told me they had lots of contacts and would get me lots of gigs, I'd have retired a long time ago. That may be true, but nobody will believe you. Your best bet is to find an established band and get into a relationship with them where you book the gigs and take a fee. I really doubt you want the headaches of trying to manage a band anyway. It's not easy.

[strathound]

How the hell do you "limp through" Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl? That's ridiculous. It sounds like we must have a surplus of competent musicians in MS compared to the rest of the country. It would be no problem for me to find a group of musicians who could pull this off with their eyes closed, and that's no reflection on my ability as a musician.

LOL. Well there are two ways to explain your surprise at this statement. The first you've already mentioned. Maybe the musicians in your area are so far superior to the musicians in other music hotbeds (Austin, LA, NY, Nashville) that everyone nails these two songs. The other possibility is that your standards in MS are far lower than the rest of the music community. I wouldn't dare suggest which might be closer to the truth. Since I don't have a rendition of Mustang Sally or Brown Eyed girl in my catalog from a MS band, I'll have to just use my imagination.

Mustang Sally, you'd better SLOW your Mustang down.

[wheresgrant3]

I thought it was you, but I didn't have time to look it up and didn't want to misquote. The guy has all of the credentials necessary, with the exception of being a player himself. It won't be easy, but it is do-able.

I applaud you on your persistance (or maybe that insistance) I agree... on the condition he were to lay out the capital$ to get it off the ground. He would have approach this as a financier... not as a booking agent to be able to manage this project as a professional working band. the type he's talking about... corporate events, weddings, etc. Again... financing is the main factor here. It's just as important as the booking contacts. You can't 'own' a business without any investment. If he were to to front the financing to get this project off the ground, then he could hire the consisent talent needed to deliver the final product. A packaged band. That's the only way I'd see him able to hire musicians capable of playing on that level.

Maybe things are different in MS... but in the Northeast, in and around NYC, that final product had better be worth what they are charging. It's very competitive. Over the years I've seen some pretty talented musicians struggle in some pretty half-assed gigging projects just to keep working. Of course he'd find plenty of musicians able to audition... keeping them (or retaining them) is another factor altogether.

[wades_keys]

Exactly! That's all I'm saying. Don't be so quick to assume that the guy is a snake just because he's a DJ. If the money is right and the perks are there, it's a no brainer.

The reason I "conclude" snake, is that he was not willing to even pitch his idea to those of us who showed doubt.

 

He's gonna let a lot of good players walk down the road, with that approach.

 

Like I said - look at me - I'm a good player, not great, but good and solid and dependable, and I've got my choice of band gigs around here for the most part.

 

It's also safe to conclude that a player on my level or beyond is required to play on this level - volume, tone and dynamics are critical on these gigs, and you're NOT gonna get that with your average rocker with only "big dumb rock" experience under the belt.

 

It's safe to "assume" that others in my position and beyond have a similar "freedom of choice" about who they play with, and under what conditions...

 

That's been my experience too with other players I've known in and around the local scene here.

[GCDEF]

The reason I "conclude" snake, is that he was not willing to even pitch his idea to those of us who showed doubt. He's gonna let a lot of good players walk down the road, with that approach. Like I said - look at me - I'm a good player, not great, but good and solid and dependable, and I've got my choice of band gigs around here for the most part. It's also safe to conclude that a player on my level or beyond is required to play on this level - volume, tone and dynamics are critical on these gigs, and you're NOT gonna get that with your average rocker with only "big dumb rock" experience under the belt. It's safe to "assume" that others in my position and beyond have a similar "freedom of choice" about who they play with, and under what conditions... That's been my experience too with other players I've known in and around the local scene here.

That's pretty much it. The players good enough to do it are already going to be in established bands gigging as much as they want already. He's going to have to have something really spectacular to lure them away. Unless he could show me a list of 20 already booked guaranteed gigs, I wouldn't even consider it, and they'd have to be spectacular gigs.

[Stagebandit]

LOL. Well there are two ways to explain your surprise at this statement. The first you've already mentioned. Maybe the musicians in your area are so far superior to the musicians in other music hotbeds (Austin, LA, NY, Nashville) that everyone nails these two songs. The other possibility is that your standards in MS are far lower than the rest of the music community. I wouldn't dare suggest which might be closer to the truth. Since I don't have a rendition of Mustang Sally or Brown Eyed girl in my catalog from a MS band, I'll have to just use my imagination. Mustang Sally, you'd better SLOW your Mustang down.

I'm sure you didn't mean to insult my home state, but I can't help but read that into your statements.

Is $2500 in Mississippi any different than $2500 where you live?

Btw, Wilson Pickett is from Alabama, if that helps your imagination.:poke:

I'm beginning to think that the nay sayers are suffering from a case of "sour grapes".

[wheresgrant3]

Obviously we could debate all day whether a non-musician could create and manage a successful band from scratch with no other contribution other than his guidence and business experience. I'm split whether it could be done... and even if it could I have doubts that he'd be able to charge enough to pay everybody and walk away with 30-50% or recup his initial investment.

Without investing any money.... a scene from a particular movie comes to mind.

Remember that classic scene from the movie Fargo where William Macy brings his Father-In-Law and his business partner a real estate investment and expects to score 50% on the proceeds. His father-in law chokes, and tells him they'll give him 10% as a finders fee... William Macy exclaims "But I brought you the deal"... and the father replies "Yeah, but we're putting up the money!". The musicians are putting up the talent to get the job done... he'd have to provide the capital to get it started and make it managable.

[wades_keys]

I'm beginning to think that the nay sayers are suffering from a case of "sour grapes".

 

Show me the money, and the grapes get mighty sweet, mighty fast.

 

I ain't sure how people are in your neck of the woods, but bull{censored} in Ky. is about the same as bull{censored} in MS, last time I checked.