How do you rise above it and be professional when..

[J.Paul]

....you can't see or hear what's going on?

 

I'm not hired to just stand there and backup "the little singer". I'm hired to play and sing and to bring it like a rockstar...but when the lights are so bright (less than 6' from the truss tonight) that you can't see your fretboard it tends to hinder the visuals.....we never replaced our drum shield when everything burned, so the drums (especially snare) are all I hear. I've been wearing earplugs all summer (until I can get my EIM) so I can hear my pitch but then my guitar has to be loud as F*** through the monitors for me to hear guitar over the drums w/ earplugs. Tonight the venue can't bear the volume to be fair to our soundman, so I have to come down, which mean I have to loose my earplugs to hear my guitar which means I can't hear my pitch. Normally the MD would advise the drummer to play for the room or play for the gig, but the MD IS the drummer and he plays like Bonham.

 

Should I just wear sunglasses, stand there, play the gig and collect the check?

WTF?

Most people would say to smile, put on a great show, be professional and rise above it; but I say just showing up and getting through IS being professional.

 

anyone?

[12Pack]

Problem 1.

 

Sounds to me like your drummer is a hitter - causing everyone else to compete and turning up to overcompensate for the drums. Are the drums mic'ed?

 

Problem 2.

Sunglasses may or may not work - I have a hat with a brim on it just in case - I hate wearing sunglasses when gigging - but that is a personal preference.

[J.Paul]

 

Problem 1. Sounds to me like your drummer is a hitter - causing everyone else to compete and turning up to overcompensate for the drums. Are the drums mic'ed?

 

 

No,I am the only one competing, everyone is on IEM and has a perfect mix every night.

Yes, everything is miked, we travel w/ full production.

[cooterbrown]

 

....you can't see or hear what's going on? Should I just wear sunglasses, stand there, play the gig and collect the check?

 

 

You know what? That would seem like the obvious thing to do.

God knows I would probably do it.

 

But I've seen a few performance by some big names where stuff has been all wrong and instead of turning the anger inward, they release as really over-the-top, exaggerated playing and performing.

 

I've seen Elton John do it at an outdoor festival in Germany...he was freaking livid about the drums being too loud in the monitor - he was screaming at the techs, and it was a phenomenal performance.

 

I saw Alex Lifeson of Rush do it, his wireless kept crapping out...gave his guitar tech an earful, then in hast was handed the wrong guitar. Alex was as mad onstage as I've ever seen him, but once he was back on, it was the best version of the next couple of Rush songs I ever heard.

 

I've also seen Brian Johnson of AC/DC do it...he got so mad at the monitor tech, he put his boot through his wedge, a tech instantly came out with a speaker and a cordless screwdriver and had it replaced in under a minute.

Brian was stalking the stage like he was ready to fight, and the rest of the show was on fire.

 

So yeah...just accept and laugh about the fact that everything is {censored}...then go out there and upstage everybody else...become larger than life, put on a ridiculous Cheshire Cat smile, exhort the audience with Metal God poses, and just be the one the audience talks about the next day.

[Kramerguy]

I don't know what to tell you, sounds like the soundman isn't doing his job? I know you said the mix was good, but if you are at max and can't hear yourself, there's a problem. Lighting is extremely hot and shouldn't be that close. Shades will only solve half that problem. Sounds like you need to consult a professional and maybe try to figure out what's going wrong.

 

All gigs have their issues, but if it's a consistent problem, well then, it's a consistent problem lol, it needs to be addressed and resolved.

[deepblue]

Sounds like the drummer is an attention whore and Tito needs a tissue.....

[chevybusa]

Depends on how into the whole thing you are, but sounds like you hit the nail on the head when you said play the gig and collect the paycheck.

[BlueStrat]

If the lights are that close and the stage volume is that loud, it sounds like the venue is too small for what you're trying to do in it.

 

Trim down your show or find bigger venues. It's always maddening trying to force 10 pounds of guano into a 5 pound bag.

 

And tell your drummer to lighten up. He may think he sounds wimpy playing lighter but believe me, 99% of the people in then crowd won't notice or care.

[reaganomic6]

If the drummer is a hard hitter and won't change his style, as soon as you can afford it, pony up the $$$ for in ears. It's worth every penny.

[SunRaFan]

It sounds like you really need to get IEMs pronto if you are the only one having trouble hearing on stage and FOH isn't complaining about the drums being to loud to mix over.

[J.Paul]

That was strange.

It was quite an exercise to get through that last night.

I'm a good enough player to get through it w/out crashing but there wasn't much finesse,lol......we'll try for round 2 tonight.

 

Good replies, everyone....

 

The sunglasses did help.

 

Yes the venue is too small for what we're doing, there is nowhere else to put the lights other than where we they are tonight.Thankfully it's not a consistent problem, most of what we've done this summer has been outdoors.

 

The drummer isn't the problem and I wouldn't ask him to change his tone or approach anymore than he would ask me.

 

LOL.Good stuff Cooterbrown.I've done that before and it works....though not last night.

 

I'm still replacing guitars/amp/rack/pedalboard from a fire we had but the EIM are coming in October whew...just gotta get through next weekend's club dates.Now that I've reflected, the real issue was bailing from soundcheck after only 2 songs. The singer had merch/product to pickup before the vendor closed and we had to go...Soundcheck is for problem solving, we blew through 2 songs and instead of addressing my issues (or anyone else's) we had to get to the merch vendor.So they got their T-shirts but they also got "boring guitar player dude" too :poke:

[wagdog]

Earplugs and sunglasses are your friend!

[tacdryver]

I have yet to see a trainwreck on stage that 'just happened' it was somebody's fault...the curious thing is that the term 'sabateurs' have come up from time to time...

[Roy Brooks]

The drummer is too loud.

[SBF3000]

 

It sounds like you really need to get IEMs pronto if you are the only one having trouble hearing on stage and FOH isn't complaining about the drums being to loud to mix over.

 

 

agree. until then, I would show up with the shades and kick ass.

[tlbonehead]

That was strange. It was quite an exercise to get through that last night. I'm a good enough player to get through it w/out crashing but there wasn't much finesse,lol......we'll try for round 2 tonight. Good replies, everyone.... The sunglasses did help. Yes the venue is too small for what we're doing, there is nowhere else to put the lights other than where we they are tonight.Thankfully it's not a consistent problem, most of what we've done this summer has been outdoors. The drummer isn't the problem and I wouldn't ask him to change his tone or approach anymore than he would ask me. LOL.Good stuff Cooterbrown.I've done that before and it works....though not last night. I'm still replacing guitars/amp/rack/pedalboard from a fire we had but the EIM are coming in October whew...just gotta get through next weekend's club dates.Now that I've reflected, the real issue was bailing from soundcheck after only 2 songs. The singer had merch/product to pickup before the vendor closed and we had to go...Soundcheck is for problem solving, we blew through 2 songs and instead of addressing my issues (or anyone else's) we had to get to the merch vendor.So they got their T-shirts but they also got "boring guitar player dude" too :poke:

Can you situate yourself and your amp farther from the drums to isolate yourself a little better?

[J.Paul]

 

Can you situate yourself and your amp farther from the drums to isolate yourself a little better?

 

 

Yeah.

That's one of the things I ended up doing.

 

Tonight's a festival w/ Ronnie Milsap and Neal McCoy, so that's not a problem,

but next Fri/Sat is a smaller stage and room.LOL. There will be no room for anything.

[Austincowbell]

I'm with the amp placement camp. Adjust your amp by either tilting it up at the back of your head or so it hits your ear at an angle. You should be able to get enough stage volume from it to make the show work. And I've had a few shows where the entire monitor system just died so I feel your pain.

[Kramerguy]

I have yet to see a trainwreck on stage that 'just happened' it was somebody's fault...the curious thing is that the term 'sabateurs' have come up from time to time...

 

Funny thing, I was sabotaged by my former bass player more than once onstage. He played a bass with active pickups and when it was time for a guitar solo, he would play really hard and sometimes even hit wrong notes, timing, just to try to {censored} me up and drown me out. He usually succeeded in drowning me out. Then he'd claim everything sounded fine, he didn't hear any issues... Which is why he's the former bassist.

[wades_keys]

 

I have yet to see a trainwreck on stage that 'just happened' it was somebody's fault...the curious thing is that the term 'sabateurs' have come up from time to time...

 

Interesting perspective - so what you're saying is find who is to blame for the trainwreck and unload on that person?

 

Sounds reasonable....BUT....why weren't you listening? Why couldn't YOU react to the changing circumstances?

 

Are you lost when someone deviates from the script and plays a bar long or short, or adds a fill, or what about if the vocalist wants to repeat a verse - is that his "FAULT" or is that just him trying to put on a dynamic show?

 

We should as musicians work on our listening and disaster recovery skills - not all songs are going to follow the script at all times - the trick is in listening and modifying your playing on the fly.

[tacdryver]

In a perfect world everyone in the band would be on the same team to produce a product that works..

 

I am still surprised to find some folks do any number of things to derail a nice guitar solo or good vocals...needless to say, I don't play with those folks...

[SpaceNorman]

 

Interesting perspective - so what you're saying is find who is to blame for the trainwreck and unload on that person? Sounds reasonable....BUT....why weren't you listening? Why couldn't YOU react to the changing circumstances? Are you lost when someone deviates from the script and plays a bar long or short, or adds a fill, or what about if the vocalist wants to repeat a verse - is that his "FAULT" or is that just him trying to put on a dynamic show? We should as musicians work on our listening and disaster recovery skills - not all songs are going to follow the script at all times - the trick is in listening and modifying your playing on the fly.

 

 

Good post Wade! If TacDryver means that you can almost always figure out where it is that the wheels start to leave the track - I sorta see what he means. That's not necessarily a bad thing ... since it seems like most of the time it's a chain of events involving multiple players. (i.e., player "A" serves up an ambiguous cue - while tossing the rest of the rhythm section into brief confusion.) A little focus at what and how it went south ain't bad.

 

If however, you're spending time figuring out who bonked as a function of blame - it's wasted effort.

 

Your advise about learning to listen and develop good "disaster recovery" skills is dead nutz on!

[bassred]

My 2 cents are this, get your IEM's back (I understand you are waiting for the gear) so until they come, think about where your guitar is in the mix, not where you hear it, where the crowd hears it, if you are cranking it up, it may be throwing off the balance in the mix, put in some ear plugs (but not the cheapo foam ones) and do your best until your gear is all back in place.. As for the lights, rock the shades!! I had my eye doctor tell me that stage lights were blowing my low-light vision, and stated that if I wore sunglasses on stage it would help, so I have a built-in excuse, plus nothing says Rock N ROll like shades!!!

[Elliott316]

I personally disagree with the people who say 'the drummer is playing too loud'. If you are playing through a half way descent Front of House, the harder the drummer hits, the better the mix sounds because the drums will hit and stay above the compressor level harder and longer, which is key to having HUGE drums, both live and in the studio. It actually cleans up a mix, too, because the FOH engineer can turn down the gain on the board. As far as being able to hear on stage, a good monitor world engineer should be able to effectively cut frequency notches in your monitor for your vox to cut through.

 

That being said, if you are playing a more confined area with subpar FOH/monitors, you've got to be able to play off instinct. You just know when you are on and when you aren't.

 

Just my humble opinion!

[J.Paul]

I think the issue most of these replies are responding to is that the drums are not even in the mix enough to control anything from FOH therefore rendering the soundman having to either goose the the DBs to over 102 (or more) to bring everything else up to the drums or just sound like a"bar band"........my guitar in the monitors from last weekend's post wasn't helping matters either....just a friggin small room.

 

 

I personally disagree with the people who say 'the drummer is playing too loud'. If you are playing through a half way descent Front of House, the harder the drummer hits, the better the mix sounds because the drums will hit and stay above the compressor level harder and longer, which is key to having HUGE drums, both live and in the studio. It actually cleans up a mix, too, because the FOH engineer can turn down the gain on the board. As far as being able to hear on stage, a good monitor world engineer should be able to effectively cut frequency notches in your monitor for your vox to cut through. That being said, if you are playing a more confined area with subpar FOH/monitors, you've got to be able to play off instinct. You just know when you are on and when you aren't. Just my humble opinion!