And yet another "What would you do?"

[Khatru]

This has played out over the last month in my project. In hindsight, it appears that many, many, many mistakes were made in handling this situation. I'm not proud to having participated in any of this, but it is what it is.

 

I'm open to any advice and comments you might have and would appreciate your outside perspectives on this series of unfortunate events. What would you have done, and when?

 

I'm either A, B, or C. The names have been changed to protect the innocent, as well as the guilty.

 

Discuss.

 

________

 

 

The Cast:

 

Two year old all-originals band with female (if it matters) singer/songwriter, plus bandmembers we'll call A, B, C, D, & E (E is the singer). Additional characters/victims as needed.

 

________

 

Scene One:

 

Singer E decides to spend more time with family and resigns from the band. A, B, C, & D are all bummed out because we like each other and the band is beginning to take off.

 

Band runs ads and sends e-mails to known area singers. Singer 1 replies to ad and band meets with her to discuss. She is new in town and seems very nice, but has no experience. Band gives her CDs and decides to schedule audition.

 

Singer 2 (who has some buzz going on locally) replies to e-mails and band offers to schedule meeting with her. No reply to that invite.

 

Singer 1 auditions and it goes poorly. Bandmember D states he will quit unless the band gets back to gigging in reasonably short order, and no way can Singer 1 do it. Bandmember C thinks Singer 1 can do it, and just needs some help to get there. A & B think she is over her head.

 

Singer 1 is very likable, so it is decided to give her another chance, as she is the only game in town at this point and pressure from D is making everyone aware that he will bail if we don't get it together soon.

 

Bandmembers A & B meet with Singer 1 for coaching on the songs. She shows minimal improvement. Audition Singer 1 second time, she does considerably better, but not gig-ready or even close.

 

No other replies to ads, etc. so band takes vote on giving her a shot. A, B, & C vote yes, let's give her a shot, D reluctantly goes along with majority, but still does not think she can do it. Singer 1 is invited to join band. Big band party. Yea.

 

Very next day Singer 2 contacts band and wants to audition. Forgot to reply to invite, but is quite interested. She is informed that Singer 1 was invited into the band yesterday, sorry, crap. She says thanks anyway.

 

Band is now bummed again because they thought Singer 2 would have been quite good, based upon some recordings.

 

A & B meet with Singer 1 for coaching three more times and minimal improvement is shown. Band schedules first full rehearsal with Singer 1. It goes worse than first audition.

 

D leaves town for two weeks. A, B, & C talk and are scared {censored}less about the prospect of taking the stage with Singer 1 after the rehearsal due to Singer 1's vocal non-standard "renditions" of the music. It appears that Singer 1 forgot everything from work sessions and is leaving considerable doubt that she is a singer at all, but in all fairness, she had just received some bad personal news and it might have thrown her off at rehearsal.

 

B & D are convinced that she does not just need help on songs, she needs singing lessons, no matter how nice she is.

 

Singer 1 goes out of town for a week. Bandmembers A & B see project crumbling before their eyes, so secretly ask Singer 2 to meet. She agrees and turns out she is a multi-instrumentalist and songwriter as well. They give her some CDs. Bandmembers A & B do not inform C & D about meeting Singer 2 because C & D would consider it a very, very, very bad thing to do, roughly equated with marital infidelity by C & D.

 

Singer 2 really digs band's material and wants to get together with A & B. A & B agree and Singer 2 totally kills on everything she sings. Exhibits no problems and adds very tasteful things to songs that improve them. A & B contemplate suicide.

 

D gets back to town. A & B come clean with C & D about meeting Singer 2. C & D are highly pissed at A & B, but want to meet Singer 2 and run through some songs, anyway. That happens and A, B, C, & D are also very impressed with Singer 2.

 

You might think you know where things are going at this point, but no.

 

A, B, C, & D are feeling very guility about their "infidelity" and commence tearing into each other about inviting Singer 1 into the band too early, and secretly meeting with Singer 2, and going behind each other's backs and threatening to quit, etc. A, B, C, & D decide original Singer E is to blame for quitting, but E is having none of it and this does little good.

 

Singer E offers advice that the band should immediately communicate with Singer 1 that she is in over her head and it's not working out, and then hiring Singer 2. A & B think that's best course and don't want to risk losing Singer 2.

 

C thinks the band should work with Singer 1 for a couple of months to see if she can get up to speed, since she was invited into the band and all. D agrees with C, but reminds everyone the clock's ticking (on his quitting thing) and even though he personally does not think she can do it, we should continue with her due to commitment. A, B, C get upset at D over the threatened quitting thing.

 

A, B, C, & D's wives weigh in. Two wives agree with Singer E, that it's time to cut the cord with Singer 1 and go with 2. 1 wife is undecided, 1 wife thinks A, B, C, & D are "{censored}ers".

 

It is decided that there will be two more rehearsals with Singer 1 to try to assess if she will be able to do it. Meanwhile, A & B are worried that Singer 2 will bail due to the indecision, and would not blame her if she did.

 

Meanwhile, Singer 1 still has no idea...

 

And no, this is not our first band!

 

[JBJ]

drop singer 1.

 

D is saying he's going to leave if you don't get back gigging soon yet still wants to run with a singer who might never be gig ready out of some stupid idea of commitment to someone he barely knows?

[slider]

invite both singer 1 and 2 to a rehearsal. maybe two singers are better than one.? maybe singer 1 will discovered that she isn't a singer after hearing singer 2.

talk to singer 2 and explain the situation. give singer 1 a chance. play a gig. maybe she will rise to the occasion or fall. eeither way, she and you all will know.when (if) singer 1 leaves the band singer 2 had been informed and can then be hired.

 

just some ides.

[THX1138]

A rough singer can kill a good band.

 

A good singer can lift a {censored}ty band.

 

A good singer in a good band.... you get the idea.

 

Who makes you better? There's your answer.

 

And why in hell are the wives involved?

[arf-boy]

The wife had it right. {censored}ers!

 

-o-o-o-

 

Naw, not really. Sounds like bad timing.

 

Keep singer 2. Explain to singer 1 that, had there been no band-breakup pressure, you might have kept her. Then tell her the areas where you fel she could improve, without being snotty about it.

 

Take a deep breath and go forward.

[Guitar Centaur]

And why in hell are the wives involved?

 

Amen.

 

Wives should have nothing to do with this.

 

It's a business. If you don't treat it like one, it won't be successful. Period.

 

We just ditched the drummer that broke his arm for a nationally recognized guy who has had videos on MTV, and a song on a major motion picture soundtrack.

 

We all felt a little weird about it, but...

 

A) the band is a business, and this guy, aside from the fact that he's an absolute MONSTER on drums, carries with him quite a bit of cred and puts the band in a much better bargaining position for better gigs.

 

and

 

B) It turns out after having the dreaded "talk" with drummer A, that he planned on packing it in soon anyway, as he's burned out on gigging.

 

So, we move forward, and the band becomes more successful.

 

Now, if the economy doesn't collapse and take all the nightclubs with it...

 

[SpaceNorman]

Oh were they all so simple! Here's how I'd approach it....

 

Fire Singer #1 Justification: New hires are ALWAYS on probation when starting a gig. The fact that she snowed folks through the audition is immaterial. If she's proven that she can't handle the gig after multiple rehearsals since being awarded the position - all bets are off. That's just business.

 

Hire Singer #2 Justifcation: The firing of Singer #1 in the preceding paragraph created an opening. She's presented qualifications that appear to fit the bill. Do this soon ... quality candidates don't stay available for long.

 

Assemble Bandmembers A thru Z for a "group hug". Although they're beating themselves and each other up over a perceived "infidelity" - the fact of the matter is that no infidelity occurred. They may have felt an attraction, thought about the possibilities and even flirted a little - all of which is natural and normal. As a band member I converse with lots of different musicians - and regularly discuss what these folks might bring to the bands I'm involved in. Said conversations may go so far as to talk about the possible circumstances under which they'd be given an opportunity to audition. I make no bones about the fact that I do it. I would have no issues if my band mates do it. As long as nobody OFFERED anybody a spot or made any COMMITMENTS on behalf of the band without the consent of the full band - there's NO foul. As far as beating themselves about offering spot to Singer #1 too early ... once again, the group made the best decision based on the information available at the time. There's a lesson to be learned (...analagous with the lesson everybody learned when they bought that pair of shoes that didn't fit well because they were cheap....) Make note to remember that lesson for future searches. Again - band stuff is just business.

 

Oh...and before I forget. While the aforementioned "group hug" is underway. Remind Bandmembers A thru Z that they and only they have standing in any discussions regarding band business. Acknowledge that there are lots of outsiders (bar owners, friends, relatives and even wives) who will express opinions about what the band does or should do - BUT reinforce that ONLY the band members' opinion count. Suggest that all bandmembers pass that along to any outsiders (bar owners, friends, relatives and even wives) who they may feel should be reminded of their lack of standing in band business.

 

Lastly - get to work on getting your act back on track with your new singer!

 

Good luck!!!!

[Gorgon90]

If you want to go anywhere with this project, remember that it's the music business and you have to be businesslike about it. Man up, politely tell Singer 1 that she isn't up to it, and get it sorted with Singer 2 asap.

[deepblue]

This is a classic example of what happens in a 'democratic-no-band-leader-cluster-{censored}'. The band should never be at the mercy of any one player. Why are you even considering a singer who cant sing? Fear. No confidence in yourselves or your individual talents. In the presence of a clearly defined leader there is none of this going behind someones back BS. I wouldnt waste my time w/ singer #2 either who obviously is a flake and will not be around 6 months from now (mark my words here) If your calendar is full of dates you wont have a problem finding a singer Id you do have a problem finding a singer, get to work finding tunes you can do w/out a designated 'vocalist'. Never allow the band to hinge on any one person. If you only have the prospect of more gigs, tell player D to {censored} off.

 

As for the 'spouses'....tell them to {censored} off as well.

[Psychotronic]

Singer 1 needs to go. Period. Unless you guys like being a {censored}ty band.

[jaxn slim]

 

Oh were they all so simple! Here's how I'd approach it.... Fire Singer #1 Justification: New hires are ALWAYS on probation when starting a gig. The fact that she snowed folks through the audition is immaterial. If she's proven that she can't handle the gig after multiple rehearsals since being awarded the position - all bets are off. That's just business.

 

 

This. Now. You will kick yourself in the ass if you don't.

[Nijyo]

 

Oh were they all so simple! Here's how I'd approach it.... Fire Singer #1 Justification: New hires are ALWAYS on probation when starting a gig. The fact that she snowed folks through the audition is immaterial. If she's proven that she can't handle the gig after multiple rehearsals since being awarded the position - all bets are off. That's just business. Hire Singer #2 Justifcation: The firing of Singer #1 in the preceding paragraph created an opening. She's presented qualifications that appear to fit the bill. Do this soon ... quality candidates don't stay available for long. Assemble Bandmembers A thru Z for a "group hug". Although they're beating themselves and each other up over a perceived "infidelity" - the fact of the matter is that no infidelity occurred. They may have felt an attraction, thought about the possibilities and even flirted a little - all of which is natural and normal. As a band member I converse with lots of different musicians - and regularly discuss what these folks might bring to the bands I'm involved in. Said conversations may go so far as to talk about the possible circumstances under which they'd be given an opportunity to audition. I make no bones about the fact that I do it. I would have no issues if my band mates do it. As long as nobody OFFERED anybody a spot or made any COMMITMENTS on behalf of the band without the consent of the full band - there's NO foul. As far as beating themselves about offering spot to Singer #1 too early ... once again, the group made the best decision based on the information available at the time. There's a lesson to be learned (...analagous with the lesson everybody learned when they bought that pair of shoes that didn't fit well because they were cheap....) Make note to remember that lesson for future searches. Again - band stuff is just business. Oh...and before I forget. While the aforementioned "group hug" is underway. Remind Bandmembers A thru Z that they and only they have standing in any discussions regarding band business. Acknowledge that there are lots of outsiders (bar owners, friends, relatives and even wives) who will express opinions about what the band does or should do - BUT reinforce that ONLY the band members' opinion count. Suggest that all bandmembers pass that along to any outsiders (bar owners, friends, relatives and even wives) who they may feel should be reminded of their lack of standing in band business. Lastly - get to work on getting your act back on track with your new singer! Good luck!!!!

 

 

I agree with this, and I think its the second time I've ever agreed with SpaceNorman.

 

I also agree with the ones who said the wives should not be involved. Whisky Tango Foxtrot do they have a say? If they aren't part of the band proper, they get no input.

[A Happy Crowd]

One of my old bands acted too quick to invite a replacement drummer into the band. Her drumming wasn't very good, which led to the band not sounding good, which led to other members losing interest, and that caused the band to break up.

 

If Singer 1 isn't showing any improvement, it's going to cause more problems down the road. I'd go with Singer 2.

[BlueStrat]

[Austincowbell]

Your singer is basically the audience's connect point to your band. Singer #1 isn't very good. Therefore, your band isn't very good. You're not voice teachers. Fire her now.

 

and for hiring a singer who can't sing you are NOT {censored}ers, you are dumb-{censored}ers.

[Feud]

Throw Singer 1 & Singer 2 into a small swimming pool filled with KY Jelly.

Make them fight nakedto the brink of certain doom, then hire Singer 2 anyway.

Film all the goings on, post on YouTube, and there you have your first documented story, ready for press on MTV.

[P. Wallace]

Singer 1 must be pretty hot if peeps is willing to keep her around compared to a singer who can actually sing.

[Khatru]

It was more than a little bit revealing to air all this laundry on a public forum, but I have a very firm opinion on where we went wrong, and what we should now do about it.

 

Since not all of us in the band seem to see this situation in the same way, I thought I would like a little reality check. And you gave me one!

 

Thanks folks. I might well be a dumb-{censored}er, but at least I'm not a crazy, dumb-{censored}er!!!

 

And for the record, I don't disagree with ANYTHING said here.

 

Not even in the slightest.

 

 

P.S. All three singers are very nice to look at, FWIW, and no I won't be posting any pictures, so don't ask.

[boxorox]

Have the "Things just aren't working out" discussion with singer 1. You need to have the best musicians possible. Might not have been so hard if you'd gone on with the agreemet that you'd try a couple shows, a probatonary period, but that's past. And I do feel your pain. Letting people go is always hard. If it comes up again try to leave yourself some honorable wiggle room.

[rhat]

 

I agree with this, and I think its the second time I've ever agreed with SpaceNorman. I also agree with the ones who said the wives should not be involved. Whisky Tango Foxtrot do they have a say? If they aren't part of the band proper, they get no input.

 

 

 

Foxtrot uniform charlie kilo thats for sure. No yokos

[tim_7string]

It's a no-brainer to me. You want everyone to be on the same level or even better than yourself, not worse. Having an amateur singer front your group, no matter how they look, will just hurt the credibility of your band.

 

Let Singer 1 down easy, but firmly and go with Singer 2.

 

I just hope Singer 2 doesn't turn out to be a diva...but even if she does, you'll have to decide if you want the band to sound good (and just deal with the personality behind the scenes) or if you want everyone to be buddy-buddy and not care about the prestige, cash or impression your band will make upon everyone else.

[Austincowbell]

I would just like to mention that for any future story, people should make up names. And if they are going to make them up, porn names would be better. I'll explain:

 

a) Singer A think that bass player B plays behind the beat too much, but drummer C has always been happy with B. Its only when guitar player D plays behind bass player B that singer A gets confused.

 

OR

 

b) Destiny, the singer thinks that Cinnamon our bass player, plays behind the beat too much, but Piston, our drummer, has always been happy with Cinnamon. Its only when Steve Nailer, the guitarist plays behind Cinnamon that Destiny gets confused.

 

see?? it just reads better.

[uz3r]

DO NOT settle for singer 1.

 

From experiance, DO NOT do it.

[JAFH]

If you are a good, working band, the last thing you want to do is hire a "work-in-progress". My band went through something similar with the hiring of a female singer and more recently a drummer. The reality is that if the person you are hiring can't hang, they can't hang. They should find a band that is around their level and grow with them, rather than hold you back.

Tell Singer 1 that things are not progressing and nicely give her the boot.

Hire Singer 2.

[JAFH]

 

I would just like to mention that for any future story, people should make up names. And if they are going to make them up, porn names would be better. I'll explain: a) Singer A think that bass player B plays behind the beat too much, but drummer C has always been happy with B. Its only when guitar player D plays behind bass player B that singer A gets confused. OR b) Destiny, the singer thinks that Cinnamon our bass player, plays behind the beat too much, but Piston, our drummer, has always been happy with Cinnamon. Its only when Steve Nailer, the guitarist plays behind Cinnamon that Destiny gets confused. see?? it just reads better.

 

 

+1