Sometimes you get the diamond in the rough, sometimes you get the lemon

[wades_keys]

I'd rather have one or 2 axes that cost a little more and play consistently than a stable full of project guitars.

 

But that's just me; more power to ya.

[arf-boy]

 

I'd rather have one or 2 axes that cost a little more and play consistently than a stable full of project guitars. But that's just me; more power to ya.

 

 

None of mine is a project. All were bought used. Each does something different.

 

I did put an under-saddle pickup in the Yammie dreadnaught and plan to replace the tuning heads on the little Yammie, but that's about it.

[wades_keys]

None of mine is a project. All were bought used. Each does something different. I did put an under-saddle pickup in the Yammie dreadnaught and plan to replace the tuning heads on the little Yammie, but that's about it.

Word.

 

I was more referring to the OP.

[MartinC]

I've got a mexican strat and a 335 copy made in korea, and a PRS(see pic at left) And I'll tell you the PRS is a lot better. A LOT better. 200. for the mexican strat, 200.00 for the 335 ripoff, almost 3k for the prs. Is it worth the difference? I've also got a yamaha flamenco guitar (300.00) and a handmade Ramirez flamenco from Spain. I got it many years ago at a great price but it would probably cost 4k or more to replace it. Is it worth the 3-4k more than the yamaha?

 

The answer in both cases is YES. The idea that a guy who's never made a guitar can equal a prs first time out is absurd IMO. As far as the Ramirez, those master craftsmen are practically born into their trade. Methods handed down to them. You could spend your whole life and probably not come close.

 

I don't care if your sitting at home noodling while watching tv, or doing a concert, it's worth it to invest in the best instrument you can afford. Think about how many hours you spend playing over say, a five year period, divide by the difference in money, and your saving pennies per hour in order to play inferior guitars. If you simply can't afford a great guitar, that's fine. But if you think your getting as good an instrument by using cheapies, your not. Go into a shop and play some really good axes, and be honest about it. If you still can't feel or hear the difference, then you've saved yourself a lot of money. Which you can spend on a top quality amp:)

 

 

 

 

 

 

An electric guitar is about 94% wood. The sound comes from the electronics and the gear it's plugged into. Using so-called "tone woods" on an electric doesn't impress me because you'll never be able to tell a tonal difference once it's plugged in whether it's basswood, ash, alder, maple, mahogany, etc. No one is going to convince me that a Fender, Rickenbacker, PRS, Gibson, etc has $2000-3000+ of "craftsmanship" that goes into shaping and assembling that wood. I could probably build a guitar basically equal to any of those right in my apartment and I've never built one before, not even from parts. I'm planning on starting one early next year - I'm just assembling the tools I'll need to get started and finalizing the design of the body and headstock. I was tempted to make one with a Floyd Rose, but I'm probably just going to go with a string-thru-body. Obviously I don't have CNC capability in my place so I'll be hand shaping the body, neck and fretboard. I'll probably use some books as guides but I have my own ideas as to how I'll go about it.

 

[wades_keys]

My mother has a hernandez nylon string guitar (I believe it's the "concierto" model) - she bought it in the early 80's for about 1,500 or so...

 

I've played that thing countless times over the years, and played other decent-quality nylon string axes like Yamahas.

 

But when you do an A/B comparison, the Hernandez blows the other axes out of the water.

 

It is loud, yet warm. I've never heard a nylon string guitar speak like that hernandez - it will fill a room with sound.

 

Just thought I'd share that - even though this is an acoustic instrument.

[zekmoe]

 

It's not a question of affordability, it's a question of whether or not I want to pay $$$ for a logo and I personally don't. I don't buy Nike shoes either - I buy my shoes at Payless and even then not until it's buy 1 pair get another at 1/2 price. So I get 2 pairs of shoes for less than $40 and they last me for 3 years. I buy my clothes on sale or not at all. I have never owned a new car. Some things are just not that important to me.

 

 

3 years for the same pair of $40 sneakers!??? We live in different worlds I guess. I'm hardly a rich guy, but I coulnd't do those things above unless destitute. It just sounds strange to me, though I'm not passing judgment. I just don't really know anyone who does all that stuff by choice.

Just a question, but what is worth spending money on to you? Do you travel (i.e. $10,000 Alaskan cruises)? Or is nothing "worth" the money? Trying to gain some perspective. Have a decent sized house and a vacation home? Eat at fine restaurants a couple of times a week? I'm just wondering where the entertainment money goes, if not for gear, cars, clothes and stuff.

[SunRaFan]

 

I've got a mexican strat and a 335 copy made in korea, and a PRS(see pic at left) And I'll tell you the PRS is a lot better. A LOT better. 200. for the mexican strat, 200.00 for the 335 ripoff, almost 3k for the prs. Is it worth the difference? I've also got a yamaha flamenco guitar (300.00) and a handmade Ramirez flamenco from Spain. I got it many years ago at a great price but it would probably cost 4k or more to replace it. Is it worth the 3-4k more than the yamaha? The answer in both cases is YES. The idea that a guy who's never made a guitar can equal a prs first time out is absurd IMO. As far as the Ramirez, those master craftsmen are practically born into their trade. Methods handed down to them. You could spend your whole life and probably not come close. I don't care if your sitting at home noodling while watching tv, or doing a concert, it's worth it to invest in the best instrument you can afford. Think about how many hours you spend playing over say, a five year period, divide by the difference in money, and your saving pennies per hour in order to play inferior guitars. If you simply can't afford a great guitar, that's fine. But if you think your getting as good an instrument by using cheapies, your not. Go into a shop and play some really good axes, and be honest about it. If you still can't feel or hear the difference, then you've saved yourself a lot of money. Which you can spend on a top quality amp:)

 

 

I think this post is spot on. If you are going to be playing a lot of music, it's certainly worth buying a nice instrument. For electric guitars, that doesn't even mean you need to spend a fortune. It is worth it to pay enough that the manufacturer wasn't having to make compromises on materials or craftsmanship. My #1 guitar is a US made semi-hollow G&L ASAT (tele). I bought it off of ebay for $600. I've played a bunch of US G&Ls, and they are all pretty good, but this one is the best of the bunch by far. I don't think you are going to get something in the same ballpark starting with guitars that were made to be cheap instruments for beginners.

[wades_keys]

 

I think this post is spot on. If you are going to be playing a lot of music, it's certainly worth buying a nice instrument. For electric guitars, that doesn't even mean you need to spend a fortune. It is worth it to pay enough that the manufacturer wasn't having to make compromises on materials or craftsmanship. My #1 guitar is a US made semi-hollow G&L ASAT (tele). I bought it off of ebay for $600. I've played a bunch of US G&Ls, and they are all pretty good, but this one is the best of the bunch by far. I don't think you are going to get something in the same ballpark starting with guitars that were made to be cheap instruments for beginners.

 

6string still makes some good points about electric guitars though.

 

For example, I've seen, heard and played 150 dollar OLP's that rival if not destroy guitars that cost 4 times as much.

 

I think the majority of the workmanship that "matters" to playability is going to be in the neck construction; many pros (eg George Lynch, Henry Garza) bolt excellent necks onto "beater" bodies and get a fine playing and sounding axe.

 

Of course electronics are often inferior in the cheapo electrics, but that is an easy and inexpensive upgrade.

 

Hey 6, do yourself a favor and get an OLP - you won't be disappointed.

[ggm1960]

 

For example, I've seen, heard and played 150 dollar OLP's that rival if not destroy guitars that cost 4 times as much.

 

$600 doesn't get in the high quality ballpark either.

 

You'll never get a guitar with quality wood, inlay work, neck and body binding for less than $1000, and that's a low figure.

This is my side by side comparison analysis.

 

Preferring expensive high quality guitars is just something I've always done. I wouldn't expect 6 or anyone else to feel the same. Always use the guitar that best suits you.

[wades_keys]

 

$600 doesn't get in the high quality ballpark either. You'll never get a guitar with quality wood, inlay work, neck and body binding for less than $1000, and that's a low figure. This is my side by side comparison analysis. Preferring expensive high quality guitars is just something I've always done. I wouldn't expect 6 or anyone else to feel the same. Always use the guitar that best suits you .

 

Yup.

 

Interestingly, our guitarist has several Les Pauls, including my old LP Custom Black Beauty.

 

He actually prefers the tone and playability of the OLP to the Black Beauty.

[6StringSling]

 

6string still makes some good points about electric guitars though.Hey 6, do yourself a favor and get an OLP - you won't be disappointed.

 

I've bid on a couple before but they went out of range of what I was willing to pay. I've tried to get a couple of G&L's also.

[6StringSling]

 

Of course electronics are often inferior in the cheapo electrics, but that is an easy and inexpensive upgrade.

 

Most can be done for between $15 & $30 if you're not upgrading the pickups.

[modulusman]

When you play guitaroke you can play a piece of crap. If you ever get into a real band you might actually have to spend some money. You own 16 POS. Sell them and buy a couple of good guitars. By the way I live about 10 miles from the factory that builds Gibson acoustic guitars. They destroy guitars that have the slightest flaw and most of them would sound better than anything you own.

[tim_7string]

Back in 1992, I went to a music store in town here. I tried a $300 Fender Stratocaster. Played okay, sounded good, I thought. Then I tried a $1000 Fender Strat. Man, it was like night and day! I could suddenly play better, the sound was amazing, the feel of the neck, the weight...everything.

 

I also did a 'shootout' in 2000 when I bought my beloved Ibanez AX7521. I was originally looking at the cheaper Korean-made AX7221, but I didn't like the sound of the pickups and the neck felt a little stiff. When I played the 7521 (which was $200 more), it was no contest. I had a big smile on my face and eventually bought it.

 

However, I always keep in mind that Eddie Van Halen basically toured the world in the early days with POS guitars. He put together cheapo necks to cheapo bodies, wired up the pickups and used it for hours in front of thousands of people, then did the same thing the next night. For him, the guitar didn't have to be thousands of dollars (although he certainly does make 'em in that range now), it just did the job it was supposed to do.

 

So, for me, it's all personal taste. I have played on a friend's $1300 ESP and my cousin's former bandmate's $2000 PRS guitar. They both played about the same as my old $525 Ibanez RG guitar. Just like with the keyboard on a synthesizer, if the neck ain't happening for me, the guitar ain't happening, no matter how much it cost.

[wades_keys]

 

Back in 1992, I went to a music store in town here (when I lived out of town at the time). I tried a $300 Fender Stratocaster. Played okay, sounded good, I thought. Then I tried a $1000 Fender Strat. Man, it was like night and day! I could suddenly play better, the sound was amazing, the feel of the neck, the weight...everything. I also did a 'shootout' in 2000 when I bought my beloved Ibanez AX7521. I was originally looking at the cheaper Korean-made AX7221, but I didn't like the sound of the pickups and the neck felt a little stiff. When I played the 7521 (which was $200 more), it was no contest. I had a big smile on my face and put it on layaway, playing it every week until it was paid off a few weeks later. However, I always keep in mind that Eddie Van Halen basically toured the world in the early days with POS guitars. He put together cheapo necks to cheapo bodies, wired up the pickups and used it for hours in front of thousands of people, then did the same thing the next night. For him, the guitar didn't have to be thousands of dollars (although he certainly does make 'em in that range now), it just did the job it was supposed to do. So, for me, it's all personal taste. I have played on a friend's $1300 ESP and my cousin's former bandmate's $2000 PRS guitar. They both played about the same as my old $525 Ibanez RG guitar. Just like with the keyboard on a synthesizer, if the neck ain't happening for me, the guitar ain't happening, no matter how much it cost.

 

 

I saw George Lynch at a clinic last week - he still plays the Charvel body he pulled from the dumpster back in the mid 70's.

 

It's got an ESP neck on it now though.

 

I would bet the workmanship on those old Charvel's was pretty good for the time; they were still a real small outfit back in those days, and Grover Jackson owned the company.

[SunRaFan]

 

In the first place, none of you can qualitatively define "quality" - it's a variant with an ambiguous value. If a guitar plays well and you can create "quality" music how can you deny that it's a quality instrument? Each of the above responses says "gear snob" even though I'm certain you'd each deny it. There is a huge difference in how I compare guitars as opposed to how you guys do it. I never said that any of my guitars are better quality than far more expensive guitars, I've simply said that to me, a $2000-3000+ guitar isn't that much higher in quality to justify the price difference. What you have all indicted in no uncertain terms is that if I didn't pay X amount, then it's not a quality instrument. The very first thing you're doing is comparing price and that is the hallmark of the gear snob.

 

 

How I compare guitars has nothing to do with price. You admit yourself that there are more expensive guitars that are better quality than the guitars you are playing. My point and Martin's point is that if you are going to play the guitar a lot even a minor improvement is worth a lot of cash.

[6StringSling]

 

They destroy guitars that have the slightest flaw and most of them would sound better than anything you own.

 

Really? I guess their idea of a slight flaw and Musician's Friend's idea of a slight flaw are two different things seeing as how there are Gibson Acoustic guitars for sale on Musician's Friend that are considered blemished.

 

And you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Gibson or any of mine if you heard them recorded. You wouldn't be able to tell which were single coils, which were humbuckers, which used a bridge pickup, which used a neck pickup, which used both, which had 250k pots, which had 500k pots, which had what kind of cap wired in, which had what brand and what gauge of strings, which had what kind of tuners, which ones were made of which kind(s) of wood, etc, etc.

[6StringSling]

 

I saw George Lynch at a clinic last week

 

Was it worth it? He's coming to Portland Music in November.

[6StringSling]

 

However, I always keep in mind that Eddie Van Halen basically toured the world in the early days with POS guitars. He put together cheapo necks to cheapo bodies, wired up the pickups and used it for hours in front of thousands of people, then did the same thing the next night. For him, the guitar didn't have to be thousands of dollars

 

And he also learned to play on Kay guitar from Sears. Golly, just think how good he could have been if had learned on "real/quality" guitar!

[wades_keys]

 

Was it worth it? He's coming to Portland Music in November.

 

Oh hell yeah - it was free!

 

He's a very intelligent and gracious dude, not to mention a smoking lead player.

[SunRaFan]

 

I wouldn't have to spend a dime - any of my guitars is more than good enough to play in any band and would stand up to any of the rigors. Really? I guess their idea of a slight flaw and Musician's Friend's idea of a slight flaw are two different things seeing as how there are Gibson Acoustic guitars for sale on Musician's Friend that are considered blemished. And you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Gibson or any of mine if you heard them recorded. You wouldn't be able to tell which were single coils, which were humbuckers, which used a bridge pickup, which used a neck pickup, which used both, which had 250k pots, which had 500k pots, which had what kind of cap wired in, which had what brand and what gauge of strings, which had what kind of tuners, which ones were made of which kind(s) of wood, etc, etc.

 

 

Is this supposed to be a joke?

[6StringSling]

 

How I compare guitars has nothing to do with price. You admit yourself that there are more expensive guitars that are better quality than the guitars you are playing. My point and Martin's point is that if you are going to play the guitar a lot even a minor improvement is worth a lot of cash.

 

Putting more artistry into a guitar doesn't make it more playable. I wouldn't trade any of my guitars for a MIA Custom Fender Strat - I hate the neck. A Fender Strat is not a playable guitar to me. All of my guitars are playable to me and that's all I care about. You're not going to be able to convince me that there is $2000-3000 worth of more playability in a Fender, PRS, Gibson, Jackson, Ibanez etc. I've played all of them and more and the playability doesn't justify the price.

 

The most I have ever come to spending on a guitar is $1200. And that's a JS-1000. I don't find them to be any more or less playable than any of the guitars I already have; I'm just a Satch fan and I want one of his guitars. I'm a Vai fan too but I'm not forking out $2000+ for a Jem. I may still go for the JS-1000 but possibly just a used one which can easily be had for $700 instead of $1200 for a new one. I've evn thought about buying a used Chrome Boy. But this is just because I want a Satch guitar, not because I think they're great players compared to what I already own. As much as I love my Delat DLE Gold and that Stadium, my most playable guitar is the Titan FG-011TBK that I bought new for $37. One of these days I'll get around to redoing the electronics and upgrading the pickups.

[modulusman]

I wouldn't have to spend a dime - any of my guitars is more than good enough to play in any band and would stand up to any of the rigors. Really? I guess their idea of a slight flaw and Musician's Friend's idea of a slight flaw are two different things seeing as how there are Gibson Acoustic guitars for sale on Musician's Friend that are considered blemished. And you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Gibson or any of mine if you heard them recorded. You wouldn't be able to tell which were single coils, which were humbuckers, which used a bridge pickup, which used a neck pickup, which used both, which had 250k pots, which had 500k pots, which had what kind of cap wired in, which had what brand and what gauge of strings, which had what kind of tuners, which ones were made of which kind(s) of wood, etc, etc.

Just on the musicians friend site. The guitars that you say are blemished are scratch and dent. Those are mostly guitars that were returned or damaged during shipping. I doubt they left the factory that way.

[6StringSling]

 

Oh hell yeah - it was free! He's a very intelligent and gracious dude, not to mention a smoking lead player.

 

Yeah, I saw Dokken on Van Halen's Monsters of Rock tour at the Seattle Kingdome in '91.

[6StringSling]

 

Just on the musicians friend site. The guitars that you say are blemished are scratch and dent. Those are mostly guitars that were returned or damaged during shipping. I doubt they left the factory that way.

 

I don't doubt it at all - I've talked to dealers and luthiers and they have plenty of stories to tell about "brand new Gibsons".