Members 6StringSling Posted July 21, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hey 6stringsling....What's YOUR minimum for taking a music gig?js I don't gig but if I did, it would depend upon the situation, the reason for the gig, the length of the gig, the requirements for the gig, etc. I doubt very much that I'd do a 4-5 hour gig for less than $150. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Icarus Posted July 21, 2009 Members Share Posted July 21, 2009 Bull{censored}. It's about one thing - not accepting less than you're worth in your own eyes. If you choose to accept less, you shouldn't bitch about it acting you're getting screwed. "It just seems silly to me that people place a certain price on their musical abilities yet act as if they've been screwed over when they find out how much others are getting paid.Is it really that hard, in most scenarios, to just not play at all if you're not going to get paid what you really believe you're worth?" This is where your thread started off. 1) You didn't provide any examples to prove that people are "bitching" about getting screwed and not paid what they're worth. 2) You don't even gig yourself, what the hell are you talkin about :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6StringSling Posted July 21, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 21, 2009 This is where your thread started off. 1) You didn't provide any examples to prove that people are "bitching" about getting screwed and not paid what they're worth. 2) You don't even gig yourself, what the hell are you talkin about :poke: There were examples. And whether or not I gig has nothing at all to do with anything. Gigging is freelance work and in that respect is no different than any other freelance work where YOU the freelancer, decide whether or not you'll work for a certain price. And since I have done freelance work, I know exactly what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Icarus Posted July 21, 2009 Members Share Posted July 21, 2009 There were examples. And whether or not I gig has nothing at all to do with anything. Gigging is freelance work and in that respect is no different than any other freelance work where YOU the freelancer, decide whether or not you'll work for a certain price. And since I have done freelance work, I know exactly what I'm talking about. Quit beating around the bush and lay a real argument on the table. You're full of hot air and slowly deflating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueHeaven Posted July 21, 2009 Members Share Posted July 21, 2009 Bull{censored}. It's about one thing - not accepting less than you're worth in your own eyes. If you choose to accept less, you shouldn't bitch about it acting you're getting screwed. No. There is a market value for the service you provide based on the amount of added revenue you provide to an employeer. And if you're doing gigs at what you thought the going rate was bands of the same magnitude at $500 a night only to find out the rest are getting $800 a night for the same service and quality, you charge more. A band or artist is only worth what the amount of $$$$ they can bring in. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Icarus Posted July 21, 2009 Members Share Posted July 21, 2009 A band or artist is only worth what the amount of $$$$ they can bring in. End of story. WIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6StringSling Posted July 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 A band or artist is only worth what the amount of $$$$ they can bring in. End of story. Only to someone who is paying. Just because a bar/club/venue says "This is all we can afford and still make a profit" then the response from me would be "Well, thank you for the offer but you can't afford my band." It still comes down the same thing - if YOU make the choice to accept less than what YOU think YOU'RE worth, it's YOUR choice and you have no reason to bitch about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 I can't say I'm a big fan of playing bars for free, but many bars around here are simply deciding they can't pay the fiddler and using DJ's and karaoke instead. Without a pretty good draw, a band isn't going to be able to pry 400 bucks out of a bar owner just to entertain patrons who would be there anyway. That's what a jukebox is for these days. I'm starting to look for alternative venues so I can get our name out there and build an audience. Most of these don't pay, but drawing the line at a hundred bucks a man has resulted in four months of no gigs whatsoever. If you can't or won't even get your friends/family at a minimum to come out and support you, then you can't expect to be competitive. You gotta find a way to bring a consistent draw, and increase your satisfaction ratio. Ask yourself why you're not getting repeat bookings at the venues you are currently playing, and fix that. It sounds like you're thinking too much about "credibility" and money, and not focusing enough on being better: musically, stage presence, and guaranteed draw.... To me, the best sign of things being right or at the least better than good enough, is when the venue is happy with you and wants you back. Man, I've been in a situation or two where my band got paid more than it should have, and didn't live up to the expectations: that's the worst man. Don't kid yourself: if you ain't moving drinks, you're nothing more than a loss leader at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 Only to someone who is paying. Just because a bar/club/venue says "This is all we can afford and still make a profit" then the response from me would be "Well, thank you for the offer but you can't afford my band." That's when you tell em that you WILL ring the till: they WILL have (x) amount of good drinkers and tippers in their place that otherwise wouldn't be there. It's tough to get to that point: right now my band has a guaranteed draw of approx. 30 folks, most of which are in fact moderate/heavy drinkers and good tippers. But Tim is a genius with the promo, and maintains a mailing list. I'd like to see that number increase to 50 or more.... And you know: you're saying you're gonna go from "100 bucks a man" to playing for FREE? DUDE.....up your negotiating skills - so ya got overpaid........go back in there and get paid what you're worth, and find real ways to promote your band: collect e-mail addresses at gigs to put on the mailing list, get a banner, advertise in the local news, play a benefit/fundraiser. I played with some cats a while back that wanted to equate musical/band tightness to gig pay: that was a big, big mistake, and i found that getting overpaid is a great way to make quick "hit and run money", as well as trash your bands name and future gig chances. Tip: drink (in moderation) on stage: make sure the drinker is the type to make eye contact....sets the tone...you want people to drink at your shows, at least i do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Icarus Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 Only to someone who is paying. Just because a bar/club/venue says "This is all we can afford and still make a profit" then the response from me would be "Well, thank you for the offer but you can't afford my band." How many bands have you actually booked for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bloolight Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 If you can't or won't even get your friends/family at a minimum to come out and support you, then you can't expect to be competitive.You gotta find a way to bring a consistent draw, and increase your satisfaction ratio. I don't see where we disagree here. We're not competitive right now, no doubt about it. Our friend/family rate so far has averaged about 20-25 people, and that's not cutting it. We had a local place that really loved us and had booked us twice, but they're dropping live bands altogether now. We need a draw so that negotiating with other bar owners will be more productive. I'm thinking that playing non-traditional venues (even if it's for free) and working the hell out of the audience will help us establish a draw of non-relatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 I don't see where we disagree here. We're not competitive right now, no doubt about it. Our friend/family rate so far has averaged about 20-25 people, and that's not cutting it. We had a local place that really loved us and had booked us twice, but they're dropping live bands altogether now. We need a draw so that negotiating with other bar owners will be more productive. I'm thinking that playing non-traditional venues (even if it's for free) and working the hell out of the audience will help us establish a draw of non-relatives. Non-traditional venues cater to non-traditional crowds and music; you're not gonna build your draw playing for free or near free at a venue known for hosting originals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Icarus Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 Non-traditional venues cater to non-traditional crowds and music; you're not gonna build your draw playing for free or near free at a venue known for hosting originals. How else would you suggest an original band build up their draw aside from playing shows? Bear in mind, when you first start playing shows as an original act, you can't walk up to any bookie and say I want $500 to open up at your venue. You have to work your way to the top before you can do that. Unless you know of another method, enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 How else would you suggest an original band build up their draw aside from playing shows? Bear in mind, when you first start playing shows as an original act, you can't walk up to any bookie and say I want $500 to open up at your venue. You have to work your way to the top before you can do that. Unless you know of another method, enlighten me. I was operating on the assumption that bloolight is in a cover band. Originals are a whole different breed entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Icarus Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 I was operating on the assumption that bloolight is in a cover band. Originals are a whole different breed entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bloolight Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 I was operating on the assumption that bloolight is in a cover band.Originals are a whole different breed entirely. Ah, well...we are and we aren't. We play all of our original songs at gigs, and then fill the remaining three hours with covers. So I guess we're a hybrid of sorts. When I talk about non-traditional venues, I'm actually talking about events where music isn't necessarily the main attraction. For example, there are several large craft/artisan shows around here that invite bands to play during the day. I used to think I'd avoid these things, but now I'm changing my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 Well, he was getting 100/man guaranteed pay; I've yet to see an all-originals act (in his league) pull that off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Austincowbell Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 This thread makes me want to bash my head against a wall.... It's someone who doesn't gig talking about a complaint people who DO gig make even though they aren't making it followed by him saying what he would say if he DID gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 This thread makes me want to bash my head against a wall.... It's someone who doesn't gig talking about a complaint people who DO gig make even though they aren't making it followed by him saying what he would say if he DID gig. "If I were, the king of the world, I tell you what I'd do....":cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kid Icarus Posted July 22, 2009 Members Share Posted July 22, 2009 This thread makes me want to bash my head against a wall.... It's someone who doesn't gig talking about a complaint people who DO gig make even though they aren't making it followed by him saying what he would say if he DID gig. ... And somebody needs to reconstruct their main point I think I know what you're getting at though, the OP doesn't gig and he's just bitching period. He has no real scope or authentic base for his claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6StringSling Posted July 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted July 23, 2009 ... And somebody needs to reconstruct their main point I think I know what you're getting at though, the OP doesn't gig and he's just bitching period. He has no real scope or authentic base for his claims. You feel like? Wow, after some of the posts you've made in BSWTB I would've thought that bashing your head against a wall was just part of your pre-gig warm-up. I would never go so far as to the call the guitaraoke stuff I do a gig, but I play live in front of an audience 8-10 days a month. I play the songs I like and I play them the way I want with the gear of my choice. I dress the way I want and act the way I want. In other words, I have fun doing what I want to do, the way I want to do it and my hobby stays a hobby and doesn't become work. WTF does it matter if I gig or not? There are people here who bitch about how much they get paid. There are people here who bitch about how the bar/club pay hasn't changed since the 70's. All I'm saying, is that if you choose to play for less than your own perceived worth, then you shouldn't be bitching about it because you're the one who decided to play for that amount. It's pretty simple to just not play. I frequently get offers to play for pay or even teach for pay. I don't even ask how much, I just politely decline. I frequently get offers to start or audition for bands. I don't ask any questions, I just politely decline. Hell, just last weekend someone offered to pay me just to jam with him. It has nothing to do with how much of a guitarist/musician I think I am, it has to do with the value I place on my time. The average person/band probably can't afford my time and I don't want to insult them with some ridiculous dollar figure so I just politely decline. i.e. I CHOOSE NOT TO PLAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted July 23, 2009 Members Share Posted July 23, 2009 I don't gig but if I did, it would depend upon the situation, the reason for the gig, the length of the gig, the requirements for the gig, etc. I doubt very much that I'd do a 4-5 hour gig for less than $150. {censored} I can hire local guns here in my area for 100$ a night and these guys eat breathe and {censored} guitar because they're work at the local music store and also teach guitar from metal to classical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted July 23, 2009 Members Share Posted July 23, 2009 {censored} I can hire local guns here in my area for 100$ a night and these guys eat breathe and {censored} guitar because they're work at the local music store and also teach guitar from metal to classical. Don't forget that they are all great businessmen and really know the business end of being a musician. :rolleyes:The reason most musicians don't get paid worth a damn is because they don't realize that being in a band involves more than being a good musician. Business and marketing skills are way more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted July 23, 2009 Members Share Posted July 23, 2009 It's someone who doesn't gig talking about a complaint people who DO gig make even though they aren't making it followed by him saying what he would say if he DID gig.With all due respect, that is kind of a specious argument. It's a bit like saying that unless you have been shot at in combat in the military, you can't have any opinion about war, or if you've never been a millionaire, you have no right to judge the lifestyles of the rich and famous. The fact is, all of us express opinions all the time about things we've never experienced first hand at all. Experience with something is neither an automatic qualifier nor makes anyone an expert on any given topic. You may disagree with 6SS, but it doesn't mean his opinion isn't a valid one, especially with a topic as subjective as this one. Experience is irrelevant to the idea of whether one should be paid for providing a service or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cherri Posted July 23, 2009 Members Share Posted July 23, 2009 Well, he was getting 100/man guaranteed pay; I've yet to see an all-originals act (in his league) pull that off. We pull down $150 - $200 per man for festivals, that's one all-original set. This summer has been more outdoor concerts than bar gigs - usually a two hour original/cover mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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