Going into the studio next month, any advice?

[BlueStrat]

 

Here's the bottom line-- Once you've got some studio experience under your belt, it's fine to bring a good kit into the studio, especially when a label is fronting the cash. But, when it's your first time in the studio, and you're paying the bill, a club kit isn't going to cut it. Something that sounded good through a PA in a club isn't necessarily going to sound good in the studio. In fact, it's probably going to sound like someone beating on wet cardboard.

 

 

There's something to this. My drummer uses a different kit to record than he does to play live. Likewise, I use several amps, most of which never see the stage.

[wades_keys]

The engineer at a popular local studio here became "known" among bands for his "drum sound".

 

I don't know how common that is elsewhere, but I've read that mic'ing and achieving good/great drum sounds in the studio is one of the most difficult tasks an engineer can accomplish.

 

Chris (the engineer) had his way of doing things with drums - that resulted in a certain sound that got his studio attention.

 

In that situation, why take chances when you can go with the known good?

[MarvinDog]

Not to be contrary, but even entry-level kits can serve well in the studio. Tuning and mic choice/placement are HUGE factors. (Not that I disagree with using the studio's kit in most situations)

 

Everything you just said is true, but it's getting off-topic.

 

The OP's situation is that this is his very first time in a studio spending his band's cash. This is not the time to find out that their drummer's kit is crap in the studio, or spending a full day trying to get it to sound good.

 

And again, for the OP, ignore the "click ruins feel" advice-- it's bull{censored} said by amateurs. If you want to sound tight and pro, use a click.

[DevilRaysFan]

 

There's something to this. My drummer uses a different kit to record than he does to play live. Likewise, I use several amps, most of which never see the stage.

 

 

Im that way with bass: I record bass mostly direct with or without a SansAmp, so the basses (and fresh strings!) are whats important, as opposed to any amp/cab. I have different basses that I record with that I rarely or never use live. In the past, I always used a Fender Jazz in the studio for funk, rock, blues, or jazz (I recently reacquired a Hwy1 Jazz bass that I love the tone of - still scratching my head why I got rid of it in the first place). I also have a fretless non-Fender Jazz. My Peavey T-40s are great for country music in the studio (there was a studio in my area that used to request T-40 back in the dayz when I was doing a lot of session work)

 

But, live, I primarily use my G&L ASAT....I record with it occasionally, but opt for the Jazz in the studio

[BATCAT]

 

If you want to sound tight and pro, use a click.

 

 

I actually think this: if you want to sound tight and pro, be able to play your material well with OR without a click...

[wades_keys]

 

I actually think this: if you want to sound tight and pro, be able to play your material well with OR without a click...

 

Truth.

[MarvinDog]

 

I actually think this: if you want to sound tight and pro, be able to play your material well with OR without a click...

 

 

Very true!

[BlueStrat]

I actually think this: if you want to sound tight and pro, be able to play your material well with OR without a click...

 

Right.

 

But (and this comes from the engineers who did my last two CDs) the majority of bands that record have no business being in the studio in the first place, so a click is a must.

 

But that's a different thread!

[Lee Flier]

 

But (and this comes from the engineers who did my last two CDs) the majority of bands that record have no business being in the studio in the first place, so a click is a must.

 

 

In my experience, most bands who have no business being in the studio can't play any better with a click than without one. In fact, oftentimes I'd rather hear the tempo going all over the place than the trainwreck that happens when people who aren't used to playing to a click try to keep up with it.

 

In any case, I never record my own band with a click and only record other people with a click if they ask for one. The "anybody who doesn't want to play to a click is an amateur" line is BS. If you're a good musician, you can sound good with a click but you can also groove without one, and let the groove breathe. If you're a hack, you're going to sound like a hack whether you play with a click or not. 99% of the time I prefer hearing recordings that didn't use one.

[Lee Flier]

 

All of this is great advise. If you haven't planned on using a click track, you may want to rethink that, especially if you're recording on Protools. Having everyone on the click makes editing a whole lot easier, which can save you time/money. If someone screws up or hits a clunker, you can often cut'n'paste from somewhere else in the song. This is next to impossible without a click.

 

 

No it isn't (and I say this as an audio engineer). With Beat Detective you can generate a tempo map after the fact, and stretch a part from one verse to fit the tempo of another verse if they don't match exactly. I prefer making the technology serve the human feel, rather than the other way around, and it really doesn't take much more time anymore than editing on a straight grid.

 

If your engineer is asking you to change the way you perform in order to make HIS job easier, you should probably find another engineer. If the song really demands precision time as an artistic decision, and you think musically it sounds better with a click, then fine, use a click. But let that be the only reason you would use one.

[Lee Flier]

 

Cant every drum kit be set up so it's pretty much the same as the way he sets his normal one up? I mean - things can be adjusted etc

 

 

No. Different drums sound different - if they're different sized drums, have different heads, etc. not to mention if the drummer is used to playing a kit that is larger or smaller than the house kit.

 

I have a really nice Gretsch kit in my studio, and most inexperienced drummers do want to use it because I keep it tuned up and ready to go, and we know there'll be no issues recording it - it's probably better than what they have and they realize this. But if a drummer has his own kit that he's used to and it's a different configuration/different drum sizes than mine, by all means he should use it. It doesn't take too long to find out he's got a kick pedal that rattles or squeaks, and if WD40 doesn't fix it then maybe he should use mine. I just tell him ahead of time that if he's using his own kit, he should have new heads on the drums and he should tighten the crap out of them a couple of days before so they get thoroughly stretched out and we can tune them. I warn him about hardware rattle and things like that which will hold up a session if they aren't taken care of.

 

If it's their first time recording and it's a tight budget, though, it takes less time to use my kit and most of them want to. Either way is fine - I always feel that the best option is whatever the musician is most comfortable with.

[wades_keys]

Levon Helm is a human click track.

 

That cat is rock solid steady.

[theAntihero]

 

In any case, I never record my own band with a click and only record other people with a click if they ask for one. The "anybody who doesn't want to play to a click is an amateur" line is BS. If you're a good musician, you can sound good with a click but you can also groove without one, and let the groove breathe. If you're a hack, you're going to sound like a hack whether you play with a click or not. 99% of the time I prefer hearing recordings that didn't use one.

 

 

I agree with this. There are plenty of bands that their music is not dead on timing but the band is tight. Take Led Zep for example, plenty of their songs speed up in places, but the band stays together and it sounds good. I dont think LZ could be called amatuer.

 

 

I actually think this: if you want to sound tight and pro, be able to play your material well with OR without a click...

 

 

I agree here as well.

 

 

Either way is fine - I always feel that the best option is whatever the musician is most comfortable with.

 

 

This is the point im trying to make, people play better when they are comfortable.

 

 

Levon Helm is a human click track. That cat is rock solid steady.

 

 

Charlie Watts is another usually mentioned as a human click track, but sadly not all drummers are 100% right on timing, but are still great drummers.

[Lee Flier]

 

The engineer at a popular local studio here became "known" among bands for his "drum sound". I don't know how common that is elsewhere, but I've read that mic'ing and achieving good/great drum sounds in the studio is one of the most difficult tasks an engineer can accomplish.

 

 

This is true.

 

 

Chris (the engineer) had his way of doing things with drums - that resulted in a certain sound that got his studio attention. In that situation, why take chances when you can go with the known good?

 

 

Well, being known for getting great drum sounds in the studio doesn't necessarily mean all the drummers you record use your kit!

 

An engineer who is known for getting good drum sounds generally gets that rep because he/she knows how to tune drums, fix squeaky/rattling hardware, use good mic placement, usually has decent mics and room acoustics. Given those skills you can generally make almost any kit sound great, possibly swapping out a few parts like a cymbal or kick pedal, or using a different snare. A lot of young players who have a crappy set are very happy to use the house kit, but even halfway decent kits can be made to sound good by someone who knows what they're doing.

[Jimbroni]

Whether to use a click or not should depend on the music style, and not because of studio paradigms or lack of band skill or laziness on the engineers part.

 

For instance. Modern Pop yes. Metal yes. electronic yes. hip hop maybe a little of both, new country - yes. Old country - maybe, Funk - never, voodoo rock - no, jamband - no, jazz no, psycadelic - never, etc.

[Lee Flier]

Exactly.

[DevilRaysFan]

 

Whether to use a click or not should depend on the music style, and not because of studio paradigms or lack of band skill or laziness on the engineers part. For instance. Modern Pop yes. Metal yes. electronic yes. hip hop maybe a little of both, new country - yes. Old country - maybe, Funk - never, voodoo rock - no, jamband - no, jazz no, psycadelic - never, etc.

 

 

Some of those vary: Funk, for instance, can be either/or depending on what or who we are talking about....For the most part, 70s funk would be "No", but - then of course - this isnt the 1970s..........However,70s disco-funk like GQ and 80s bands like The Deele, Ready For The World, 80s Cameo, Jesse Johnson's Review, etc all have set BPMs...most 90s+ Gospel-Funk also does

 

Also, having a set BPM in funk makes doing remixes, dub mixes, edit mixes, and extended mixes a whole lot easier (some Remixers, like me, wont even touch it if its not a set BPM)..........

 

Same for blues: certain bands do, while others dont (mostly the bigger-name 'Blue Eyed Soul' blues bands do)

 

Like I said in a previous page, if the recording medium is 'digital', I would highly recommend a click track on almost anything unless not having one is detrimental to the music (jam or jazz bands aside)...Im not saying its 'required', but it helps with a whole lot of other mixing and mastering options..................

[BlueStrat]

 

In my experience, most bands who have no business being in the studio can't play any better with a click than without one. In fact, oftentimes I'd rather hear the tempo going all over the place than the trainwreck that happens when people who aren't used to playing to a click try to keep up with it. In any case, I never record my own band with a click and only record other people with a click if they ask for one. The "anybody who doesn't want to play to a click is an amateur" line is BS. If you're a good musician, you can sound good with a click but you can also groove without one, and let the groove breathe. If you're a hack, you're going to sound like a hack whether you play with a click or not. 99% of the time I prefer hearing recordings that didn't use one.

 

 

Hey, I agree with you. I recorded 4 CDs and only used click tracks on a few of the tracks (one a solo acoustic track that had no drums at all and was for my benefit). Clicks have their place, and can help some folks and hurt others. I just think being able to play with one makes you a better player than you would be by not being able to play with one.

[Vermoulian]

To get back to the OP's question...

 

If, at the very least, you don't want to look like idiots and want to make a good impression on whoever is recording you, check out this thread:

 

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/26430-stupidest-things-you-have-ever-heard-during-session.html

 

GearSlutz is a forum for recording engineers, and that thread is a compilation of the stupidest things they have heard/seen/heard about in the course of recording sessions. It is, as I type this, just over 100 pages long. But it's hilarious reading, and it will definitely clue you in on what NOT to do.

[thomazzz]

Don't care how many other people have saisd this because it cannot be stressed enough: Practice with a click.

[pjrake]

 

To get back to the OP's question... If, at the very least, you don't want to look like idiots and want to make a good impression on whoever is recording you, check out this thread: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/26430-stupidest-things-you-have-ever-heard-during-session.html GearSlutz is a forum for recording engineers, and that thread is a compilation of the stupidest things they have heard/seen/heard about in the course of recording sessions. It is, as I type this, just over 100 pages long. But it's hilarious reading, and it will definitely clue you in on what NOT to do.

 

 

this is awesome!!!

 

"we're gonna be rich!" LMAO !!!

 

-PJ

[Consume]

 

Click tracks are not stupid.

 

 

 

I've found that for Commercial/"Corporate" Music, they click is a necessity. But if you are just rocking out, I prefer to play without it.

 

It's like the Beatles.... when they hit the choruses, the tempo speeds up just a hair, and when they hit the verses it will slow down just a little, and that gives songs motion/life/excitement.

Not everything is meant to be quantized for cut and paste editing.

[Consume]

 

Don't care how many other people have saisd this because it cannot be stressed enough: Practice with a click .

 

 

 

I have no problem practicing with a click - I've done it for over 20 years, but my thing was always - practice with it, play without it.

Unless you're doing some kind of radio type of thing, and then I would just program the drum parts ahead of time (I'm a drummer) and then just load the MIDI files at the studio and find really good samples to use for the tracks.

[Consume]

 

This is true. Well, being known for getting great drum sounds in the studio doesn't necessarily mean all the drummers you record use your kit! An engineer who is known for getting good drum sounds generally gets that rep because he/she knows how to tune drums, fix squeaky/rattling hardware, use good mic placement, usually has decent mics and room acoustics. Given those skills you can generally make almost any kit sound great, possibly swapping out a few parts like a cymbal or kick pedal, or using a different snare. A lot of young players who have a crappy set are very happy to use the house kit, but even halfway decent kits can be made to sound good by someone who knows what they're doing.

 

 

 

That is very true. As long as the drum is round, and the heads are good - if you know how to tune, and have good mic's and know how to mic a kit or know a room you are recording in really well - you can even make a cheapo set sound really good on tape.

[Kramerguy]

 

And again, for the OP, ignore the "click ruins feel" advice-- it's bull{censored} said by amateurs. If you want to sound tight and pro, use a click.

 

 

I was making a simple point that some songs can be better without a click. That's all. To make such an ignorant argument that anyone who disagrees with your position is 'amateur' just shows what a egomaniac musician sounds like.

 

You've obviously never played with a drummer with perfect or near perfect tempo. I have. Quite the opposite of amateur, I assure you.