How do you test a band that invited you for auditioning ?

[wro]

how do you test a band that invited you for auditioning ?

 

I no longer commit after the first try, even it was fine. I try to throw in a song of mine to check how open they are, so I know if they are really willing to let me put my stamp in the band.

 

If they ignore it or reject it I do not commit and keep searching.

[flanc]

That's a good idea..if that's important for you. We just did the musician hunt to replace a band mate. One of our criteria was that the prospective band mate didn't want to put his stamp on the band. Now, this is not to say we just wanted hired guns, but rather we have a business plan / mission statement /established direction..so to speak. Within those parameters, we give all our guys liberty to suggest/modify/create.

 

So, (hypothetically)if you were auditioning for our band, we/I would really appreciate that honesty up front. Nothing worse than someone hiding their true feelings up front only to let you know they really hate your setlist and had visions of turning your party/dance band into a classic rock band (or whatever the "stamp" may be).

 

I'd also advise that you might look for projects that are still trying to get off the ground. A band with a strong reputation and gig schedule is not likely to spend time to learn your song unless they are really impressed with you (this may be the case) and find you to be a stellar fit (or their options are limited).

 

All the best on your hunt for a band! It can sometimes be tough to find a good fit!

[HirsuteND]

Yeah, I wouldn't test them on the sly. I'd quiz them orally--be upfront. Let them know what your vision is, and see how they take it. Better to get that on the table the first day, rather than put your time in and serve up too spicy of a meatball several weeks down the road.

[BlueStrat]

One of our criteria was that the prospective band mate didn't want to put his stamp on the band.

How the hell does that happen? Every new band member changes the band. Why wouldn't you want new members to add their take on things? Maybe he has some great ideas, ones you didn't think of. It happens.

[rhat]

really pay attention to the bands skill sets. Vocals, rhythm section and general way they interact as band. If you see somthing that you know is going to be an issue for you move on. It might take a few sessions for you to really know if you are right for the band and the band is right for you.

[flanc]

 

How the hell does that happen? Every new band member changes the band. Why wouldn't you want new members to add their take on things? Maybe he has some great ideas, ones you didn't think of. It happens.

 

 

I think I explained in the sentences that followed the quote, but it all lies in the definition of "stamp". A prospective musician can show me how he puts his "stamp" on the songs that exist in our defined set list. I'd be anxious to see that! How they put their "stamp" on our direction....I'd entertain the discussion and if the "stamp" was within our parameters and desirable...then it's all great.

 

I think your underlying point is that a new member will absolutely change the dynamic of a band and thereby em blaze their "stamp" regardless...no argument from me. However, if the prospective member says "I can play your Kings of Leon and Katy Perry songs, but I'd like the band to incorporate some songs I really like - such as some Doors and BTO"...well then that "stamp" won't fit for us. I'm not knocking the Doors or BTO, but they don't fit our direction.

 

Maybe our band is different than most and my comments aren't generally relevant. Our band is not a total democracy; nor, is the worked shared evenly. My wife and I do all the booking, website maintenance, we front the band, provide the PA and set the general direction of the band. As singers we know are strengths and as a long running band (almost 10 years) we have a reputation and expectations from our fans and the venues in which we play. I don't want a new guitar players "stamp" to conflict with that.

 

I guess it's all in semantic's. It depends on what you mean by "stamp".

[mstreck]

I no longer commit after the first try, even it was fine.

 

We've decided to be the same way when searching for a bandmate. Too many people misrepresent themselves trying to "fit the mold" and end up being a disappointment in the end.

 

Below are some statements that one guy made at his audition and the eventual results...

 

1. I'm always early. He was 45 minutes late for a load in at his third show because he "had to get something to eat".

 

2. I know music theory. At a rehearsal, I said "This song is in harmonic minor. Do you know what that is?". I could tell from the uncomfortable "yes" (and the look in his eyes) that he didn't know squat.

 

3. I'll play/do whatever you guys want. He tried to steer us from being a pop/dance party band to playing 311/Incubus and "woe is me" rock. He even threw a hissy-fit at a rehearsal when we wanted our singer to sing one of those songs instead of him.

 

 

What's worse, he ended up being "that guy". At *every* show we played someone would comment about his bad vocals and/or "rock star" posings. We eventually acknowledged that he really wasn't working out and jettisoned him, but learned a valuable lesson in the process.

 

On the other hand, we took on a guitar player friend of his that had a really BAD audition ONLY because we were stuck. He turned out to be a fantastic bandmate - and a fantastic guitar player!!!!

 

To keep this on topic: be honest about yourself and your abilities. It will save everyone a lot of time/energy.

 

Maybe a 90 day probationary period is something bands should consider?

[SpaceNorman]

 

Maybe a 90 day probationary period is something bands should consider?

 

 

I know exactly where you're coming from with this suggestion - and agree in principal. I don't know if it's necessary (or even wise) to come right out and tell somebody they're on probation. Telling them they're on a 90 day probation simply encourages 90 days of good behavior - and only delays the inevitable if there are in fact skill and/or fit issues.

 

I've always felt like one should embrace new bandmates as warmly and enthusiastically as possible in the hopes that they'll feel like they're genuinely a part of the group and make the mental commitment necessary to get past the initial spate of conversations that are filled with "my old band used to.." and "do you guys always...?" and move quickly to that point where everybody is talking "we".

 

Reality is that if you've got the power to hire somebody - you've also got the power to fire somebody. Firing somebody who's relatively new to the group after issues with skills and/or fit emerge is the easiest "firing" there is.

[BlueStrat]

 

However, if the prospective member says "I can play your Kings of Leon and Katy Perry songs, but I'd like the band to incorporate some songs I really like - such as some Doors and BTO"...well then that "stamp" won't fit for us. I'm not knocking the Doors or BTO, but they don't fit our direction.

 

Okay, I get what you're saying now. I'm a little thick between the ears sometimes...

[rccCrawler]

 

Too many people misrepresent themselves trying to "fit the mold" and end up being a disappointment in the end.

 

 

BINGO!

 

I find it is VERY important to get all the cards on the table up front, to avoid wasting both your time and the time of the prospective band mate. That leads to a lot of auditions that don't happen, or a lot of auditions that end up leading to nothing, but I would rather have that then get 6 months into it and find out its not really a good fit.

 

So I do a LOT of probing to find out what that person REALLY wants in terms of direction, and I find that the 'set list' is the key to finding this out. There are many different methods one can use, such as has been suggested (you need to learn our set list first before anything else), but there are many others as well. Point is, you need to drill deep and find out where that person is really coming from, and there are ways you can do that, and to me the most effective are methods surrounding the set list. Things like: given this list of 20 songs, which 5 would you do? Which 5 would you add that are not on this list? etc etc I'm sure everyone has lots of experience with this.

 

The set list is the single biggest tool you have to ensure people are on the same page. Another thing I sometimes do (if the band I'm in is established) is similar to what someone suggest here: Once you'd learned our entire set list, then you will have an equal say in any new material we do. Sometimes this seems harsh, but if one of your goals is not to get redirected, I've always found that redirectors are not going to go through the effort of learning 20 ~ 50 songs before their chance at redirecting comes up.

 

I don't think people necesarily misrepresent themselves intentionally, it's just that they don't want to close any doors that might lead to something interesting. That's great if you are starting an original band from scratch - those differences can lead to a much more interesting combination in the end - but if you've got a clear vision in mind with either cover or original material, it pays to dig down and find out where a person is really coming from. I wouldn't hold it against them, it's just human nature. It's also human nature to hold our cards close to the vest and not reveal too much. You need to get through that to determine if a person is a good fit long term.

 

That's just IMHO.

[Flogger59]

I let the band warm up, then drive it like I want it to break. If it holds up, SOLD!

[flanc]

We've decided to be the same way when searching for a bandmate. Too many people misrepresent themselves trying to "fit the mold" and end up being a disappointment in the end. Below are some statements that one guy made at his audition and the eventual results... 1. I'm always early. He was 45 minutes late for a load in at his third show because he "had to get something to eat". 2. I know music theory. At a rehearsal, I said "This song is in harmonic minor. Do you know what that is?". I could tell from the uncomfortable "yes" (and the look in his eyes) that he didn't know squat. 3. I'll play/do whatever you guys want. He tried to steer us from being a pop/dance party band to playing 311/Incubus and "woe is me" rock. He even threw a hissy-fit at a rehearsal when we wanted our singer to sing one of those songs instead of him. What's worse, he ended up being "that guy". At *every* show we played someone would comment about his bad vocals and/or "rock star" posings. We eventually acknowledged that he really wasn't working out and jettisoned him, but learned a valuable lesson in the process. On the other hand, we took on a guitar player friend of his that had a really BAD audition ONLY because we were stuck. He turned out to be a fantastic bandmate - and a fantastic guitar player!!!! To keep this on topic: be honest about yourself and your abilities. It will save everyone a lot of time/energy. Maybe a 90 day probationary period is something bands should consider?

 

We've been down that road before and we've been guilty, to our extreme detriment, of waiting far too long to jettison out a bad seed. With this in mind, during our recent auditions, we were very thorough in our questions with those who were auditioning. We were also very upfront with our expectations regarding: how we are paid, how often we gig, how we book gigs, what typical geographic footprint we play, what type of music we play, how we determine new songs, what we expect at load-in / load-out, etc, ...ad nauseum.

 

I'd recommend to the OP and anyone auditioning to make sure these types of conversations are covered before you entertain an offer join a band.....better yet, before you show up to audition.

[rebelwoapplause]

I totally agree with much of the advice in this thread, especially the idea of discussing matters up front and re-evaluating as matters unfold. I don't think it works to show up for an audition and suggest everyone learn song X you want to do. That would be a total fail in terms of learning how open the band is to new ideas. If someone did that I'd reject them simply for their arrogance. I would see it as arrogant to show up to a working band and already have a song you want to suggest before even taking the time to learn to work with the working band on what is already working for them. In my view, before someone suggests new songs, they have to pay some dues first--they are small dues, like, say, being in the band, actually showing up to load-in on time, and such simple stuff, but they must be paid. Once that happens (say, after a few weeks or maybe a month), suggestions would not only be welcomed, they'd be encouraged.

 

Rebel

[toneforhire]

I have no set rules...it depends on the situation

they either:

hate you

like you, will keep you in mind

like you alot, you have it, until something better comes along

they LOVE you and your in

 

same with you and the band...its like anything else...everyone wants the best gig they can get...most bar band guitarists are close as far as skill goes, what sets them apart is their "look" and how easy going they are...

 

I can honestly say I have turned down WAY more offers from bands than I have been denied offers from bands...I KNOW after the audition if im gonna want to play with them or not, and if they want me they usually aske me on the spot, if they want to wait thats when its iffy...when I wait and then get the offer, I KNOW its given with hesitation and they are looking for something better...

[wro]

Being upfront is the first thing I do with prospective bands. However I found out that the first conversations go like "yes, we are open to suggestions", "everything is up in the air", "do whatever you want to improve the song", "no need to reproduce the recording", "show me your idea" and then I learn a couple of the songs. Later on when I bring my suggestions nobody embraces them. Then starts the "that lead should be with more distortion", "dont play anything here", "that is not the original melody", "that tune does not fit" and bla bla bla.

It seems they misrepresent themselves just to get you in. How do you mitigate that risk ?

 

That's why I decided from now on to bring my ideas already at the second practice and see where it goes.

 

If it is a working band and there is money involved I will play even Lady Gaga but that is not what I am looking for.

[rccCrawler]

Absolutely, BOTH sides need to be up front and honest, and that can be a real challenge.

 

In addition, the other members of the band have to be on the same page as to the approach that is being taken. I once had members disagreeing over how to handle a singer we were auditioning that was not being as reliable as we would like. I took this (along with other things I noticed) to be examples of a luke warm response to the direction of the band, and wanted to cut losses with this person and move on to other candidates. Another member wanted to keep trying it and 'see where it leads'. Not saying what is right or wrong, just saying if the member of the band are not on the same page about how to go about this process, then this can quickly lead to band dissention as well.

[New Trail]

 

how do you test a band that invited you for auditioning ? I no longer commit after the first try, even it was fine. I try to throw in a song of mine to check how open they are, so I know if they are really willing to let me put my stamp in the band. If they ignore it or reject it I do not commit and keep searching.

 

 

Are you auditioning for them or are they auditioning for you?

[mstreck]

 

Are you auditioning for them or are they auditioning for you?

 

 

Isn't it always "both"?

[rebelwoapplause]

 

Being upfront is the first thing I do with prospective bands. However I found out that the first conversations go like "yes, we are open to suggestions", "everything is up in the air", "do whatever you want to improve the song", "no need to reproduce the recording", "show me your idea" and then I learn a couple of the songs. Later on when I bring my suggestions nobody embraces them. Then starts the "that lead should be with more distortion", "dont play anything here", "that is not the original melody", "that tune does not fit" and bla bla bla. It seems they misrepresent themselves just to get you in. How do you mitigate that risk ? That's why I decided from now on to bring my ideas already at the second practice and see where it goes. If it is a working band and there is money involved I will play even Lady Gaga but that is not what I am looking for.

 

 

FWIW, bands have two dimensions--business, and (social) relationship. Business can be done by people being up front. If that's all it took, the Beatles would never have broken up. The reason bands break up is usually less about business, and more about relationships. And, the thing about relationships is people can be as up front and honest as possible, but no one can really say where the relationship will go. Relationships take time, and there's no way getting around it.

 

Thus, for example, every member may really want the new member to contribute new ideas. But, if the second practice the new person starts suggesting what to do, it may feel a bit odd. Maybe they expected the new member to get the sense of the band before piping up with ideas. In other words, their discomfort does not mean they are insincere or unwilling to hear new input. Timing matters, for all parties.

 

I liken it to dating. If the second sentence out of your mouth is "Let's go back to my place and f**k," well, many will turn you down. Of course, that works sometimes, but less regularly for most. However, if you let it ride for a bit, taking it a bit slower, you may get exactly what you both want on a more regular basis. Of course, one can dispense with the niceties, and just go down to the appropriate corner and conduct a straight business transaction. It should be clear--these are not the same things, even for a one-night stand.

 

FWIW

 

Rebel

[New Trail]

 

Isn't it always "both"?

 

 

Yeah, it is of course but maybe the OP shouldn't be so obvious about it. Maybe just asking them what their thoughts are about (1) your contributing song ideas (2) learning and playing your original music (3) if they want you to be a full on member or just play a part. It kinda depends on the band, too. If it's an established band that has a lot of bookings they may just want you to do your thing within the context of their existing show, but if it's a new band just getting started they may want any and all input that you would give.

[Kramerguy]

how do you test a band that invited you for auditioning ? I no longer commit after the first try, even it was fine. I try to throw in a song of mine to check how open they are, so I know if they are really willing to let me put my stamp in the band. If they ignore it or reject it I do not commit and keep searching.

 

I take a more simple approach:

 

- Can ALL of the existing members play, and control, their instruments? (drummer control volume & fills, guitar control wanking, etc..)

*if not, I don't come back.

 

- Did the band come prepared on the songs I'm auditioning with?

*if not, I don't come back.

 

- Was there good communication between the band to me before the audition (choosing songs, timely replies, etc...)

*if not, I still audition, but it's a major flag, they are on thin ice.

 

- Anyone show up drunk or high?

*I don't even unpack my gear.

 

- Any noticeable egos?

*time and time again, every time I've made exceptions, no matter HOW damn good of a musician they are, it NEVER bodes well. ever. ever.

[TrickyBoy]

I take a more simple approach: - Can ALL of the existing members play, and control, their instruments? (drummer control volume & fills, guitar control wanking, etc..) *if not, I don't come back. - Did the band come prepared on the songs I'm auditioning with? *if not, I don't come back. - Was there good communication between the band to me before the audition (choosing songs, timely replies, etc...) *if not, I still audition, but it's a major flag, they are on thin ice. - Anyone show up drunk or high? *I don't even unpack my gear. - Any noticeable egos? *time and time again, every time I've made exceptions, no matter HOW damn good of a musician they are, it NEVER bodes well. ever. ever.

 

Your an a**hole (just kidding - couldn't help myself)

 

I'm way more subjective. I don't commit right away - go to a few practices and make sure it feels right. All the drama, drugs, ego and other crap flush themselves out. I can think of 2 occasions where I auditioned for a band, quasi joined, and then quit within a month or two when I realized that there was {censored} happening that I didn't want to deal with.

 

No sweat off my ass - I got to play, refine my chops, etc.

[Kramerguy]

Your an a**hole (just kidding - couldn't help myself) I'm way more subjective. I don't commit right away - go to a few practices and make sure it feels right. All the drama, drugs, ego and other crap flush themselves out. I can think of 2 occasions where I auditioned for a band, quasi joined, and then quit within a month or two when I realized that there was {censored} happening that I didn't want to deal with. No sweat off my ass - I got to play, refine my chops, etc.

 

I used to try that, but I was in a couple of bands that DID have deep-rooted issues that were kept under wraps for several months before revealing themselves, so now I commit based on one audition, and when I see the "deep rooted issue" flags, it's a judgement call. So far, I've never made the right call... but hey .. how would you know when you did?

[stevesherbert]

unless i receive a link to the band's myspace page or some mp3s over the emails i cannot consider you a band. sorry if that's harsh but i don't think you can say that you do something unless you have actually done it. send me something crap ass from your garage i don't care. who can't record themselves these days? a lack of resources / initiative / music is not a good sign.

[ernald]

 

unless i receive a link to the band's myspace page or some mp3s over the emails i cannot consider you a band. sorry if that's harsh but i don't think you can say that you do something unless you have actually done it. send me something crap ass from your garage i don't care. who can't record themselves these days? a lack of resources / initiative / music is not a good sign.

 

 

i can agree...but i think what's being discussed here is more about what is going to be expected of the relationship between the band and the "new guy." that's something that a myspace page or mp3's won't tell you. you need to meet with the band and talk to them to get that kind of info.

 

-randy