Think of this next time a bar wants you to play cheaply

[Hegmatronicon]

Yep. It's really been cracked down on here. When I was a kid, the drinking age here was 19, 18 in Montana and Wyoming. Washington was 21, so here in North Idaho the clubs would be packed. Legal BAC level in Idaho was.12%. Then the federal government arm twisted the states to raise the age to 21 or risk losing federal highway funds. Then, they started getting pressure from MADD and insurance groups to lower the BAC level to .10 and then .08; soon it might be down to .06 and some places are talking about .05.

 

 

Thats not a bad thing IMO. It's .05 here and there HAS been talk of making it .02 (which IMO is a bad thing).

 

I guess we are lucky in that we can catch taxi's to ppls houses 15 mins away or walk or have a DD when we drink (most times).

[Hegmatronicon]

Yeah, same here where I am. But Heg, you're in Australia and I'm in Canada - two countries where massive drinking is raised to an artform LOL

Haha true.
Altho it's being cracked down on again out here.

[BlueHeaven]

NIAGARA FALLS—A safe with $6,450 was stolen from a Third Street bar overnight, Niagara Falls police said Monday. A repairman arriving at the Tap Room on Monday morning discovered a broken window. Police found a basement door forced open, with a $1,500 camera stolen along with the $200 safe, which contained $6,450 in cash, stolen. The total loss was placed at $8,450. I don't know this bar or if they even have bands, but if this is any indication of the kind of cash floating around bars, I certainly won't feel bad for sticking to my guns about price when the owner cries about the 'ol "Slow" night and wants the band to play for less money.

Umm, that is not a lot of money for a business to do on a daily basis just to break even.

[MartinC]

Umm, that is not a lot of money for a business to do on a daily basis just to break even.

Yeah, with that kind of cash, why is the guy even working? He should have retired and be living large in Costa Rica by now...............

[TrickyBoy]

Yeah, same here where I am. But Heg, you're in Australia and I'm in Canada - two countries where massive drinking is raised to an artform LOL

I'll call your Australia and Canada and raise you a Louisiana. We have drive-through daiquiri shops here!

[BlueStrat]

Everything you said is the same here - except the BAC is .05 I didnt say we were driving when we were drinking. If we are "out drinking" we either catch a taxi to someone's house locally and stay there, walk somewhere local and stay there, or have a DD for the night.

 

 

 

Taxis don't work where I live. We're way too spread out. A club might be 30 miles away. No one walks anywhere.

[toneforhire]

Its not just the amount...but the sleaze bags who want yo to bring "a crowd"
So basically I con all my friends and family to coming out and spending lots of money on YOUR {censored}ing cover, food, drinks...so you can cash in and give me a few pennies...{censored} you...

Ill just play back yard barbqs, put out a tip jar or provide a keg and charge cover, and cut out the middleman...which is what we are looking at doing with a few other local bands this spring/summer/fall...putting together what we call "{censored}-the-bars-pallooza"...we provide the place, beer, maybe food...charge cover...{censored} the middle man...the bars around these parts have gotten ridiculous...

[BlueHeaven]

Its not just the amount...but the sleaze bags who want yo to bring "a crowd" So basically I con all my friends and family to coming out and spending lots of money on YOUR {censored}ing cover, food, drinks...so you can cash in and give me a few pennies...{censored} you... Ill just play back yard barbqs, put out a tip jar or provide a keg and charge cover, and cut out the middleman...which is what we are looking at doing with a few other local bands this spring/summer/fall...putting together what we call "{censored}-the-bars-pallooza"...we provide the place, beer, maybe food...charge cover...{censored} the middle man...the bars around these parts have gotten ridiculous...

 

 

If the band doesn't increase the bars revenue. . .then why the hell are they going want you to play there or pay you? It's not charity. If they simple make what they make on a normal night with or without a band. . .why even add the expense?

 

It's not worth it for a band to play for free or chicken scraps, I agree. It is also not worth it for a bar to hire and pay a band to make chicken scraps. It goes both ways.

 

The OP's original post about the $6500 in cash is somehow a LOT of money for an establishment to make is kinda a joke.

[toneforhire]

If the band doesn't increase the bars revenue. . .then why the hell are they going want you to play there or pay you? It's not charity. If they simple make what they make on a normal night with or without a band. . .why even add the expense? It's not worth it for a band to play for free or chicken scraps, I agree. It is also not worth it for a bar to hire and pay a band to make chicken scraps. It goes both ways. The OP's original post about the $6500 in cash is somehow a LOT of money for an establishment to make is kinda a joke.

 

 

I hear ya...but the usual paying bar gig doesnt pay enough for the band to advertise/market/promote...a very well known local band that has people follow them from bar to bar doesnt usually work for the pennies most bars are willing to pay these days...a bar band shouldnt be expected imo to BRING the crowd, they should be expected to KEEP the crowd IN THE BAR...

[BlueStrat]

 

If the band doesn't increase the bars revenue.

 

 

I've increased a lot of bars' revenues without being responsible for bringing their crowd. It isn't the same thing. This topic has been beat to death here, but suffice it to say that the band bringing the crowd didn't become the norm until just a few years ago. Once upon a time, bars used to actually invest in their own success, and build their own clientèle regardless of who was playing. They brought them, we kept them there spending money. That's how it worked.

 

Personally, I've witnessed every bar here that has depended on the band's draw has changed hands numerous times and many have closed. The clubs that promote themselves and don't depend on live music for income are still in business and have been for many years. I'm gigging at one in a couple of weeks.

[badhabit]

It should be a win-win scenario. The establishment gets more income than they would if there was no live entertainment, the establishment receives publicity, which can increase traffic into their establishment and the establishment elevates itself from being a mere, dime a dozen watering hole. The band receives a fair income for it's performance, the band increases it's notoriety and legitimacy and it's performances improve as a result of playing out. The real problem here is defining a "fair" income. The owner will argue his expenses vs. income and need for profit. The band will argue the same. The problem lies with perceived value. If the owner does not increase his income by having live music, then there is little value for him. What also complicates the situation is when there are bands that will play for peanuts because they do not need the income or they're just getting started.This isn't an uncommon business plan, btw. It's quite common for a new business to offer lots of free stuff and low prices until they get established. New bands will often use the same model. Add in less venues to play and you can see who usually has the upper hand in negotiating pay.

[BlueHeaven]

I've increased a lot of bars' revenues without being responsible for bringing their crowd. It isn't the same thing. This topic has been beat to death here, but suffice it to say that the band bringing the crowd didn't become the norm until just a few years ago. Once upon a time, bars used to actually invest in their own success, and build their own clientèle regardless of who was playing. They brought them, we kept them there spending money. That's how it worked. Personally, I've witnessed every bar here that has depended on the band's draw has changed hands numerous times and many have closed. The clubs that promote themselves and don't depend on live music for income are still in business and have been for many years. I'm gigging at one in a couple of weeks.

 

 

 

And if you are a good well established band, those are the gigs you get. Not the case for 4 buddies starting a weekend warrior band driving out the normal crowd with a half ass PA playing metallica covers all night.

 

The established agency bands in my area get paid, they get paid well, and play at the establishments that will be packed Saturday night with or without them. A no name band just ain't gonna get those gigs. They have to settle for the bars that are normally empty on Saturday nights; the pay and work style fits the bill for where they are playing.

[BlueStrat]

 

And if you are a good well established band, those are the gigs you get. Not the case for 4 buddies starting a weekend warrior band driving out the normal crowd with a half ass PA playing metallica covers all night.

 

 

If as bar hires a band like that without doing their homework (again, it used to be part of the bar owner's job) they deserve what they get.

[MrKnobs]

Anyone who exhorts musicians not to play for free or cheap is just pissing up a rope. Seriously!

 

I have a South by Southwest (SXSW) show tonight. It will start with a hour crawl down the interstate to travel the 11 miles from my house to downtown, then another hour looking for parking, which will probably be at a $20 parking garage (special high rate for SXSW!), then a very dangerous half mile schlepping my gear on a hand cart through the gang infested, post-apocalyptic wasteland of central Austin, AND, if everything works out as planned, I get to play....

 

20 MINUTES FOR FREE

 

Then, of course, I have to reverse the above steps in an attempt to return home safely with the gear I brought.

 

There will be hundreds of other bands doing the same each night. Yes, hundreds.

 

A platinum badge to attend the event is currently $1,225.

 

A music only badge is currently $750.

 

Terry D.

[toneforhire]

Anyone who exhorts musicians not to play for free or cheap is just pissing up a rope. Seriously! I have a South by Southwest (SXSW) show tonight. It will start with a hour crawl down the interstate to travel the 11 miles from my house to downtown, then another hour looking for parking, which will probably be at a $20 parking garage (special high rate for SXSW!), then a very dangerous half mile schlepping my gear on a hand cart through the gang infested, post-apocalyptic wasteland of central Austin, AND, if everything works out as planned, I get to play.... 20 MINUTES FOR FREE Then, of course, I have to reverse the above steps in an attempt to return home safely with the gear I brought. There will be hundreds of other bands doing the same each night. Yes, hundreds. A platinum badge to attend the event is currently $1,225. A music only badge is currently $750. Terry D.

 

 

er...and you are doing all this because???

[MrKnobs]

er...and you are doing all this because???

 

Because my musical partner wants to.

 

Terry D.

[RupertB]

Simple math sez a busy bar that holds 200 would have at least $4k in the safe at the end of the night - no?

If everybody pays cash.

We play one venue that, at the end of the night, has no cash deposit. Nearly everyone pays by CC or debit. Any cash they have is used to pay out servers' CC tips. We get a check. It has been years since they were able to cash it for us on the spot.

[Austincowbell]

Not really what point you are trying to make here.... The bar where we played yesterday rang $25,000. If 1/4 of that was cash it would be right around the same number. And... if a bar has $6500 in cash in it's safe after at least one day of operations what does that have to do with what I get paid? Do I know their liquor cost? Do I know their electric bills? $6500 in cash doesn't mean $6500 in profit, it just means $6500. $3000 might have been profit as easily as $500 of it being profit.

[V-Type]

A few bars around my work look like small going under dives but they make a lot of $$$ off check cashing and drink sales.

They commonly have $4000 -$10000 days/nights and generally keep a few thousand on hand at all times.

Also I can see a bar easily averaging a few thousand a night just in drink sales.

Im not much of a drinker yet when I go out too a bar or club Ill have between 4 -8 beers honestly and Im not a seasoned bar drinker like so many others I see are.

[twostone]

Let's see I go to Joe Mama's Club which holds a crowd of 50 and is one those {censored} hole sleazy gun and knife bars and I tell Jo hey dude I play here for a grand so wadda say:confused:

Every good paying bar I ever gigged at, all want credentials
There not gonna dish out a grand to any band that just walked in off from
the street claiming their the best band around. As Bluestrat posted, profit making bars do their home work.
It's why they stay in business.

I've seen a lot of changes since my fist gig back in 1978
The federal mandate of drinking age raised from 18 to 21 in 1984
Breathalyzers and tougher sobriety testing
Enforced sobriety check points esp during holidays
Raised sobriety point system forgot it use to be I think .10 now it's .08
Raised taxes on liquor and licensing fee's
Now there after smokers

The good old days of making a living playing clubs is gone
and I had to cut my hair and get a real job

[BlueStrat]

Anyone who exhorts musicians not to play for free or cheap is just pissing up a rope. Seriously!

 

 

Come on, Terry. You do realize that not everywhere operates the same way, do you not? There are still places that pay well, if cheap assed musicians would quit undercutting. Where you live people play for free because so many great players want to be there. Here, they do it because they aren't good enough or don't want to put in the time to get gigs. Those are two very different scenarios, and while it may be futile to fight yours, fighting mine is something I'm not willing to give up on.

[mikerol]

Many bars can't qualify for credit with their beer and liquor vendors, so it's "cash or no booze for you". Meaning, they have to have cash on hand to keep the place stocked. $6,500 isn't a ton of money.

[MrKnobs]

Come on, Terry. You do realize that not everywhere operates the same way, do you not? There are still places that pay well, if cheap assed musicians would quit undercutting. Where you live people play for free because so many great players want to be there. Here, they do it because they aren't good enough or don't want to put in the time to get gigs. Those are two very different scenarios, and while it may be futile to fight yours, fighting mine is something I'm not willing to give up on.

 

Fair enough.

 

Where I used to live (College Station), only the best local bands got gigs.

 

Where I live now, ANYONE gets a gig because they pay nothing. The clubowners want four bands a night to sell drinks to the bands and their friends. It's really just a catered party. Might as well be an open mic, there's no difference than I can tell.

 

The oddest thing is that you get some superb musician like Monte Montgomery (named the best living acoustic guitarist by Acoustic Guitar Magazine, and rightly so I think) and he pulls maybe 30 people at $10/head on a weeknight.

 

So, if you're a club owner and only interested in the bottom line, it's better to have four crappy bands than Monte.

 

Terry D.

 

P.S. Just got home from our SXSW "showcase." $750 for a music wristband, we had maybe 200 people packed in (actually applauding) and presumably drinking and we were paid.... nothing.

Gotta love SXSW!

[BlueStrat]

some superb musician like Monte Montgomery (named the best living acoustic guitarist by Acoustic Guitar Magazine, and rightly so I think)

Monte Montgomery =

[rhat]

P.S. Just got home from our SXSW "showcase." $750 for a music wristband, we had maybe 200 people packed in (actually applauding) and presumably drinking and we were paid.... nothing.
Gotta love SXSW!


Isnt sxsw kind of one of those getting your ticket punched kind of deals for texas bands,,, kinda like gruen hall? I dont know much about it. dont you have to be a pretty good group to even go showcase?