On stage attire, music stands, "Dad bands", etc...

[Vito Corleone]

I never said that. I have heard people describe a band they liked in strictly visual terms, though. Haven't you?

 

 

I've heard people say "the was the best concert I've ever seen", but I know they mean "heard and seen" or "attended". Is that what you mean? If so, that's just a poor choice of language.

 

Otherwise, no. I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about a band they like simply because they like the LOOK but don't care anything about the music.

 

But visual is definately part of any live performance. Are there any concerts you've attended where you'd have been satisfied simply to hear the musicians play live without being able to see them? Wouldn't you feel you were cheated if they were behind a curtain? That you didn't get your money's worth?

 

Sure---You may be so enamored with certain musicians that just watching them sit there in a dimly lit room and play their music is enough because you're just awed to be in their presence or, as a musician, it's just enough for you to watch their fingers at work. But those cats have already "engaged" you through the prior relationship between you and their music. Most bands at the cover band level don't really have that same history with their audiences, so simply "wow! I can't believe I'm actually seeing this person LIVE!" isn't really enough to sustain the visual portion of the performance.

[Vito Corleone]

I agree 100%. But saying people are "listening with their eyes" is obviously just an expression. In a nutshell it means the same thing as "using a big light show to compensate for less than stellar musicianship." Stellar musicianship comes second tier to a big production to the right crowd.

 

 

I understand you maybe can't afford a big expensive light show and sound system. And that is what it is and you have to work with what you've got and it seems you're doing well with that.

 

But...all things being equal...just because stellar musicianship comes second tier with some bands and some crowds doesn't mean it HAS to. Just because some other bands might get lazy and use that stuff as a crutch doesn't mean YOUR band has to. Why not provide BOTH?

 

I've put a lot of time and effort into having the best stage show I can. It's far from the biggest out there, but it's not the smallest either. But I've never, for a SECOND, considered using it as a "cover" for less-than-stellar musicianship. Our music is just as good (or bad) as it would be without the other stuff. The music doesn't take 2nd tier. Would the crowds care if it did and like us just as well because of all the other stuff going on? I don't know. I don't care. I don't plan on finding out. We're still going to go out and do what WE do as best we can every show.

[Lee Flier]

 

If 50 yr old Joe wants to play at his buddy's bar and he brings 8 of his college buddies and their wives out to see his "band" play...I couldn't care less. It doesn't bother me one bit that Joe just wants to get out of the basement and play his guitar in front of some people after taking it up in his mid 40s and learning some old songs. He's not out to make a living...just to have some fun. Let him wear shorts with socks and sandals and use chord charts and hack his leads. There is and always will be a market for that. Small neighborhood bars want to pay $200 for a band...that's what they get. It doesn't necessarily mean that Joe doesn't give a {censored} about the music. He's up there having the time of his life. Now...would I go see Joe's band? Nope. But who am I to say he should stay in his bedroom? I say have at it I don't give a crap. It doesn't upset me that he's out there having fun. To each their own.

 

 

Aha! No, on the surface there's nothing to be upset about. But in fact, it's this attitude that has caused many a local music scene to shoot itself in the foot.

 

Your key sentence is right here:

 

 

Now...would I go see Joe's band? Nope.

 

 

Right. And most people wouldn't, except for Joe's family and friends, who would all turn up for one night to support Joe in his moment of glory, the bar would sell lots of beer, and everybody'd be happy. Everybody except a random passerby who might wander into the bar and go "WTF? This sucks!" and leave. And of course, the lifeblood of any music scene is "random traffic." You can't build a following for your band by playing to just your family and friends - the only reason to play out is to have more people see you. People who might come see you again next time.

 

So, OK, Joe has his big night and it's fun, and the bar makes some money. But what happens when venues start adopting the policy, en masse, that they'll book anybody who can bring all their buddies in for a night, even if they aren't very good? And that, furthermore, the bar can pay such bands a lot less money, or nothing at all? Well, two things happen: 1) People stop coming to the bar over time because they don't trust the place to book anything decent (and the bar eventually loses business over the long term because venues can't do well on a hundred Joes' family and friends either), and 2) Music fans who are looking to hear some good local music start to lose choices and possibly even give up going out to see local live music altogether.

 

You say you wouldn't go see Joe's band - which is all well and good if you have other options. But if all the small venues in town are featuring nothing but an endless supply of Joes, because they think it makes short term economic sense and it's less work for them ... well, I have to think that would piss you off. And that is indeed what happens in many places. Joe doesn't have to be 50 - he could be 20 year old Joe College - but it's the same scenario. It was the driving force behind the "pay to play" scheme that developed in L.A. in the 1980s, and has been followed in many other cities since then.

 

Joe can play at open mic nights and similar events where the customers would know not to expect anything earth shattering. But nobody - not the musicians, not the fans and ultimately not the venues either - is being well served by featuring these kinds of acts as their main attraction. And yet more and more venues are doing just that.

[Lee Flier]

If you're all on the same page, you can make all the other stuff work. To a point, of course. Among the members of my band I've got people for whom they'll put every available second they have towards to band to others who do nothing more than just show up to rehearsals and gigs. That's fine. What I need is 100% out of everyone but not everybody as the same "100%". I accept that. That's just the difference between different human beings. Some people are leaders; some are followers. What I WON'T accept is less than anyone's individual "100%" though. If all you can do is make it to rehearsal and gigs--fine. But show up ready to go with all your parts learned.

+1000.

[TIMKEYS]

+1 to this. It's perfectly fine for the more experienced/knowledgeable members of this forum to point out various aspects of professionalism when it comes to bands/music. That's why most of us are here. But I don't much like the griping about OTHER bands who are "taking" gigs or "sucking" on stage or "undercutting" the market. Because my sentiment there is: "tough {censored}". Control what you can control , and if the market doesn't respond the way you hope/expect, oh well. Join the club of millions who are unemployed/under-employed.

 

 

Pretty much. I appreciate the guys who started playing in bands young, as I did. I also appreciate the guys who stuck it out and can come here with 30 out of the last 40 years playing in gigging bands. I can also appreciate the guys who dropped out and became couch players and backed burnered the band thing for longer than some of our posters have been alive. I am one of those guys. It a humbling experience to know that you were going to start in the basement again with guys who have never done a live paying show. Dad bands for the most part are get back in the game bands.

 

They are adults that are trying to get a band back together. Alot of them are not much better than they were when they were 17. Some of them were pretty damb good at 17. Some are not sure how good they are because they havent been playing with other people ,,they have been on couch because they were not in a band. When you go to a local 2 to 3 hundred dollar bar you are going to get dad bands. They need to play more to get better. So do you want to sit home and play more or go out and play and be on a stage. Why should you be pissed at these guys ,,the only difference between you and them in number of shows and experience.

 

it may well be that some guys just dont think they are ready to dress up for the show. I would agree with them. At some point they will move up a level or two and they will follow more of the band rules.

 

As a come back player, I feel my goal is to play as much as I can play with my bandmates. I need to catch up with all you guys who didnt drop out of the band thing. It did feel good to finally get Paid a 125 dollar split on a gig. It was a good feeling. That doesnt mean that I will stop from my main focus which is to play as much as I can with my bandmates. To meet that goal,, i will play for free. But only with my bandmates. I am in a unique position of being able to play with my bandmates live in a bar as much as I want,,, but thats basically bandpractice.

[Vito Corleone]

Lee, you're preaching something I've been preaching here for a long time:

For all the bitching about DJs, karaoke, and cheap clubowners bringing down the live music scene, I think a BIG part of it falls on the bands themselves. The world has evolved greatly in the last few decades but most bands are still content to try and deliver what is essentially a 1950s-level entertainment act for 2010s audiences. It's not enough to just show up with a few guitars and a drumset and a singer and think anyone is going to be impressed enough to stay for a couple of hours and drop 50 bucks on the bar anymore. Bands have to really start thinking about what they can do to compete with the gazillion entertainment choices available to people and work on upping their game. If enough bands were putting on good enough shows to warrant people parting with their hard-earned money, the Joe bands and bars that hire them wouldn't even figure into the equation. There's ALWAYS been podunk bars with podunk bands.

The problem is that too many bands seem to think that being podunk is good enough.

You are right that the complaints about these things are just representative of bigger issues. None of them, in and of themselves, mean anything:

When I was starting up playing back in the 70s and 80s no one would have even CONSIDERED going up on stage with a music stand, or without dressing for stage. It just wasn't done. It just wasn't ROCK. How did we regress to the point where we even HAVE such discussions? Sure, nobody is going to walk out on your band if you have a music stand on stage, but is THAT the level we've sunk to? As long as nobody walks out, then it's OK to do it?

And people wonder why nobody wants to go see live music anymore?

[Lee Flier]

 

There's ALWAYS been podunk bars with podunk bands.

 

 

Yes, and again that was all fine and good so long as that mentality didn't creep into the better venues where audiences expected something better. But it has.

 

 

The problem is that too many bands seem to think that being podunk is good enough.

 

 

Well... because as long as they can get 50 of their friends to show up for one night, it IS. And for sure there's an endless supply of people who want to be a rockstar for a night and can get 50 people to come out and drink and support them. Once. Maybe once a year. But no more than that. The next night it's gotta be a different "Joe" for the venue to keep making money.

 

But if venues want to pack the house night after night, they can't hire those bands. Fans will stop trusting them and stop coming, and Joe's supporters are not going to come back to the venue to see Bob's band, whom they don't know and who probably are just as bad as Joe's band. There are some venues who still understand this, but not too many.

[Vito Corleone]

Yes, and again that was all fine and good so long as that mentality didn't creep into the better venues where audiences expected something better. But it has.

 

 

Yep. But again, I largely blame the bands. Bands stopped GIVING the audiences something better (partly because we went through that period in the 90s and 00s where being the "anti-rockstar" was what was cool) and bar owners started realizing they could make decent money with "alternative" acts. Whether that be karaoke, or Joe's dad band and his friends and family.

 

And yeah....the clubowners don't think long term---but when have they ever? No, it's the BANDS who are the ones in the entertainment business. So WE need to be the ones who ENTERTAIN. It's like bands are waiting for a clubowner to come along and say "if you guys do X & Y, I'll pay you Z". It doesn't work that way. The BANDS need to figure out what X & Y is and DO it, and the Z will eventually follow.

[Lee Flier]

 

Yep. But again, I largely blame the bands. Bands stopped GIVING the audiences something better (partly because we went through that period in the 90s and 00s where being the "anti-rockstar" was what was cool) and bar owners started realizing they could make decent money with "alternative" acts. Whether that be karaoke, or Joe's dad band and his friends and family.

 

 

I don't quite see it that way because I saw the decline of the L.A. music scene in the 80s with pay to play, and that trend has more or less spread all over the country. Joe's band is really just "pay to play" without (usually) the up front ticket sales - it's still booking whoever can bring in their own crowd in the short term.

 

Bands can totally kill it and knock themselves out putting on a great show, but for whom? If nobody goes to the venue, nobody's going to know you're good, except your family and friends, and they're not going to come to every gig.

 

 

And yeah....the clubowners don't think long term---but when have they ever?

 

 

Actually, many of them used to, prior to the late 80s or so (and a little longer in some places). Venues would advertise, and they would only book bands who were good, and fans realized this and would go hang out at the venue a couple of nights a week no matter whether they'd heard of the band or not, because they knew the odds were good that the band wouldn't suck. There are still some places like this scattered around, but it's hard to find them anymore and many music fans don't even realize they exist.

[Vito Corleone]

Bands can totally kill it and knock themselves out putting on a great show, but for whom? If nobody goes to the venue, nobody's going to know you're good, except your family and friends, and they're not going to come to every gig.

 

 

Then maybe they aren't killing it in the way it needs to be killed these days. You talk about how it used to be prior to the late 80s, but you forget how it GOT to the point. It was the BANDS who built the scene and those venues. The venues sprung up to meet the demand for people wanting to go see live bands.

 

We're at the bottom of the scene, IMO, and the whole thing needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. I refuse to believe there is no appetite for live entertainment and for live entertainment based around music. But what I CAN believe is that nobody in 2011 is much interested in an entertainment model that was essentially built by Bill Haley and Elvis. Musicians have to come up with something new. Something involving newer technologies....probably something interactive....I dunno. I'm an old guy. I'm not in the game anymore. I have no desire or energy to re-invent the wheel. But if I was 20 years old and itching to entertain people with my talents like I was when I WAS 20, I'm pretty sure I'd be just as hungry and as willing to work hard as I was then. And back then I worked on being bigger and badder than everybody else. Because that's what drew the crowds.

 

It's going to be something different now than just a couple of guitars with big loud amps and flashing lights. It's up to the kids to figure out what "that" is.

 

And when they do, there will no doubt be plently of people willing to open up nightclubs to make money off the live entertainment.

[MartinC]

I'm probably going to take some flack, but so be it. I've been gigging since 1977, and for a very long time, wanted to do nothing else. But for the last five years or so, I really don't give a crap if I get a call or not. I'm not going to go so far as to say I'd rather never do another gig, because I have fun when it happens.

Last night I did a great gig, got paid a butt ton of money, and played for some big league celebs. And I have to confess, I did none of what Lee says I should have done. No rehearsal, no prep, no fancy cool clothes. In fact, I had not removed my guitar from the case for probably two weeks before the gig. I thought about doing so, but didn't.

The closest I came to regret was when we took an extra ten minutes on a break and drew the ire of the planner. But at the same time, we played outside in freezing weather with no heater despite the guests having a beavy of heaters, with no complaint, and we also played for more than 2 1/2 hours of the three hour call. The clients were clearly happy with the performance.

I truly enjoyed the music we played and the fellowship of my bandmates, and I gave it my absolute all the entire gig, but I also realize I could have, and in the past would have, done a lot more prep for this type of gig. As far as playing in the basement, I do that sometimes, but it's really not up to anyone but me if that's where it ends. The day when another group gets the call to play that gig, fine with me. But as long as someone is happy to part with that kind of money for me to play my guitar with my bandmates, I'm taking it. After more than thirty years, I think I can make that call without any sort of guilt or apology whatsoever.

[rangefinder]

C'mon, dudes... local music scenes suck because of... cargo shorts and music stands????? And we, all of us, can bring it back with... better light shows?????

 

There are many broader economic and demographic factors involved, and it's actually possible that live music venues are behaving perfectly rationally in the face of a near-devastating economic environment over the past 10 years.

 

Again, all you can do is put on the best show YOU can put on, and if the market doesn't cooperate, find something else to do. But don't bother blaming Dad bands on the way out. Because it's not their fault -- maybe a little bit, but something else would be filling that void anyway.

[Vito Corleone]

C'mon, dudes... local music scenes suck because of... cargo shorts and music stands????? And we, all of us, can bring it back with... better light shows?????

 

 

No. Those are only metaphors.

 

The real meaning is cargo shorts & music stands=old tired performances and entertainment attitudes based on a decades-old model. Light shows=looking for ways to entertain people beyond "listen to how good my solo on 'Pride and Joy' is!"

 

30 years ago what were the options a twenty-something had on a Saturday Night? Go to a movie? Stay at home and watch SNL or HBO? Talk on the phone with a friend? Get in your car and cruise and listen to your cassette deck? Go see a live band?

 

Heck, the VCR wasn't even a common device yet. Home video games weren't much beyond Pong on your Atari.

 

Now look where we've come and the entertainment options people have. Not only is "go see a live band" only one of DOZENS of viable entertainment options, it is one that isn't much different than it was 30 years ago.

 

And instead of looking for ways to make live music performance bigger, better, different and MORE entertaining than it was in 1981, I mostly only see excuses for why it's OK for it to be actually LAMER than it was back then.

[mr3lions]

The funny thing is that the bar never does it so I end up doing it before the 2nd set starts since the first set is still "dinner" there and the staff never remembers to shut them off. We've been something of a house band there since the 1990's so I don't complain too much. It's always fun and the pay is decent for the area.

Little late getting back to this post but it reminds me of a gig we once played during a late dinner crowd. I turned around to fix my amp as a song started, noticed a tv playing and like a 5 year old watching cartoons, just got completely engrossed. My autopilot kicked in and after a couple of verses I remembered my harmony back-ups for the chorus. I turned to see a table of hot girls laughing at me pulling the same "mouth open, deer in headlight gaze" I was displaying while watching the tv.

[guitarguy19]

I understand you maybe can't afford a big expensive light show and sound system. And that is what it is and you have to work with what you've got and it seems you're doing well with that. But...all things being equal...just because stellar musicianship comes second tier with some bands and some crowds doesn't mean it HAS to. Just because some other bands might get lazy and use that stuff as a crutch doesn't mean YOUR band has to. Why not provide BOTH? I've put a lot of time and effort into having the best stage show I can. It's far from the biggest out there, but it's not the smallest either. But I've never, for a SECOND, considered using it as a "cover" for less-than-stellar musicianship. Our music is just as good (or bad) as it would be without the other stuff. The music doesn't take 2nd tier. Would the crowds care if it did and like us just as well because of all the other stuff going on? I don't know. I don't care. I don't plan on finding out. We're still going to go out and do what WE do as best we can every show.

I agree 100%. In the future depending on the direction we head, I'm not opposed to expanding our show. But then we run into transport and setup time which is tight with our day jobs, etc. Lots to consider. But right now between our casino gigs and the club gigs with all that built in, we don't really need to worry about it that much.

And for the record, we have a very solid sound system...maybe not the absolute beat out there, but definitely higher end. That we did spend some money on...priority over the lights.

[JohnMCA72]

... Am I on target here?

 

 

I think so. I'll add that there's something I see & hear a lot of, & that's the attitude that "It's all about the music", as if nothing else (i.e. presentation) matters. Apparently, since music is the manipulation of sound, only sound matters to many people.

 

I think that, if we're going to get out of our basements, garages, etc. & play in public, in front of people, that we owe it to them to be entertaining. If we're going to expect people to pay a cover charge (or not), or at least give up some of their precious time, expend energy on the dance floor, show us appreciation, etc., we owe it to them to be worth it.

 

Ever been to a titty bar? What goes on there? Does a girl come out on stage, stand stock-still with her top off, & stare at the back wall? Not for very long, if they expect to go far in that business! They move; they dance; they wear costumes; they assume character roles; they make eye contact; they engage the audience! There's a lot more to it than just showing their tits, just like there's a lot more to music than just playing notes!

 

Ever been to a play or watch a movie? What happens? Do the "actors" just stand there & recite lines? Ever see an "actor" stand on a stage, reading from a written script (with or without a music stand)? No, what you see is "acting". They modify their voice with tone & level; they "act"; they move; they gesture; they become their character for the duration of their performance.

 

Ever watch a magician? Standing there doing "tricks" gets old in a hurry, especially for the audience. It's not just "what card is it?", it's a show. They bring the audience into it, get them engaged & committed. Everybody knows it's a "trick", but the showmanship makes it fun.

 

Every other category of entertainer expects to actualy entertain. It's only musicians who seem to expect not to.

[StratGuy22]

You seriously don't expect me to read all that...

[TIMKEYS]

A picture is worth a thousand words. I saw a band picture a friend our ours took of us on stage with me in this sleeveless t shirt. OMG lets just say the camara angle was not flattering lol. I have another picture in the same thing at another angle. Its a picture I like I dont wear those kind of shirts anymore because I know that camara angle is out there. I had some serious larry the cable guy going on. LOL.

[wheresgrant3]

The fact is if you aren't going to do the work then you aren't likely to see the results you seek. That simple. If you are a 'great band' but aren't willing to make the sacrifices and work it takes to be successful then you aren't set to experience that success. I've seen this attitude prevalent on my own music scene. Band gets popular, puts alot into the setlist, performance and show. Other musicians go see them and immediately comment "They aren't so great... we're better than these guys. Why do people like them so much". There could be a variety of reasons why certain bands draw... but one thing is certain: a {censored}ty band, with poor presentation doesn't usually draw beyond family and friends. Therefore a band that is drawing is doing something right.

The bands I find most frustrating (to be honest) and the bands with the better talent that really can't get things together to be more successful. Many are filled with great musicians the bands just lack clear leadership. They will limp along copying more successful bands setlists, or fill the setlist with songs they loved to play 20 years ago(audience gets little consideration). Many have musicians that think highly of themselves, and will roll into a tiny {censored}hole bars with $boutique$ equipment, yet be playing thru an 8 channel head powered mixer and low budget PA speakers. Others are bringing in the PA they used to tour with in the 90's, which was meant for small arenas with green rooms. They are loud, ring up big bar tabs and feel they deserve alot more money for the 22 people they played for that night. The successful bands in the area 'suck... play {censored} music, and are only successful because they gotten good breaks or have known the right people. In their mind it has nothing to do with hard work, planning, and commitment. Certainly nothing to do with musicianship. How could that be... everyone in these successful bands are 'hacks'.

I've come into contact with quite a few bands over the years that have existed to feed their own egos. Many are leftovers musicians from the 80's and 90's that had a chance or tasted some success in the originals space, but have aged on and are now playing covers. They are from a different era, when bands were 'mysterious' and there was a definite boundary between the fans and the bands. These musicians developed 'show' personalities, keep resumes full of ever long biographies of the multiple projects and musicians they were involved with. I mean does anyone really care that you were in the band 'Cellblock 16' for 7 months and shopped a demo to Max Norman in 1991... in 2011? While I feel guilt over the implosion of the original scene here there are quite a few 'Steel Dragon' leftovers who even in their mid-40's dress like they are ready to play an A&R Showcase. I've have some of these guys in my own band at some point(one bandmate no longer with us yelled at a soundguy "Do you know who we are...??? we're a REGIONAL touring act!!!" Yeah... do you have to guess why he's not with us.)

So while there are some sub quality bands out there that aren't really fit for the larger stages, that come cheap and don't really have the time or motivation to do anything more than a straight hobby level... there is also a large set of complainers that are talented, but in it for themselves. They feel that people come to see them perform and not because of the time or scene they want to experience. They feel underappreciated and underpaid even though they're value isn't measured on their talent, it's measured on how much they make their local club owners.

One guy recently lamented to me that he was 'Local Rock Royalty' and that his band deserved to play a particular venue (after they were 'shut out' due to draw)because they were 'that good'. I politely explained that 'good' and 'popular' are not one in the same, and are not interchangeable. These days 'popular' pays the bills.

[Shamdog]

FYI - The absolute best agency coverband in my area...Wears shorts and has no light show of their own.

They play up and down the east coast, from the Maryland shore to Connecticut, and get $2k+ per show. Booked at least 3 days a week, usually 4, and quite ofter 2 shows a day in the summer. Their PA is 2 Yamaha clubs and 2 Yamaha subs. The bass player mixes the sound (out front) for the first couple of songs whill someone subs for him on bass. Then he joins the group on stage, and I don't think they change much for the rest of the show.

Goddam best band ever.

[SeniorBlues]

 

FYI - The absolute best agency coverband in my area...Wears shorts and has no light show of their own. They play up and down the east coast, from the Maryland shore to Connecticut, and get $2k+ per show. Booked at least 3 days a week, usually 4, and quite ofter 2 shows a day in the summer. Their PA is 2 Yamaha clubs and 2 Yamaha subs. The bass player mixes the sound (out front) for the first couple of songs whill someone subs for him on bass. Then he joins the group on stage, and I don't think they change much for the rest of the show. Goddam best band ever.

 

 

Interesting . . . . What makes them "good"?

 

Ages? Genre(s)? Links?

[Yer Blues]

Interesting . . . . What makes them "good"? Ages? Genre(s)? Links?

He told you they get paid $2k+ per show.

[Yer Blues]

Last night I did a great gig, got paid a butt ton of money, and played for some big league celebs. And I have to confess, I did none of what Lee says I should have done. No rehearsal, no prep, no fancy cool clothes. In fact, I had not removed my guitar from the case for probably two weeks before the gig. I thought about doing so, but didn't.

 

 

What is it like playing a gig after not playing for two weeks? Are your chops still there? As I get older the one thing I notice is my fingers aren't getting much better, but my ears are getting a lot better. Often, my fingers can't play what my mind wants it to.

[Shamdog]

Interesting . . . . What makes them "good"? Ages? Genre(s)? Links?

 

 

These guys bring a "SHOW". Shorty is almost 4 feet high, which is a bit of their gimick. Him and the bass player cut each other up, joke and basically horse around. They have a horn section (The Jersey Horns), and the Sax guy is from Southside Johnny.

 

Oh, and they can PLAY. It's all covers/dance/pop music, and the dance floor is full from start to finish. No one can touch them.

 

And, when Shorty drives around in the crowd in his motorized car (a converted Barbie kids car, dressed up for whatever season it is), with a wireless mic and keyboard, the crowd goes wild!!!!!

 

Disclaimer - No, I'm not in this band, but I do take guitar lessons from the bass player. This is the nicest bunch of guys ever.

 

Here's some links:

 

https://www.facebook.com/shortylongrocks

 

http://shortylongrocks.com/

 

Oh, ages range from 40 to 20yrs old

[guitarguy19]

So, OK, Joe has his big night and it's fun, and the bar makes some money. But what happens when venues start adopting the policy, en masse, that they'll book anybody who can bring all their buddies in for a night, even if they aren't very good? And that, furthermore, the bar can pay such bands a lot less money, or nothing at all? Well, two things happen: 1) People stop coming to the bar over time because they don't trust the place to book anything decent (and the bar eventually loses business over the long term because venues can't do well on a hundred Joes' family and friends either), and 2) Music fans who are looking to hear some good local music start to lose choices and possibly even give up going out to see local live music altogether. You say you wouldn't go see Joe's band - which is all well and good if you have other options. But if all the small venues in town are featuring nothing but an endless supply of Joes, because they think it makes short term economic sense and it's less work for them ... well, I have to think that would piss you off. Joe can play at open mic nights and similar events where the customers would know not to expect anything earth shattering . But nobody - not the musicians, not the fans and ultimately not the venues either - is being well served by featuring these kinds of acts as their main attraction. And yet more and more venues are doing just that.

 

 

This is obviously already happening, and people already know what to expect when they walk in these places. In this area anyway, these places are in {censored}ty locations and don't really get much 'passer by' traffic at all, if any. The people that go there know the owner and probably know Joe and the Stanks personally, and if not then they know some similarly cruddy band is "rocking" the stage.

 

That's what differentiates the 'classes' of clubs. There are the bars where you know that the bands generally aren't very good, and there are the bars where you know you're going to see a good band whenever you walk in the door. Granted I was only 5 at the end of the 80s...but I suspect there have always been hack clubs and hack bands, and there always will be.

 

Now, are there more clubs taking the route now that doesn't cost them anything to get "entertainment?" Yup. Does that suck? Yup. Is it something to get pissed about? Nope. That's just the way things are. Just like many other things in our society, it's a sad and slow degradation, just like people's morals, respect for others, since of entitlement, greed, violence, political agendas, and on and on and on AND ON. But there a LOT of underlying factors. You can't solely blame Joe for wanting to get out of his basement for whatever underlying reason he has for doing it, or the sleazy bar owner for wanting to make a buck with zero risk, or people's attitudes (like mine) that are very cynical and I just don't care much about things I can't control. Do they see the big picture? Nope. How many bars of this type are just ran into the ground??? LOTS!! Most people don't think more than 1 or 2 steps ahead of NOW at best. But people are going to do what they're going to do. Period. And I don't waste minutes of my life worrying about what other dip {censored}s are doing with their time. What-the-f-ever.

 

What I'd like to know is what solutions are there really? Honest question. Bar owner can't afford to hire a good band, becuase he has no customers, because his bar is in an area in a dumpy town where nobody has any disposable income and becuase he's soiled his rep to those that do, but if he stops hiring Joe and the Stanks, he won't even have Joe's 8 buddies in there drinking cheap whiskey, and he'll be closing the doors because without that he's got literally nothing to offer.